Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[Sixties Fan]

You are forcing me to argue the other side here by your application of false equivalence, namely apartheid comparisons. Let’s consider that...

We have three areas under consideration, 4 actually...and we have multiple systems of law in play: PA, Israeli civil law, Israeli military law. PA law is in effect in areas controlled by Palestinians, Military law is used on Palestinians in Israeli controlled areas while Israeli civil is in effect on Israelis in those same territories (which in itself creates serious injustices) and Israel itself where Israeli civil law is in effect. There is also a difference in the law itself and then the actions of civil authorities and society in how they choose to apply it. To claim apartheid you need to show the laws that support it.

Apartheid created, by law, a completely segregated society in which blacks had legally imposed redirected rights, could only live in deceptively named and resource poor “homelands” and were subject to laws that enforced seperation and inferior status. In Israel itself what laws do that?

The law in this topic only states that Jews can expertise the right of self determination IN Israel. That means others can’t create a seperate state within Israel as part of self determination, if iI understand it correctly. It doesn’t seem like it would effect non Jews much, especially since they removed the settlement part. But I am a little uneasy...I think we will have to see how this plays out in civil society. It is not apartheid however. Arab Israelis are not being moved to Bantustans.

That's pretty amazing. No, I do not "force" you to do anything other than to defend your "Agree", or drop it, as I think you should. And no, we do not have to consider four areas, as in the context of the basic law we have just one area, that is, the region within which that basic law is in force. Moreover, apartheid at the core is a state that creates two different sets of laws to privilege one group over another. How that plays out in detail is subject to national differences and flavors. You do an admirable job of digging up evidence of the Israeli state systematically depriving Arabs of educational opportunity by systematic underfunding of their schools. That's the bantustan right there.

Finally, there is no "false equivalence", and, once again, I ask:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of South Africa is unique to White South Africans."

Acceptable? How about this:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Germany is unique to Aryan Germans."

This is not equating Israel to Nazi Germany - that would be preposterous. It's just to point out what an atrocity this basic law actually is.

National self-determination either includes all citizens, or it creates an apartheid state. There is no third. The exclusion of Arabs from national self-determination - which should be the right of all citizens (as it is the right of all citizens of EU member states) - may well be a frontal assault on Arab voting rights, for that is how national self-determination usually, mainly plays out. It is also, in conjunction with "the development of Jewish settlement", a recipe for more rigorously discriminatory housing and land use, and more and more rigorous discrimination against Arab settlements. It is, most notably an assault on the 2000 Ka'adan ruling, which struck down long-standing discriminatory housing and land use policies. Under the current basic law, that ruling is obsolete, and with that, the creation of segregated communities became much easier and it would no longer be subject to successful challenges. See this for a primer:

The purpose of the Admissions Committees Law is no secret in Israel. Fifteen years earlier, on March 8th, 2000, the Supreme Court issued a major ruling that the town of Katzir, built on state land by the Jewish Agency, could not deny the right of the Arab Ka'adan family to live in the town simply on the basis that they were not Jewish. This was the first time that Palestinian citizens of Israel, a fifth of the state's population, successfully challenged the legality of "Jewish-only" communities, many of which, though small, were strategically located to prevent the expansion of Palestinian towns and had bylaws that forbade the leasing of property to non-Jews, though built on confiscated Palestinian lands.​

The monumental outrage over this ruling was a harbinger of things to come.

This basic law has nothing to do with forbidding the creation of a separate state within Israel, it just excludes Arabs (non-Jews) from the right of self-determination. They shall have no influence on the government that serves them, and, in that light, Arab Israelis aren't even citizens in the definition usually applied in Western democracies.

It's sure to get worse. Once the discrimination increases, and legal challenges to it are sure to become ever more pointless as that basic law filters through the court system and the re-interpretation of law, what's left to counter it?

Total Ooee

Arab Muslims have control of 80 % of the Mandate for Palestine.
78% are in the hands of the Hashemite Arabs.
Gaza is in the hands of Muslim Arabs

Within Israel, of course there will be no Second State which will become independent of what is left for the Jews. ISRAEL.

