Norway looking at banning male genital mutilation

[irosie91]

If you can't do this thread without getting personal -- it's doomed. Not gonna "fix it" anymore.

Thanks.

I'm good with how this thread is going. It's giving people a platform to share differing thoughts/opinions about a topic some don't fully understand.

fla hates it when he has to moderate.

I can understand the frustrations mods experience.

He's being tasked with keeping people to stay within the rules. That's a much harder task than some might think.

especially in a gun-free area

 

[martybegan]

More from the crazy liberals.

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

 

[irosie91]

More from the crazy liberals.

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

 

[martybegan]

More from the crazy liberals.

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

 

[tycho1572]

My penis was cut at an age before it became more important than pissing.

Not only do I not remember it being done, I see it as a smart decision by my parents.

I now have a penis that any man would be proud of sporting. A penis women love and respect.

 

[flacaltenn]

WtHell does infant mortality have to do with circumcision? From the explanation under the chart, this includes "deaths at ALL gestational ages". Seems that includes ABORTIONS -- doesn't it?

Congrats on the deflection...

 

[irosie91]

More from the crazy liberals.

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

you don't know what you missed. The mohel who did my son was an
artist..----------uhm......I do not trust doctors to do it-----not enough experience.
Now try to guess my pre-retirement profession-----also that of two of my four
brothers

 

[martybegan]

More from the crazy liberals.

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

you don't know what you missed. The mohel who did my son was an
artist..----------uhm......I do not trust doctors to do it-----not enough experience.
Now try to guess my pre-retirement profession-----also that of two of my four
brothers

Salami slicer?

 

[irosie91]

WtHell does infant mortality have to do with circumcision? From the explanation under the chart, this includes "deaths at ALL gestational ages". Seems that includes ABORTIONS -- doesn't it?

Congrats on the deflection...

she thinks that the chart SOMEHOW relates to circumcision. ----
as to cervical cancer. ------I did not check-----but early on it is
completely curable with a cone biopsy. The actual stats are difficult
to ascertain even in a land with socialized medicine like England.
Monte may be citing "deaths" with cervical cancer which may, very well,
be way down in a land where pap smears are free and general practitioners
can CONE out the cervix

 

[irosie91]

Actually no. The nationalist party in Norway introduced it and male genital mutilation should be allowed,want to cut part of your penis off go ahead AFTER you turn 18.

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

you don't know what you missed. The mohel who did my son was an
artist..----------uhm......I do not trust doctors to do it-----not enough experience.
Now try to guess my pre-retirement profession-----also that of two of my four
brothers

Salami slicer?

something like that. Speaking of which, have you ever watched
a professional corned beef slicer in action?------ARTISTS!!!!!.
The little device used for foreskin slicing is made in Germany-----
like all very good knives. I would not trust it in the hands of a
surgical intern

 

[irosie91]

WtHell does infant mortality have to do with circumcision? From the explanation under the chart, this includes "deaths at ALL gestational ages". Seems that includes ABORTIONS -- doesn't it?

Congrats on the deflection...

hard to tell------most early spontaneous abortions (aka miscarriages)
are not noticed--------just a delayed menses. In any case----infant mortality
is an issue with LOTS AND LOTS of variables

 

[martybegan]

Male circumcision is not male genital mutilation, and to call it that is an abomination that reduces the stigma attached to FGM, which is in most cases actual mutilation.

I'm "cut" and my wang works just fine thank you very much, plus it's easier to maintain.

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

you don't know what you missed. The mohel who did my son was an
artist..----------uhm......I do not trust doctors to do it-----not enough experience.
Now try to guess my pre-retirement profession-----also that of two of my four
brothers

Salami slicer?

something like that. Speaking of which, have you ever watched
a professional corned beef slicer in action?------ARTISTS!!!!!.
The little device used for foreskin slicing is made in Germany-----
like all very good knives. I would not trust it in the hands of a
surgical intern

In places where there are a lot of Catholics doctors do it all the time, its very common.

I think it was the guy who delivered me who did it, and he was a very experienced doctor.

 

[flacaltenn]

Circumcision is NOT genital mutilation. It does not interfere with enjoyment or function. And it has no other implications if done with care at that early age.

In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss. And GOVERNMENT shouldn't have a say in this. Because if the WRONG people get in charge, all those piercings and hormone therapies are gonna be on the table...

