Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[Indeependent]

Who do you think you are?

All this froth is superficial and mendacious.

Cut to the chase, we all know what the 'real reason' is.

Who do YOU think you are?

We all know why you are desperately trying to deflect this devastatingly accurate comparison between Israel and Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

When’s the last time you were in Israel?

Why are you attempting to deflect?

If Europeans who simply seek to reduce the ludicrously high immigration are called “far right Nazis”, then this means that Israel is, at the very least an apartheid state.

Which is why Arabs are in the Knesset.
To be truthful, within 10 years Israel will be a theocratic state just like the rest of the Middle East and Vatican City.

White people are in the South African government, but it is still very much an anti-white Apartheid state that doesn’t ever listen to them.

Africa was a somewhat established series of nations with infrastructure that was, like every single other inch of land on earth, invaded.
Time to get over it and rebuild.
Most African nations are begging for White money.
I guess you don’t watch TV.

 

[ptbw forever]

Who do YOU think you are?

We all know why you are desperately trying to deflect this devastatingly accurate comparison between Israel and Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

When’s the last time you were in Israel?

Why are you attempting to deflect?

If Europeans who simply seek to reduce the ludicrously high immigration are called “far right Nazis”, then this means that Israel is, at the very least an apartheid state.

Which is why Arabs are in the Knesset.
To be truthful, within 10 years Israel will be a theocratic state just like the rest of the Middle East and Vatican City.

White people are in the South African government, but it is still very much an anti-white Apartheid state that doesn’t ever listen to them.

Africa was a somewhat established series of nations with infrastructure that was, like every single other inch of land on earth, invaded.
Time to get over it and rebuild.
Most African nations are begging for White money.
I guess you don’t watch TV.

Again the deflection.

I wasn’t talking about “Africa”. I was talking about South Africa, the country.

South Africa has white politicians, but that doesn’t mean that the ANC and EFF don’t dominate the country with their racist policies.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Guardian op-ed by Daniel Barenboim distorts nation-state law and Israel’s founding principles

 

[Sixties Fan]

...What is the lesson to be learned from Lebanese history with respect to the National Law in Israel? As an Israeli Maronite Aramaic Christian, belonging to the minority and enjoying freedom in Israel, I actually understand the importance of this Law. Yes, our forefathers supported, for ideological reasons, the realization of the Jewish nation in the Land of Israel. But my support of the National Law arises as well from the bitter Lebanese experience.

(full article online)

National Law: Lessons Learned From Christian Lebanon (Shadi Khalloul) | Israel Diaries

 

[Coyote]

Coyote

Found an article which says that 41% of the schools in East Jerusalem are "unofficial schools" and thus only partly funded by the Municipality of Jerusalem. It is my understanding also that the PA provides funding for Arab schools in East Jerusalem. I'm off to teach TKD. I'll do some more digging and be back later.

Edited to add: Oh, and btw, these are not Arab Israelis, are they?

Aren’t some of them?

 

[Mindful]

...What is the lesson to be learned from Lebanese history with respect to the National Law in Israel? As an Israeli Maronite Aramaic Christian, belonging to the minority and enjoying freedom in Israel, I actually understand the importance of this Law. Yes, our forefathers supported, for ideological reasons, the realization of the Jewish nation in the Land of Israel. But my support of the National Law arises as well from the bitter Lebanese experience.

(full article online)

National Law: Lessons Learned From Christian Lebanon (Shadi Khalloul) | Israel Diaries

I take Israel for granted; don't you?

I don't understand all the pedantic nitpicking about it.

 

[Coyote]

That is the BASIS for our current global system of nations -- the idea that ethnic groups can self-determine and create a nationality and have sovereignty. That is the basis for the formation of probably every new country in the past 100 years. And yet it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it. Why is that, do you think?

Looking back, I just saw you agreed with that disingenuous nonsense above, Coyote.

Let's have a look, shall we? How is the above a genuine reply to what I said? Here:

The point was different laws governing different sects / ethnic groups. No doubt, nations do religious / ethnic bigotry. If I had a choice, I'd opt for less thereof.