Arab Muslims and Christians who have chosen to become citizens of Israel ARE citizens of Israel. They do have political representation in the Knesset.

The issue would be with those politicians and not with Israel, as those Muslim politicians can only think of undermining the State of Israel in order to some day the State of Israel would cease to exist.

It is called having a fifth column in one's country, where they work very hard, not for the country, but its enemies.

NO. There will not ever be a "second State, an Arab Muslim one" INSIDE ISRAEL, anymore than there will ever be a Confederate States of America within America.

This information gets in the way of you and others cheering for the day Israel will be destroyed?

Too bad.

 

[Shusha]

Interesting comment...

"when Israel is held to a different standard than other comparable countries" - When Team Israel holds Israel to a different standard it seems to be acceptable and, when you read through the multitude of comments here that is EXACTLY what Team Israel does...

I mean, seriously, how many other countries/peoples were chosen by 'god'? How many other people consider themselves the 'chosen ones'?

It is this arrogance, this blind faith (faith being another word for ignorance) that is used time and again by Team Israel to try and differentiate themselves from the rest of humanity!

The arrogance and the hypocrisy is astonishing!

The basis for Israel's self-determination is historical and cultural, like any other national group. While religious ideas form a part of culture, they are not the primary basis for Israel's self-determination or sovereignty.

Furthermore, no outsider has any right to judge the cultural or religious foundation for anyone's national self-determination and sovereignty. It is SELF-determined. That is the whole point.

And, in fact, regular posters on Team Israel do not use "choseness" as a primary argument for Israel's existence or right to exist. The most prominent posters on TI (myself, Rocco, Sixties, rylah) to my recollection have never brought it up. I have occasionally seen religious foundation arguments from some of TI's secondary posters, but not often, and not usually in the context of choseness.

The idea of" choseness is not originating with us -- it is PUT ON US by others. (This thread is an example. Who brought up choseness? Not any one of us.) It is used as a tool to demonize the Jewish people, reject the self-determination of the Jewish people, make the self-actualization of the Jewish people a separation from humanity.

The NORM in the world at this time is the inherent, inviolable right to self-determination for cultural groups. Anything which tries to undermine that in the Jewish people is a double standard.

 

[Shusha]

We do that often with the Palestinians as well as to how their future state would be Jew free or governed.

No we don't. For starters, their future state is ALREADY Jew-free.

I have seen multiple claims by those claiming no Jews would be allowed in a Palestinian State. That is as much speculation and demonizing as speculating Israel’s new law will lead to greater discrimination. We don’t know what a Palestinian State will bring or what eventual constitution will be decided upon.

But we do know what exists now. The future state is ALREADY Jew-free and the intent to keep it that way is well-vocalized by the current governments of Palestine. And both governments have constitutions which articulate these concepts -- such as death or hard labor for those who sell property to "enemies".

The double standard is operating here. There is no uproar when Palestine and Gaza announce their self-determination for the ARAB people within the greater ARAB nation, with ARABIC language and ARABIC (Muslim) religion and the Temple Mount and Cave of the Patriarchs being (solely) ARAB (Muslim) holy sites. But when the Jewish people do it...suddenly its discrimination and apartheid and Nazism.

 

[Shusha]

Arab Israelis aren't even citizens in the definition usually applied in Western democracies.

THAT is a wild statement. Defend with facts.

 

[Shusha]

National self-determination either includes all citizens, or it creates an apartheid state.

So, any State which names a specific ethnic or cultural group in its constitution is an apartheid state? Slovenia is an apartheid State because it mentions that its purpose is the self-determination of the Slovene people?

(Slovenia is, btw, about 15% non-Slovene)

 

[flacaltenn]

National self-determination either includes all citizens, or it creates an apartheid state.

So, any State which names a specific ethnic or cultural group in its constitution is an apartheid state? Slovenia is an apartheid State because it mentions that its purpose is the self-determination of the Slovene people?