 

[irosie91]

"working wang maintenance" --------a new moniker for the MOHEL professional

No mohel involved for me, I grew up Catholic, so it was done by a doctor in the hospital when I was born.

you don't know what you missed. The mohel who did my son was an
artist..----------uhm......I do not trust doctors to do it-----not enough experience.
Now try to guess my pre-retirement profession-----also that of two of my four
brothers

Salami slicer?

something like that. Speaking of which, have you ever watched
a professional corned beef slicer in action?------ARTISTS!!!!!.
The little device used for foreskin slicing is made in Germany-----
like all very good knives. I would not trust it in the hands of a
surgical intern

In places where there are a lot of Catholics doctors do it all the time, its very common.

I think it was the guy who delivered me who did it, and he was a very experienced doctor.[/QUOTE

interesting thought-----jewish Ob.s probably do it less than catholic Ob.s.
however there are a few jewish Ob.s who are trained as mohels too----
not a whole lot

 

[montelatici]

Circumcision is NOT genital mutilation. It does not interfere with enjoyment or function. And it has no other implications if done with care at that early age.

In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss. And GOVERNMENT shouldn't have a say in this. Because if the WRONG people get in charge, all those piercings and hormone therapies are gonna be on the table...

Of course it is genital mutilation. It is by definition. What the heck's the matter with you. You people are nuts. If there was a religion that required the loping off of the right earlobe of a newborn, do you think it would not be mutilation? You people are unbelievable.

 

[flacaltenn]

Circumcision is NOT genital mutilation. It does not interfere with enjoyment or function. And it has no other implications if done with care at that early age.

In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss. And GOVERNMENT shouldn't have a say in this. Because if the WRONG people get in charge, all those piercings and hormone therapies are gonna be on the table...

Of course it is genital mutilation. It is by definition. What the heck's the matter with you. You people are nuts. If there was a religion that required the loping off of the right earlobe of a newborn, do you think it would not be mutilation? You people are unbelievable.

It's minor cosmetic surgery. NOT mutilation. You have to have INTENT to cause harm or gross incompetency for it to be "mutilation". Doctors who perform this practice are not "mutilators"...

Newborn Male Circumcision

Newborn Male Circumcision
8/27/2012
After a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision. The AAP policy statement published Monday, August 27, says the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs.

Cut the hysterical rhetoric and take it up with the "nuts" at the Academy..

 

[montelatici]

Cutting off a part of a baby's penis is mutilation. There is little difference between MGM, as practiced in the U.S., and Type I FGM. In civilized countries, both should be banned completely. At a minimum the individual should be of an age to decide for himself or herself, not the parents.

DEFICIENCIES OF THE 2012 AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS REPORT ON CIRCUMCISION

1. The AAP report conflicts with positions in other countries that recommend against circumcision or are discussing restricting it. Other countries recognize the inherent physical, sexual, and psychological harm of circumcision and that it violates medical ethics to cut off a natural, healthy, functioning body part.
   
   
2. The effects of circumcision pain and changes in infant behavior after circumcision are not mentioned in the AAP report. Studies show that circumcision is significantly painful, traumatic, and affects the brain as evidenced by large increases in heart rate, blood pressure, and stress hormone levels during circumcision. Some infants do not cry because they go into shock. After circumcision there are changes in infant behavior, sleep patterns, activity level, more irritability, and there are disruptions in mother-child bonding and feeding. Anesthetics, if used, consist of injections into the penis and do not eliminate circumcision pain.
   
   
3. All circumcision risks and ethical objections to circumcision are not mentioned in the AAP report. Circumcision has about two dozen surgical risks including, in rare cases, death. Some doctors and nurses refuse to perform or assist with circumcisions because of ethical considerations.
   
   
4. The AAP report does not mention the anatomy and functions of the foreskin. Based on medical studies, circumcision removes up to one-half of the erogenous tissue on the penile shaft. The adult foreskin is a double layer, a movable sleeve equivalent to approximately twelve square inches. Medical studies have shown that the foreskin protects the penile head, enhances sexual pleasure, and facilitates intercourse. (Common sense check: If the AAP used common sense, they would realize that missing twelve square inches of erogenous tissue would have an adverse effect on sexual function.)The AAP deleted information about the functions of the foreskin in a pamphlet for parents.
   
   
5. The AAP report does not examine the connection between circumcision and erectile dysfunction though it is reported in the medical literature. Cutting off the foreskin removes several kinds of specialized nerves and results in the thickening and progressive desensitization of exposed erogenous tissue that would normally be protected by the foreskin. In a 2011 survey, circumcised men were 4.5 times more likely than those who were not circumcised to use an erectile dysfunction drug.
   
   
6. The AAP report does not mention psychological harm. Some dissatisfied men report wide-ranging psychological consequences of circumcision including anger, a sense of loss and sadness, and sexual anxieties. Reduced emotional expression and the avoidance of intimacy may also be related to circumcision.
   