For, it is not. Shusha is willfully confusing quite different things, namely, national self-determination and segregation / apartheid.

Second, no, racial / ethnic self-determination is not the "BASIS for our current global system of nations", much as racists and nationalists try to make it so.

Third, in order to demonstrate the above, consider:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of South Africa is unique to White South Africans."

Acceptable? How about this:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Germany is unique to Aryan Germans."

Acceptable? Obviously neither is. Therefore, neither is this: "1. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

So, "it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it" is an obvious falsehood, and quite likely a lie with the purpose of deceiving about the Basic Law officially declaring Israel an apartheid state. Obviously, it caused quite a stir when others did it. There is no direct line between national self-determination and creating a privileged ethnic group within a nation with the objective of discriminating against all others. Confusing the two, and trying to make it appear as if everybody did it, is hasbara, plain and simple.

Shusha's posting didn't surprise me at all, given his/her propensities. It'd be disappointing if you actually, after thorough consideration, agreed with that.

You are forcing me to argue the other side here by your application of false equivalence, namely apartheid comparisons. Let’s consider that...

We have three areas under consideration, 4 actually...and we have multiple systems of law in play: PA, Israeli civil law, Israeli military law. PA law is in effect in areas controlled by Palestinians, Military law is used on Palestinians in Israeli controlled areas while Israeli civil is in effect on Israelis in those same territories (which in itself creates serious injustices) and Israel itself where Israeli civil law is in effect. There is also a difference in the law itself and then the actions of civil authorities and society in how they choose to apply it. To claim apartheid you need to show the laws that support it.

Apartheid created, by law, a completely segregated society in which blacks had legally imposed redirected rights, could only live in deceptively named and resource poor “homelands” and were subject to laws that enforced seperation and inferior status. In Israel itself what laws do that?

The law in this topic only states that Jews can expertise the right of self determination IN Israel. That means others can’t create a seperate state within Israel as part of self determination, if iI understand it correctly. It doesn’t seem like it would effect non Jews much, especially since they removed the settlement part. But I am a little uneasy...I think we will have to see how this plays out in civil society. It is not apartheid however. Arab Israelis are not being moved to Bantustans.

 

[Coyote]

Germany was a good home for Jews for centuries,

Except between 1096 and 1349 when wholesale slaughter of Jewish communities by German Crusaders was commonplace, Jews were blamed for spreading the Black Death, and Jews had their property confiscated.

Except for the fact that Jews couldn't be German citizens until 1805.

Except for the rampant Antisemitism that peaked in the Weimar Republic.

Except for the years 1933 to 1945.

Except for the fact that today, attacks on Jews in German are at an all time high since 1945.

Except for all that, it's been a great home for Jews.

I wonder why they hated Jews so much.....

Maybe we should ask the Swedes after they have been terrorized by Spectre.

Maybe we should ask the Ukrainians who were told that the Holodomor is nothing compared to the Holocaust.

Every ******* leftist party that is destroying the West is run by Jews.

Good grief.

 

[Coyote]

..

Do I have the feeling that you did not understand the France-Germany connection?

I doubt you have any understanding of much at all. It was irrelevant to the conversation, anyways. France does not have laws against citizens of German background.

Does France have any laws against any other people wanting to declare self-determination on its own soil?

Make your point, because France has no law targeting citizens to make them a secondary class. Stop pussyfooting around.

Muslims conquered the land of Israel, as well as other lands. They demand self-determantion on any and all lands they have conquered.
They lost some of the land. They want it back, with no respect for the indigenous inhabitants.

Germany conquered France in WWII.
It lost that war, it lost the lands.
We do not see Germany, nor German citizens moving to France, with the idea that they can have France (or any other conquered land) back in their hands and declare self-determination over it.

In today's world, we have the Muslims wanting to take back any land they conquered.

And let us not forget Russia which seems to be showing how upset it got that the USSR got dissolved and all that land taken from under its hands.

Now, the Jews have sovereignty over ONLY less than 20% of their original ancient homeland. The rest, is being held by invading Arab Muslims (78% of it by the Hashemite Clan which only moved into TranJordan after being booted out around 1915 by the Saud Clan from Arabia)

You and others make no qualms at being upset that Jews are sovereign over any part of their ancient land, much less that they "dare" to call it a (gosh forbid) A Jewish State.