(Slovenia is, btw, about 15% non-Slovene)

I can understand the statement from THIS POV -- which I have not seen skimming this thread.

But first, let's get RID of this apartheid herring. The VAST majority of Palestinians do NOT want be citizens. Do not WANT to live under Israeli law. That's not apartheid. It's resistance. And they're welcome to the struggle. And in most ways I SUPPORT any amount of autonomy that Palis can organize. Truth is -- They suck at organizing a central govt. And that's why they are where they are.

Also --- Arab political parties candidates got nearly 450,000 votes in the 2015 national elections. THESE folks WANT to be Israeli citizens. They have 18 current seats in the Knesset and the 3rd largest caucus or faction in Israeli politics. Again --- that is NOT an Apartheid state.


--->
So -- why the declaration? It's not a notice of imminent cleansing. NOT a declaration of superiority in numbers. The way I see it -- they are simply stating that Israel will be a sanctuary for world Jewry under persecution. It's more of a IMMIGRATION statement and DEMOGRAPHICS statement then anything sinister or exclusive.

Because there are assimilation and immigration issues THERE as well as most of the rest of world. Look at the 2 links below. Arab participation in the govt of Israel is increasing over the years. I don't think that's seen a threat. Because A LOT of Arab Bedouins, Druze, Christians even Sunni Muslims are HEROES to Israelis. The Bedouins in particular. They serve in the IDF and are irreplaceable for the missions and posts that they staff.

List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia AND

Joint List - Wikipedia

2015 elections
Main article: Israeli legislative election, 2015
The Joint List won 13 seats in the 2015 Knesset elections with 10.6% of the total vote, becoming the third-largest party in the 20th Knesset.[22] Odeh stated that he intended for the alliance to work on shared issues with center-left Jewish opposition parties and seek membership of key parliamentary committees.[23]

One of the party's first actions after the elections was to trade the two seats that, as the third-largest faction, it was entitled to on the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee for two more seats on the Finance Committee, primarily to better address its constituents' financial and housing concerns.[24]

 

[USAF 2023]

Sure. Let's demonize an entire peoples because of what you imagine they might do in the future. Seems fair. /sarcasm

I'm not demonizing anyone... Certainly not "an entire peoples"!

There in lies a common issue with Team Israel...

The distinction between people and politics!

My critisizing Israeli politics and policies does not, as you might claim, make me antisemetic!

What makes you antisemitic is that demonizing is all you do.

Oh dear, another retarded liar zionut!

Show me one post where I demonize Jews

You don’t, it is just another attempt to derail the thread into personal attacks. Ignore it.

Criticizing Israeli policy is not anti Semitic, I think some tend to use it as a means of stifling opposition. When it becomes potentially anti Semitic, imo, is when Israel is held to a different standard than other comparable countries or it turns in to a conversation on “the Jews”. Recognizing the rights and grievances of minorities or the Palestinians is not anti Semitic.

Israel is different in some ways in that it is in the midst of an unresolved territorial conflict, a capital claimed two peoples, mixed indiginous populations, territory populated by a stateless population with diminished rights, a it is the only nation I am aware of who’s right to even exist is still being argued generations later.

Interesting comment...

"when Israel is held to a different standard than other comparable countries" - When Team Israel holds Israel to a different standard it seems to be acceptable and, when you read through the multitude of comments here that is EXACTLY what Team Israel does...

I mean, seriously, how many other countries/peoples were chosen by 'god'? How many other people consider themselves the 'chosen ones'?

It is this arrogance, this blind faith (faith being another word for ignorance) that is used time and again by Team Israel to try and differentiate themselves from the rest of humanity!

The arrogance and the hypocrisy is astonishing!

How many Jewish people do you know who walks around saying they were” chosen?” Many other religions feel the same way..,,,,

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I'm not demonizing anyone... Certainly not "an entire peoples"!

There in lies a common issue with Team Israel...