   Most circumcised men may seem satisfied because they accept cultural beliefs about circumcision and may not understand what circumcision is and the benefits of the foreskin. They may suppress certain feelings about circumcision because they are too painful. They also may not disclose these feelings due to fear of being dismissed or ridiculed.
   
   
7. The AAP report is influenced by personal, cultural, financial, and professional conflicts of interest.These factors include committee members' circumcision status, number of circumcisions performed, circumcision status of any male children, and religious or ethnic background.
   
   
8. The AAP report inflates the potential benefits by stating in its summary, for example, that circumcision "prevents" penile cancer. A closer look at the report text shows that the incidence of penile cancer is 0.58 case in 100,000 in the United States, where circumcision is common, and 0.82 case in 100,000 in Denmark, where circumcision is rare. According to studies cited in the report, between 909 and 322,000 circumcisions would be required to prevent one case of penile cancer. (Common sense check: Do these numbers support circumcision to "prevent" penile cancer?)
   
   
9. The AAP report inflates the potential benefits by stating in its summary, for example, that circumcision "prevents" urinary tract infection (UTI). The report text states, "Given that the risk of UTI among this population [boys under age 2] is approximately 1%, the number needed to circumcise to prevent UTI is approximately 100." Therefore, 99 boys out of 100 receive no UTI "benefit" from circumcision. UTI is treatable with antibiotics. Good medical practice requires the least intrusive form of effective treatment. All the claimed "preventive health benefits" are debatable and insignificant.
   
   
10. "Preventive [or potential] health benefits" are not actual health benefits. The overwhelming majority of males who are not circumcised will not get these infections or diseases. Therefore, circumcision does not give them any health benefit.
    
    
11. Professionals have challenged many studies cited by the AAP report. For example, the AAP report mentions studies that claim reduced HIV transmission in Africa for circumcised men. However, (1) About 60 circumcisions were required to prevent one HIV infection. (2) The studies did not seek to determine the source of the HIV infections. Most HIV infections in Africa are transmitted by contaminated injections and surgical procedures. (3) The studies were not consistent with other evidence. (4) In Europe, where circumcision is rare, there is no increase in the incidence of HIV transmission. (5) Studies of African adults cannot be applicable to American infants.
    
    
12. In its discussion of over three pages attempting to show that circumcision reduces STDs, the AAP report does not mention the word "condom." Condoms are much more effective (99%) than circumcision, less invasive, much less costly, and they protect women from infection. (Common sense check: If a condom is better than circumcision, why circumcise?)
    
    
13. The AAP report even attempts to make an issue of penile hygiene. In all previous AAP reports, hygiene is not an issue. For example, according to the 1999 report, "there is little evidence to affirm the association between circumcision status and optimal penile hygiene."
    
    
14. The AAP report ignores serious ethical questions connected with cutting off an important, healthy, and irreplaceable part of a child's body without medical justification.
    
    • The AAP Committee on Bioethics report states, "Pediatric health care providers … have legal and ethical duties to their child patients to render competent medical care based on what the patient needs, not what someone else expresses… .[T]he pediatrician's responsibilities to his or her patient exist independent of parental desires or proxy consent." For these reasons, some physicians and nurses refuse to circumcise for ethical reasons. Yet the AAP report concluded that it is "legitimate" to circumcise if the parent requests it for nonmedical reasons. These two reports of the AAP are in conflict. This office wrote to a member of the AAP Committee on Bioethics requesting comment on this conflict. No response was received. (See bottom of page with letter to Susan Blank, Chair of the AAP Task Force on Circumcision.
    • Circumcision violates the Golden Rule. Adults would not consent to having a healthy genital part cut off, with or without pain medication. Yet adults put a helpless, vulnerable, sensitive newborn child through this painful ordeal.
    • According to an article in the medical literature, circumcision violates all seven principles of Medical Ethics. (Denniston, G., "Circumcision and the Code of Ethics," Humane Health Care International 12 (1996): 72-74)
15. The AAP report lacks balance. It uses much more space discussing potential benefits as compared to potential harms. This is consistent with their "Statement of the Issue" which only refers to "possible benefits" and ignores harms. The "Literature Search Overview" also ignores topics and questions related to harms, which are different from risks and complications.
16. In its recommendations for future research, the AAP report calls for research into potential benefits. There is no mention of future research into the harm. Unexplored areas include testing male infants, older children, and adults for changes in feelings, attitudes, and behaviors (especially antisocial behavior); physiological, neurological, and neurochemical differences; and sexual and emotional functioning.
    