Europe is full of Christian States.
Asia and North Africa is full of Muslim States.

Accept it.

Israel has always been a Jewish State, by the Jews, for the Jews, with non Jews free to live in it, and have freedom of their religion.

The Jews can accept the Arab Muslims having self determination over 80% of their ancient homeland, the Muslims and Christians need to learn to accept Israel for what it is and always has been .


Israel = The ancient homeland of the Jews who have the right to self-determination regardless of the endless attempts by Muslims and Christians to try to destroy it.

Europe is not “full” of Christian states.

Europe is more Islamic than Christian when it comes to state religion.

if you looked at actual demographics instead of relying on hate mongers you would realize Muslims are a tiny fraction of the European populace.

 

[Indeependent]

When’s the last time you were in Israel?

Why are you attempting to deflect?

If Europeans who simply seek to reduce the ludicrously high immigration are called “far right Nazis”, then this means that Israel is, at the very least an apartheid state.

Which is why Arabs are in the Knesset.
To be truthful, within 10 years Israel will be a theocratic state just like the rest of the Middle East and Vatican City.

White people are in the South African government, but it is still very much an anti-white Apartheid state that doesn’t ever listen to them.

Africa was a somewhat established series of nations with infrastructure that was, like every single other inch of land on earth, invaded.
Time to get over it and rebuild.
Most African nations are begging for White money.
I guess you don’t watch TV.

Again the deflection.

I wasn’t talking about “Africa”. I was talking about South Africa, the country.

South Africa has white politicians, but that doesn’t mean that the ANC and EFF don’t dominate the country with their racist policies.

Have you ever been to Israel?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That is the BASIS for our current global system of nations -- the idea that ethnic groups can self-determine and create a nationality and have sovereignty. That is the basis for the formation of probably every new country in the past 100 years. And yet it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it. Why is that, do you think?

Looking back, I just saw you agreed with that disingenuous nonsense above, Coyote.

Let's have a look, shall we? How is the above a genuine reply to what I said? Here:

The point was different laws governing different sects / ethnic groups. No doubt, nations do religious / ethnic bigotry. If I had a choice, I'd opt for less thereof.

For, it is not. Shusha is willfully confusing quite different things, namely, national self-determination and segregation / apartheid.

Second, no, racial / ethnic self-determination is not the "BASIS for our current global system of nations", much as racists and nationalists try to make it so.

Third, in order to demonstrate the above, consider:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of South Africa is unique to White South Africans."

Acceptable? How about this:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Germany is unique to Aryan Germans."

Acceptable? Obviously neither is. Therefore, neither is this: "1. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

So, "it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it" is an obvious falsehood, and quite likely a lie with the purpose of deceiving about the Basic Law officially declaring Israel an apartheid state. Obviously, it caused quite a stir when others did it. There is no direct line between national self-determination and creating a privileged ethnic group within a nation with the objective of discriminating against all others. Confusing the two, and trying to make it appear as if everybody did it, is hasbara, plain and simple.

Shusha's posting didn't surprise me at all, given his/her propensities. It'd be disappointing if you actually, after thorough consideration, agreed with that.

Who do you think you are?

All this froth is superficial and mendacious.

Cut to the chase, we all know what the 'real reason' is.

During the oil embargo in the 70s, Europeans created what was called the Europe Arab dialogue, which was a broad based plan of action to draw Europe closer to their source of oil. Essentially, it was a case of whirring for oil by Europe adopting a world view sympathetic to the Arab street view.

40+ years later and thanks to a press that operates from such a position, pretty much all of Western Europe has been conditioned to take a very hostile attitude towards the same target arabs hate.

The anti Zionism has become ingrained, and the antisemitism follows suit.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Isn't it odd how none of the antisemites use the term apartheid to describe all those many countries that define themselves as Islamic in their very constitutions?

 

[Shusha]

For, it is not. Shusha is willfully confusing quite different things, namely, national self-determination and segregation / apartheid.