The distinction between people and politics!

My critisizing Israeli politics and policies does not, as you might claim, make me antisemetic!

What makes you antisemitic is that demonizing is all you do.

Oh dear, another retarded liar zionut!

Show me one post where I demonize Jews

You don’t, it is just another attempt to derail the thread into personal attacks. Ignore it.

Criticizing Israeli policy is not anti Semitic, I think some tend to use it as a means of stifling opposition. When it becomes potentially anti Semitic, imo, is when Israel is held to a different standard than other comparable countries or it turns in to a conversation on “the Jews”. Recognizing the rights and grievances of minorities or the Palestinians is not anti Semitic.

Israel is different in some ways in that it is in the midst of an unresolved territorial conflict, a capital claimed two peoples, mixed indiginous populations, territory populated by a stateless population with diminished rights, a it is the only nation I am aware of who’s right to even exist is still being argued generations later.

Interesting comment...

"when Israel is held to a different standard than other comparable countries" - When Team Israel holds Israel to a different standard it seems to be acceptable and, when you read through the multitude of comments here that is EXACTLY what Team Israel does...

I mean, seriously, how many other countries/peoples were chosen by 'god'? How many other people consider themselves the 'chosen ones'?

It is this arrogance, this blind faith (faith being another word for ignorance) that is used time and again by Team Israel to try and differentiate themselves from the rest of humanity!

The arrogance and the hypocrisy is astonishing!

How many Jewish people do you know who walks around saying they were” chosen?” Many other religions feel the same way..,,,,

"So, God, why did you choose US to have to put up with all this antisemitic bull shit?!"

 

[Shusha]

Re: Education

The problem with some discussions on this board is how quickly most will read one article and then jump on the !Apartheid! bandwagon. (I appreciate you, Coyote because you don't).

The education system, and its funding, in Israel is complex. A few points:

1. The Ministry of Education does not make this information publicly available in usable form. It has to be extrapolated from various different documents, which creates all sorts of issues with understanding the information and selecting data.

2. Funding for education comes from a variety of sources. There are government-funded official schools, government-funded, registered but unofficial schools, municipal-funded schools and privately funded schools. In addition, there are refundable tuition payments, non-refundable tuition payments, expenses charged to parents, and contributions from various philanthropist groups. So when we are discussing inequality in funding, which funding do we mean?

3. There are other complex issues at play here, aside from the conflict itself -- physical issues like overcrowding in places where there are no more buildings or land to build new schools, such as the Old City; transportation issues, buildings in need of renovation, etc.

4. There are cultural issues like competing curricula and a resistance to the "other" curricula, the importance of employment over education, gender issues, etc. Two examples: 1. The Arab Druze, until recently, had a cultural leaning for its young people towards IDF careers for various cultural reasons. Within the past five-ten years, this has shifted to a drive for higher education, resulting in a drive for improvement in education at all grade levels. This has been remarkably successful. The best school in Israel is a Druze school with, if I remember correctly, ~75% of its students receiving honors marks (compared to an average of ~10% in Jewish schools). 2. There has been an historic gap in matriculation results between Arabs and Jews (its largely closed in the past five years, but has been an historic problem). Arabs both took and passed the matriculation exams with far less frequency than their Jewish counterparts. Matriculation certificates are necessary to attend post-secondary institutions. !Apartheid! Well, wait. The matriculation exams are based on a specific curriculum -- a curriculum that the Arab population in Israel rejects for cultural reasons. Israel could force them to take the Israel curriculum but then, !Apartheid! again.

5. The outcomes of Arab and Jewish students education are virtually identical in 2018, if one adjusts for socioeconomic status. Low-income Jews and low-income Arabs perform equally in all measurements regarding education. As do middle-income and high-income groups.

6. Government funding is provided to all schools on a per-pupil and a per-classroom basis. All pupils receive the same funding and all classrooms receive the same funding. That's the base funding formula and accounts for 90% of the funding of government schools The disparities often come up in deciding the "top-ups" for various reasons in various communities. Israel tops-up lower income schools, for example. Or schools in needs of new classrooms or expansions, etc. These are complex decisions, and if like most nations, there is never enough budget money to go around.