    For example, the effect of circumcision on male distrust, anxiety, and anger toward women is unrecognized and unexamined. Do the psychological and sexual consequences of circumcision affect America's uniquely high divorce rate? We do not know.
    
    Circumcision is traumatic and changes the brain. Does circumcision affect the prevalence of autism and ADHD which both occur about four times more often in boys than in girls? We do not know.
    
    Sudden infant death syndrome occurs more often in boys than in girls. The rise and fall of male infant mortality correlates with the rise and fall of the circumcision rate. Is circumcision a contributing factor? We do not know.
    
    
17. The AAP report does not mention physician coercion and unauthorized circumcisions. The previous 1999 AAP report warned physicians that parents should not be coerced by medical professionals to choose circumcision, suggesting that some medical professionals have coerced parents to choose circumcision. In fact, some infants have been circumcised even though parents explicitly requested no circumcision.
18. The AAP report ignores difficulties with informed consent. The report notes that informed consent "obligates the clinician to explain any procedure or treatment and to enumerate the risks, benefits, and alternatives so the patient can make an informed choice." (Of course, this cannot happen because the patient is the child.) A physician cannot do this if the physician is not aware of information omitted from the AAP report. Some physicians describe circumcision as not painful, just causing "discomfort." Few physicians know the functions of the foreskin and are aware of the sexual and psychological effects of circumcision.
19. The AAP report attempts to shift responsibility for circumcisions to the parents, but physicians are the ones doing the cutting. This is the only instance where laypeople make the decision about whether or not to operate.
20. The underlying flawed assumption is that the way to evaluate circumcision is to perform medical studies. This assumption reflects the values and biases of medical doctors. Most medical studies are flawed. Most of the world rejects circumcision as a harmful genital surgery. They do not need medical studies. All they need are feelings and common sense. Watch a circumcision video and trust your feelings. Does it make sense to cut off a natural, healthy, functioning body part? Would you want anyone else to make that decision about your body? Medical doctors often ignore feelings and common sense.
    
    

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Circumcision is NOT genital mutilation. It does not interfere with enjoyment or function. And it has no other implications if done with care at that early age.

In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss. And GOVERNMENT shouldn't have a say in this. Because if the WRONG people get in charge, all those piercings and hormone therapies are gonna be on the table...

Of course it is genital mutilation. It is by definition. What the heck's the matter with you. You people are nuts. If there was a religion that required the loping off of the right earlobe of a newborn, do you think it would not be mutilation? You people are unbelievable.

It's minor cosmetic surgery. NOT mutilation. You have to have INTENT to cause harm or gross incompetency for it to be "mutilation". Doctors who perform this practice are not "mutilators"...

Newborn Male Circumcision

Newborn Male Circumcision
8/27/2012
After a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision. The AAP policy statement published Monday, August 27, says the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs.

Cut the hysterical rhetoric and take it up with the "nuts" at the Academy..

Male circumcision isn't mutilation, FGM now that's mutilation and is one of the most wicked and heinous crimes committed on a human being and any nation that tolerates FGM should be made international pariahs.

Male circumcision is performed for a variety of reasons, which also include if the foreskin is too tight.

Circumcision or non-Circumcision are both okay, with the latter as long as they keep their um member clean, then there's nothing wrong with non-Circumcision either.

However I wish people would stop referring to male circumcision as mutilation, if they want to see actual mutilation then have a stiff drink and have a look at the horror that's FGM which is essentially nothing but absolute butchery.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Circumcision is NOT genital mutilation. It does not interfere with enjoyment or function. And it has no other implications if done with care at that early age.

In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss. And GOVERNMENT shouldn't have a say in this. Because if the WRONG people get in charge, all those piercings and hormone therapies are gonna be on the table...

"In an age where folks are condoning "sex assignment" before puberty ---- I think there are more serious "abuses" to discuss."

Exactly, once again we see a complete misdirection of priorities, they should concentrate on the psychologically messed up people who think it's normal to encourage an 8 year old to take hormone pills and a 10 year old to start thinking of having their entire penis cut off.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

It is unlikely to pass because the Jews are against it and it is presented by the third party of Norway.

The Progress Party are in Coalition with Prime Minister Erna Solberg's Conservative Party, it's the Blue-Blue Cabinet and Siv Jensen is the Minister of Finance.

We are not talking about some non-entity political party.

One of my Brothers-in-Law is the private secretary of a Cabinet Minister in Erna Solberg's Government, I'm not naming names,. but I have mentioned this at least once before at this forum about my Brother-in-Law.