Second, no, racial / ethnic self-determination is not the "BASIS for our current global system of nations", much as racists and nationalists try to make it so.

Third, in order to demonstrate the above, consider:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of South Africa is unique to White South Africans."

Acceptable? How about this:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Germany is unique to Aryan Germans."

Acceptable? Obviously neither is. Therefore, neither is this: "1. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

So, "it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it" is an obvious falsehood, and quite likely a lie with the purpose of deceiving about the Basic Law officially declaring Israel an apartheid state. Obviously, it caused quite a stir when others did it. There is no direct line between national self-determination and creating a privileged ethnic group within a nation with the objective of discriminating against all others. Confusing the two, and trying to make it appear as if everybody did it, is hasbara, plain and simple.

Shusha's posting didn't surprise me at all, given his/her propensities. It'd be disappointing if you actually, after thorough consideration, agreed with that.

You're forced to set up a false equivalence in order to dismiss my point and falsely demonize Israel. You've introduced apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany as though they were equivalent to national self-determination. They are not. If you wanted to bring up national self-determination you could have brought up Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzevogina, Macedonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Moldova, Estonia, Armenia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan. Maybe you would have brought up peoples who seek, but not yet have achieved self-determination: First Nations peoples of US and Canada, Tibet, Catalonia, Western Sahara, Palestine.

The UN Charter, Article 1.2 states definitively that its purpose is, in part: 2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; (emphasis mine)

The Constitution of Slovenia, as an example, states: the fundamental and permanent right of the Slovene nation to self-determination; and from the historical fact that in a centuries-long struggle for national liberation we Slovenes have established our national identity and asserted our statehood, the Assembly of the Republic of Slovenia hereby adopts.. (emphasis mine)

Slovenia is a state of all its citizens and is founded on the permanent and inalienable right of the Slovene nation to self-determination. (emphasis mine)

Instead of bringing up those examples you introduced two times and places in history which were conditioned, not on the self-determination of a peoples, but on the discrimination, pogroms, persecution and genocides of another peoples. There is no equivalence here. A declaration of self-determination, of itself, is not the persecution of another peoples, nor does it create conditions of persecution of another people. I am relatively certain there is no uproar about Slovenia's declaration of self-determination, nor of any other peoples'. And I am certain you will not declare Slovenia an apartheid state. There is a double standard here operating because its Israel.

And, let's be clear. The REASON why Israel feels the need to include a statement like this in their Basic Law is because their absolute, inherent right to self-determination is continually being denied by Arabs, Arab Palestinians and globally by useful idiots like you. The need to entrench this statement in law is RESULT of discrimination, persecution and pogroms directed against the Jewish people who are being actively prevented from having the same rights of other peoples, and whose desire to have the same rights as other peoples is being deliberately and falsely conflated with apartheid and with Nazism.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

For, it is not. Shusha is willfully confusing quite different things, namely, national self-determination and segregation / apartheid.

Second, no, racial / ethnic self-determination is not the "BASIS for our current global system of nations", much as racists and nationalists try to make it so.

Third, in order to demonstrate the above, consider:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of South Africa is unique to White South Africans."

Acceptable? How about this:

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Germany is unique to Aryan Germans."

Acceptable? Obviously neither is. Therefore, neither is this: "1. C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people."

So, "it doesn't cause a stir in the world until the Jewish people do it" is an obvious falsehood, and quite likely a lie with the purpose of deceiving about the Basic Law officially declaring Israel an apartheid state. Obviously, it caused quite a stir when others did it. There is no direct line between national self-determination and creating a privileged ethnic group within a nation with the objective of discriminating against all others. Confusing the two, and trying to make it appear as if everybody did it, is hasbara, plain and simple.

Shusha's posting didn't surprise me at all, given his/her propensities. It'd be disappointing if you actually, after thorough consideration, agreed with that.

You're forced to set up a false equivalence in order to dismiss my point and falsely demonize Israel. You've introduced apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany as though they were equivalent to national self-determination. They are not. If you wanted to bring up national self-determination you could have brought up Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzevogina, Macedonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Moldova, Estonia, Armenia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan. Maybe you would have brought up peoples who seek, but not yet have achieved self-determination: First Nations peoples of US and Canada, Tibet, Catalonia, Western Sahara, Palestine.