7. Municipal funding is determined by the municipality government. Those governments tend to be Arab in predominately Arab communities and Jewish in predominately Jewish communities. Arab governments tend to allocate fewer resources to education, broadly speaking, than Jewish ones do.

8. As far as I can tell, if you look at the data in the studies many of these articles are built around, they quote only the statistics which make Israel look discriminatory. They quote that Jewish students receive, as example, 20,000 NIS per student, while Arabs receive 16,000 NIS. But that is only for one segment of the population. In the other segments the budget is comparable, and in one Arabs receive MORE funding. These data also are based on TOTAL funding and not government or municipal funding, so claims that this is deliberate institutionalized discrimination seems misleading. And I can't find any data at all about Jewish schools in Jerusalem receiving twice the funding of Arab schools. I can't find the source of that information.

9. Weirdly, I also turned up an article about thousands of "missing" Arab children. These are children who are registered at school, and therefore funded, but who never appear in an actual classroom. Don't even know what to do with that.


My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel. I have also found articles noting the inequality of funding of schools in Canada (white vs. First Nations), in the US (white vs. POC), in Australia (white vs. Maori). In fact, I'd venture to guess that most multi-ethnic and multi-cultural nations struggle with these issues. But the charge of apartheid, institutionalized deliberate government discrimination, second-class citizens, non-citizens is patently, demonstrably, false.

 

[Olde Europe]

A Racist Jewish State

There is a very thin line between a democratic Jewish state and a racist one. This week the line was crossed.
Haaretz Editorial
Jul 20, 2007 12:00 AM

Every day the Knesset has the option of passing laws that will advance Israel as a democratic Jewish state or turn it into a racist Jewish state. There is a very thin line between the two. This week, the line was crossed. If the Knesset legal counselor did not consider the bill entitled "the Jewish National Fund Law" as sufficiently racist to keep it off the agenda, it is hard to imagine what legislation she will consider racist.

In 1995 the Supreme Court rescued the state from callously discriminating against its Arab citizens through the Ka'adan case, which prohibited the Israel Lands Administration from discriminating against non-Jews by leasing land through the Jewish Agency. Since then the attorney general has stated that such discrimination is unacceptable - also when it is carried out through the Jewish National Fund. The MKs were unable to accept this egalitarian ruling, and on Wednesday a large majority of 65 voted in favor of a preliminary reading permitting such discrimination. The bill is also backed by the head of the Knesset Constitution, Law and Justice Committee, MK Menahem Ben-Sasson.

Any explanation by the supporters of the bill seeking to beautify it should be rejected immediately by anyone who cares about the country's image. This bill reflects an abasement of the Zionist enterprise to lows never imagined in the Declaration of Independence. Even though the Jewish National Fund purchased the lands for the Jewish people in the Diaspora, the State of Israel has already been established and these lands must now serve all its citizens.

For those living for tomorrow and not the past, the aim is to create in Israel a healthy, progressive state where the needs of the two peoples should concern the leaders and legislators. The Jewish National Fund's land policy counters the interests of the state and cannot discriminate by law against the minority living in Israel.

The clause in the bill stating that "the leasing of JNF lands for the purpose of settling Jews will not be seen as unacceptable discrimination," even though it involves 13 percent of state-controlled lands and allows for further expressions of discrimination. For example, the establishment of a university only for Jews on JNF land, or a hospital, or a movie theater.

It is not surprising that MK Uri Ariel, who favors the redemption of lands by Jews also beyond the Green Line, is the person who initiated the Jewish National Fund bill. But the support of Benjamin Netanyahu, Ami Ayalon, Michael Eitan, Reuven Rivlin and Shalom Simhon is a very bad omen for the future of legislation in Israel. The Ka'adan case in the Supreme Court failed to bring about change. The power to discriminate was passed on to communities' acceptance committees that reject candidates by reverting to the clause of "being ill-suited to the community." If it was not for the Supreme Court's ruling in the Ka'adan case, it would have been possible also to reject non-Jewish candidates from Russia.

