iceberg
Diamond Member
- May 15, 2017
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Nord Stream Pipeline Explosion
- Thread starter Ringo
- Start date
- Sep 16, 2012
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Russia never wanted Ukraine.
You really don't pay attention to anything but the propaganda coming out of the CFR. You really have no idea what the Kremlin wanted, do you?
You really are this ignorant, and participating in political conversations, about an issues you don't know shit about.
Un-fucking believable.
tahuyaman
Platinum Member
- Aug 21, 2012
- 8,413
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Lol.
para bellum
Diamond Member
I thought it was 200 feet, but either way it's well within the range of a technical dive. The charges could have been planted anytime- by diver or UUV, even a pig in the pipe would work.
I read 300 feet was the depth. Russia obviously doesn't need to sell their natural gas.
Why do you think Putin invaded Ukraine?
- Sep 16, 2012
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WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
17 February 2022
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, "special security units" coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the "duly elected" coup regime for its "remarkable restraint".
In the US media the Odessa atrocity was played down as "murky" and a "tragedy" in which "nationalists" (neo-Nazis) attacked "separatists" (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal damned the victims - "Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says".
Professor Stephen Cohen, acclaimed as America's leading authority on Russia, wrote, "The pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during world war two. [Today] storm-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other 'impure' citizens are widespread throughout Kyiv-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s...
"The police and official legal authorities do virtually nothing to prevent these neo-fascist acts or to prosecute them. On the contrary, Kyiv has officially encouraged them by systematically rehabilitating and even memorialising Ukrainian collaborators with Nazi German extermination pogroms, renaming streets in their honour, building monuments to them, rewriting history to glorify them, and more."
Today, neo-Nazi Ukraine is seldom mentioned. That the British are training the Ukrainian National Guard, which includes neo-Nazis, is not news. (See Matt Kennard's Declassified report in Consortium 15 February). The return of violent, endorsed fascism to 21st-century Europe, to quote Harold Pinter, "never happened ... even while it was happening".
On 16 December, the United Nations tabled a resolution that called for "combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism". The only nations to vote against it were the United States and Ukraine.
Almost every Russian knows that it was across the plains of Ukraine's "borderland" that Hitler's divisions swept from the west in 1941, bolstered by Ukraine's Nazi cultists and collaborators. The result was more than 20 million Russian dead.
Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia's respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:
- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)
These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.
Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The "massing" army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.. . ."
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
17 February 2022
". . . Vladimir Putin refers to the "genocide" in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine. Following the coup in Ukraine in 2014 - orchestrated by Barack Obama's "point person" in Kyiv, Victoria Nuland - the coup regime, infested with neo-Nazis, launched a campaign of terror against Russian-speaking Donbas, which accounts for a third of Ukraine's population.WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDAjohnpilger.com
Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, "special security units" coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the "duly elected" coup regime for its "remarkable restraint".
In the US media the Odessa atrocity was played down as "murky" and a "tragedy" in which "nationalists" (neo-Nazis) attacked "separatists" (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal damned the victims - "Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says".
Professor Stephen Cohen, acclaimed as America's leading authority on Russia, wrote, "The pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during world war two. [Today] storm-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other 'impure' citizens are widespread throughout Kyiv-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s...
"The police and official legal authorities do virtually nothing to prevent these neo-fascist acts or to prosecute them. On the contrary, Kyiv has officially encouraged them by systematically rehabilitating and even memorialising Ukrainian collaborators with Nazi German extermination pogroms, renaming streets in their honour, building monuments to them, rewriting history to glorify them, and more."
Today, neo-Nazi Ukraine is seldom mentioned. That the British are training the Ukrainian National Guard, which includes neo-Nazis, is not news. (See Matt Kennard's Declassified report in Consortium 15 February). The return of violent, endorsed fascism to 21st-century Europe, to quote Harold Pinter, "never happened ... even while it was happening".
On 16 December, the United Nations tabled a resolution that called for "combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism". The only nations to vote against it were the United States and Ukraine.
Almost every Russian knows that it was across the plains of Ukraine's "borderland" that Hitler's divisions swept from the west in 1941, bolstered by Ukraine's Nazi cultists and collaborators. The result was more than 20 million Russian dead.
Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia's respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:
- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)
These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.
Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The "massing" army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.. . ."
Both Kuwait and Iraq speak Arabic.. why is speaking Russian important?
- Sep 16, 2012
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Are you seriously this dumb?
This would be like MAGA republicans coming into office, and passing a law that English is the official language of the entire US, and only it could be spoken, and liberal places in the nation resisting by still teaching and using Spanish, and then having their goons terrorize them.
Your critical reading and critical thinking skills? They leave much to be desired. You really have no idea what is going on in this nation, do you?
Why is allowing folks to speak and do business in their native tongue important, is that what you are asking? Are you serious? Are you obtuse?
Or are you just a fascist when it suits you?
File:Ethnolingusitic map of ukraine.png - Wikimedia Commons
Historic Context Of The Referenda In Ukraine
View attachment 701501
". . . In 2014, after the violent fascist coup in Kiev, one of the first laws implemented by the new government removed the Russian language from official use. Instead of overcoming the differences between its people it only sealed the predominant split in Ukraine.
The election promise of the current Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelenski to make peace with the Russia aligned rebellious Donbas region by adhering to the Minsk 2 agreements was rewarded with a large share of southeastern votes for his presidency. However, after having been threatened with death by fascists, Zelenski has made a 180 degree turn and has since posed as Ukrainian nationalist. In consequence he has lost all support in southeastern Ukraine.
The southeastern parts of today's Ukraine have for centuries been part of the central Russian empire. They were only attached to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine under Lenin's rule in 1922 and, in the case of Crimea, in 1954 under Nikita Khrushchev who himself had grown up in the Donbas region. . . . "
para bellum
Diamond Member
Putin's problem is there is no connection from the Western Siberian gas fields to the Eastern ones. He can't just sell that gas to China or India. Russia dorsn't have enough capacity to convert it to LNG, and can't build out more LNG production under sanctions.
Russia's western gas has to be consumed domestically or be exported to Europe. Europe isn't keen to go back to dependence on Russia, so ultimately Russia will have to find a new market.
Europe was the best market- they paid the highest price and used the most gas. The former warpac countries pay a lower price when they are in Putin's good graces, and pay a higher price if they make him mad.
He's used gas as an economic weapon against all his neighbors, but the Europeans thought he would never do that to them. Well they were wrong. I don't think they'll make that mistake again (for a while, anyway).
- Sep 16, 2012
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IOW?
IT would make no damn sense for Russia to sabotage the gas pipeline.
Only an idiot would buy such nonsense propaganda.
So Putin has killed his European customers? His Nordstream2 pipeline cost billions.
Russia's Minuscule Economy: The Mouse That Roars
www.ipi.org
Nothing Putin has done makes economic sense.
Bubble bath.......lighter.....LOL
the other mike
Diamond Member
Being at the brink of ww3 is comical
to the brain-dead left.
the other mike
Diamond Member
Shut up.
$80 billion going to Ukraine tops Russia's entire military budget .
We burn through a trillion a year in defense and 'national security'.
Russia is a poor country and now they have attacked their customers and wasted billions of dollars they invested in Nordstream2.
Russia's Minuscule Economy: The Mouse That Roars
www.ipi.org
para bellum
Diamond Member
He did that on February 24. Every business owner knows, you don't piss off your best customer without a back-up plan.
Some say he did it to get out of the contractual penalties, but I don't really think so. I know he could have- there were Russian warships there in June (Danish territorial waters and drew a response). I also know false flag ops are natural to Putin, and the pipeline was kind of a white elephant if Europe doesn't come back to Russian gas anyway.
But I can suspect the US as well. We've been threatening this sort of thing since Reagan, and it puts Germany in the same boat as the rest of Europe- which I think is a good thing, btw.
It will be analyzed, and I think they will be able to make a relatively strong attribution when the wreckage is examined.
the other mike
Diamond Member
The US War criminals did this and the whole world knows it.Russia is a poor country and now they have attacked their customers and wasted billions of dollars they invested in Nordstream2.
Russia's Minuscule Economy: The Mouse That Roars
Putin wants to make Russia great again.. Hitler said the same thing about Germany.
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