The UN Charter, Article 1.2 states definitively that its purpose is, in part: 2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; (emphasis mine)

The Constitution of Slovenia, as an example, states: the fundamental and permanent right of the Slovene nation to self-determination; and from the historical fact that in a centuries-long struggle for national liberation we Slovenes have established our national identity and asserted our statehood, the Assembly of the Republic of Slovenia hereby adopts.. (emphasis mine)

Slovenia is a state of all its citizens and is founded on the permanent and inalienable right of the Slovene nation to self-determination. (emphasis mine)

Instead of bringing up those examples you introduced two times and places in history which were conditioned, not on the self-determination of a peoples, but on the discrimination, pogroms, persecution and genocides of another peoples. There is no equivalence here. A declaration of self-determination, of itself, is not the persecution of another peoples, nor does it create conditions of persecution of another people. I am relatively certain there is no uproar about Slovenia's declaration of self-determination, nor of any other peoples'. And I am certain you will not declare Slovenia an apartheid state. There is a double standard here operating because its Israel.

And, let's be clear. The REASON why Israel feels the need to include a statement like this in their Basic Law is because their absolute, inherent right to self-determination is continually being denied by Arabs, Arab Palestinians and globally by useful idiots like you. The need to entrench this statement in law is RESULT of discrimination, persecution and pogroms directed against the Jewish people who are being actively prevented from having the same rights of other peoples, and whose desire to have the same rights as other peoples is being deliberately and falsely conflated with apartheid and with Nazism.

...and of course, as we both know, the term apartheid is not original to the user, as it is just a very cynical ruse crafted by Arab propagandists to create a false impression.

 

[Humanity]

Arab Israelis are not being moved to Bantustans.

Yet!

 

[Shusha]

Arab Israelis are not being moved to Bantustans.

Yet!

Sure. Let's demonize an entire peoples because of what you imagine they might do in the future. Seems fair. /sarcasm

 

[Humanity]

Arab Israelis are not being moved to Bantustans.

Yet!

Sure. Let's demonize an entire peoples because of what you imagine they might do in the future. Seems fair. /sarcasm

I'm not demonizing anyone... Certainly not "an entire peoples"!

There in lies a common issue with Team Israel...

The distinction between people and politics!

My critisizing Israeli politics and policies does not, as you might claim, make me antisemetic!

 

[Shusha]

Well, I don't agree that Israel should annex all of Jerusalem.

"declare loyalty to Israel" or get deported?

Well, that would be an interesting move. How many countries have a law like that?

No country should be forced to live with a hostile population actively trying to destroy the State. In civil conflicts like this one, the solution is to divide the territory and form nations around a specific ethnic population, almost always with a minority of other ethnicities. This is all I am proposing and I'm proposing it equally for both Israel and Palestine. Each citizen, currently living in the territory, is given the choice of declaring citizenship -- Israeli or Palestinian -- and residing in their State of citizenship as safe, loyal citizens. Should they choose to relocate, they are given compensation to assist them with doing so. Seems fair and reasonable, and allows each citizen to choose what is best for them and their family.

 

[Shusha]

Show me one post where I demonize Jews

Jew traits

 

[Humanity]

Well, I don't agree that Israel should annex all of Jerusalem.

"declare loyalty to Israel" or get deported?

Well, that would be an interesting move. How many countries have a law like that?

No country should be forced to live with a hostile population actively trying to destroy the State. In civil conflicts like this one, the solution is to divide the territory and form nations around a specific ethnic population, almost always with a minority of other ethnicities. This is all I am proposing and I'm proposing it equally for both Israel and Palestine. Each citizen, currently living in the territory, is given the choice of declaring citizenship -- Israeli or Palestinian -- and residing in their State of citizenship as safe, loyal citizens. Should they choose to relocate, they are given compensation to assist them with doing so. Seems fair and reasonable, and allows each citizen to choose what is best for them and their family.

Except there is a slight issue over land.

Who will decide that? Israel?