The Ka'adan ruling was exceptional in setting red lines, allowing a broad range for change, establishing norms and preventing the debasement of the rule book. It turns out that the Supreme Court is not omnipotent. In an instant, a racist Knesset can overturn its rulings.​

This is the spirit out of which that latest basic law was born, reinforcing discrimination, hurrying up the creation of bantustans, and, quite possibly, restrict political participation rights. Anyone who cares about Israel as a democratic state should be horrified. Whoever isn't, cannot plausibly claim to be a friend of Israel. That means, in particular, the hasbara peddlers, even in case they actually believe the nonsense they're selling.

 

[admonit]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

 

[Shusha]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

You are arguing that Israel is discrimination-free?

 

[USAF 2023]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

You are arguing that Israel is discrimination-free?

Even if they are; So what? Look at the AntiSemetic background of the Arab World long before 1948

 

[Coyote]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

You are arguing that Israel is discrimination-free?

Even if they are; So what? Look at the AntiSemetic background of the Arab World long before 1948

We can always look at other countries that are worse. Are you saying that it justifies discrimination?

 

[flacaltenn]

The clause in the bill stating that "the leasing of JNF lands for the purpose of settling Jews will not be seen as unacceptable discrimination," even though it involves 13 percent of state-controlled lands and allows for further expressions of discrimination. For example, the establishment of a university only for Jews on JNF land, or a hospital, or a movie theater.

Again -- the emphasis seems to be on strategic immigration policy -- not discrimination against the fully incorporated CURRENT Arab citizens. What good is the promise and priority of providing sanctuary to World Jewry if the very limited land held BY the state (not occupied territories) is not reserved in a fashion that ALLOWS them to honor that pledge.

You're kinda off in the weeds and so is Ha'Aretz with this editorial. I encourage you to READ AGAIN the actual bill shown in OP, and point out the places YOU think turns Israel "into a racist Jewish State". It's not there.

THere's some background on this that I don't know if has been brought up here. There was a requirement at the Founding to write a Constitution for Israel. That never happened. Because there was no way to address the "religious freedom" (or not) within the state. It's not really a Jew/Muslim issue, because religion is not the friction point between most ANYONE in Israel.
(discounting the larger fights between fairly secular and ultra-religious Jews LOL)

They had to avoid fracturing off the ultra orthodox Jews who would either PREFER a State Religion or go 180 degrees to NOT RECOGNIZING a State because of Biblical beliefs. So -- it was avoided. Instead, there was the Harari Decision that stated that the "Principle Laws" would BE the Constitution.

This law we're discussing had the effect of "amending" the non-existent Constitution with a simple statement that "defines Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish people".. This is not racism. It's a promise to past and future asylum seekers. It's akin to saying that Oscar Meyer is the official Hot Dog of MLBaseball. It changes NOTHING ELSE in the "Principle Laws" of Israel nor any policy regarding citizens Arab or Jewish.

As I've said -- IMO --- this is "strategic immigration policy" more than any change in the current arrangements. And they are ENTITLED to make that pledge.

Basic Laws of Israel - Wikipedia

Constitution of Israel - Wikipedia

 

[USAF 2023]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

You are arguing that Israel is discrimination-free?

Even if they are; So what? Look at the AntiSemetic background of the Arab World long before 1948

We can always look at other countries that are worse. Are you saying that it justifies discrimination?

Tired of the double standard. Why doesn’t the “ International Community “”. Condemn and do something about it?

 

[Coyote]

We do that often with the Palestinians as well as to how their future state would be Jew free or governed.

No we don't. For starters, their future state is ALREADY Jew-free.

I have seen multiple claims by those claiming no Jews would be allowed in a Palestinian State. That is as much speculation and demonizing as speculating Israel’s new law will lead to greater discrimination. We don’t know what a Palestinian State will bring or what eventual constitution will be decided upon.

But we do know what exists now. The future state is ALREADY Jew-free and the intent to keep it that way is well-vocalized by the current governments of Palestine. And both governments have constitutions which articulate these concepts -- such as death or hard labor for those who sell property to "enemies".

The double standard is operating here. There is no uproar when Palestine and Gaza announce their self-determination for the ARAB people within the greater ARAB nation, with ARABIC language and ARABIC (Muslim) religion and the Temple Mount and Cave of the Patriarchs being (solely) ARAB (Muslim) holy sites. But when the Jewish people do it...suddenly its discrimination and apartheid and Nazism.

It is Jew free because Israel removed them. And Israel IS the enemy. You can’t make judgements on a nonexistent state. People behave differently once they have a nation, something concrete. Look at Israel’s transition from multiple militias and visions including some that wanted no Arabs in the future nation, to a cohesive state with a shared vision.

The double standard is that we are not giving the Palestinians the same leeway Israel had when it got its state. Team Israel has already decided what to hat state would be like when the Palestinians can’t even agree on what it will be like.

 

[Coyote]

My point is not to absolve Israel from discrimination. I have said time and again that there is clearly deeply rooted, even systemic discrimination in Israel.

What you are saying is not enough. Prove it. Until now I didn't see even one confirmation.

You are arguing that Israel is discrimination-free?

Even if they are; So what? Look at the AntiSemetic background of the Arab World long before 1948

We can always look at other countries that are worse. Are you saying that it justifies discrimination?

Tired of the double standard. Why doesn’t the “ International Community “”. Condemn and do something about it?

About what exactly? Discrimination, racism, etc is nothing to be proud of, or to justify because the other guy does it. My own country still has problems with it, and for all the excuses I hear, I have never heard anyone complain that it shouldn’t matter on because other countries do it.

 

[abu afak]

The clause in the bill stating that "the leasing of JNF lands for the purpose of settling Jews will not be seen as unacceptable discrimination," even though it involves 13 percent of state-controlled lands and allows for further expressions of discrimination. For example, the establishment of a university only for Jews on JNF land, or a hospital, or a movie theater.

Again -- the emphasis seems to be on strategic immigration policy -- not discrimination against the fully incorporated CURRENT Arab citizens. What good is the promise and priority of providing sanctuary to World Jewry if the very limited land held BY the state (not occupied territories) is not reserved in a fashion that ALLOWS them to honor that pledge.

You're kinda off in the weeds and so is Ha'Aretz with this editorial. I encourage you to READ AGAIN the actual bill shown in OP, and point out the places YOU think turns Israel "into a racist Jewish State". It's not there.

THere's some background on this that I don't know if has been brought up here. There was a requirement at the Founding to write a Constitution for Israel. That never happened. Because there was no way to address the "religious freedom" (or not) within the state. It's not really a Jew/Muslim issue, because religion is not the friction point between most ANYONE in Israel.
(discounting the larger fights between fairly secular and ultra-religious Jews LOL)

They had to avoid fracturing off the ultra orthodox Jews who would either PREFER a State Religion or go 180 degrees to NOT RECOGNIZING a State because of Biblical beliefs. So -- it was avoided. Instead, there was the Harari Decision that stated that the "Principle Laws" would BE the Constitution.

This law we're discussing had the effect of "amending" the non-existent Constitution with a simple statement that "defines Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish people".. This is not racism. It's a promise to past and future asylum seekers. It's akin to saying that Oscar Meyer is the official Hot Dog of MLBaseball. It changes NOTHING ELSE in the "Principle Laws" of Israel nor any policy regarding citizens Arab or Jewish.

As I've said -- IMO --- this is "strategic immigration policy" more than any change in the current arrangements. And they are ENTITLED to make that pledge.

Basic Laws of Israel - Wikipedia

Constitution of Israel - Wikipedia

The stated purpose of the British Mandate was to create a "National Home for the Jewish people in Palestine."
This was just a tiny part of the conquered Ottoman lands, 99% of which went to Arabs of various sub-names who now lorded over many TRUE people's like Kurds.

The riot is simply about the 1% arabs didn't get.
But after the War, the Arabs, in the person of Faisal, who did quite well for them due to his buddy 'Lawrence', actually agreed to a Jewish state in All of Palestine AND with a flood of Jewish Refugees to raise up the poor Arab population.. who in good part were tenant farmers, Not land owners.
If you had money in 1900, you lived in Beirut, Damascus, Cairo, not stinking malarial Palestine.
(Most owned Arab land)

This same Faisal who got the Arabs [WTF] 'Jordan' (77% of the Mandate) and gave to a Saudi/Sunni Hashmite Prince/Abdullah.
No Prob with that!
Got the Arabs [WTF is] 'Iraq' to lord over Some Kurds and Shia, as well as Sunni Arabs, and gave it to ANOTHER Hashemite Prince!
No Prob with that.

But only tiny Israel, that he agreed to cede at the time, is 'illegitimate'.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...aisaltext.html

Faisal-Weizman agreement 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir FAISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of HEJAZ, AND Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations, is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following articles:

Article I
The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in their respective territories.

Article II
Immediately following the completion of deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries BETWEEN the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

Article III
In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government’s Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917 (Balfour Declaration-SEH).

Article IV
All necessary measures will be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasants and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.
[.......]​

But it was the Arabs who benefited from British gratefulness/Spoils between the Wars, not the Jews. Brits restricted immigration of Jews into Palestine among other measures.

Palestine, the 23% left after the local Arabs got 'Jordan'/Bulk of the Mandate, was instead divided near in HALF yet again, with both peoples being offered a state: arguably Another state for the Arabs.
Jews accepted, Palestinians didn't despite knowing well for at least 30 Years (Balfour 1917) the Jews were getting one.
`

 

[flacaltenn]

We do that often with the Palestinians as well as to how their future state would be Jew free or governed.

No we don't. For starters, their future state is ALREADY Jew-free.

I have seen multiple claims by those claiming no Jews would be allowed in a Palestinian State. That is as much speculation and demonizing as speculating Israel’s new law will lead to greater discrimination. We don’t know what a Palestinian State will bring or what eventual constitution will be decided upon.

But we do know what exists now. The future state is ALREADY Jew-free and the intent to keep it that way is well-vocalized by the current governments of Palestine. And both governments have constitutions which articulate these concepts -- such as death or hard labor for those who sell property to "enemies".

The double standard is operating here. There is no uproar when Palestine and Gaza announce their self-determination for the ARAB people within the greater ARAB nation, with ARABIC language and ARABIC (Muslim) religion and the Temple Mount and Cave of the Patriarchs being (solely) ARAB (Muslim) holy sites. But when the Jewish people do it...suddenly its discrimination and apartheid and Nazism.

It is Jew free because Israel removed them. And Israel IS the enemy. You can’t make judgements on a nonexistent state. People behave differently once they have a nation, something concrete. Look at Israel’s transition from multiple militias and visions including some that wanted no Arabs in the future nation, to a cohesive state with a shared vision.

The double standard is that we are not giving the Palestinians the same leeway Israel had when it got its state. Team Israel has already decided what to hat state would be like when the Palestinians can’t even agree on what it will be like.

Well almost. Depends on what Pali lands you're talking about being Jew free. Because there is more "mixing" of the 2 factions than most people know or appreciate. And if the ENTIRETY was actually jew-free now, there wouldn't be new settlements springing up all over the map. MAYBE some of this is good. Because a moderate, "liberal" Palestine would benefit from a bit of cultural diversity. I know there are several "mixed" private schools and daycares in the West Bank. And that's a GOOD thing right now. Heck the Palestinians seem to have editorial control of Ha'Aretz... So even the media in Israel ain't even safely "racist Jewish".. LOL...