Nord Stream Pipeline Explosion

[para bellum]

So you claim to have US intel at a very classified level, and post it here, on an obscure internet forum, as some form as fact.

No, I am saying Open Source intel disputes Hersh.

Just read it. Start with the Feb 10 piece and then two follow-up pieces. The AIS tracks are there too. This is what happens if a writer doesn't do his fact checking. Experts get a hold of it and check the details and the story falls apart.

It makes no sense to stage such an operation during BALTOPS anyway. The exercise is all about interoperability. No one participates in isolation. The ships Hersh claims were sabotaging the pipeline were participating in an exercise with other ships, who would have known if something was not normal. The list of people who would have had to know, but kept the secret, gets impossibly long.

 

[para bellum]

Also, if you haven't actually read Hersh's substack piece, you need to read that first.

If all you know about it is from some talking head on RT or wherever, you aren't even in the conversation. Just sayin'...

 

[zaangalewa]

I have absolutelly not any idea what the USA tried and tries to see in the pipelines Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2. It had been pipelines - that's all. The extremists who did destroy them destroyed a way direction normality and peace - after Putin will have lost.

 

[zaangalewa]

I have a question for the germans:
I wonder how ordinary Germans were told that Germany's two closest NATO allies had blown up their supply of cheap, hostile russian gas and replaced it with their own supply of friendly, expensive gas?

We don't know who had done so and we don't care.

 

[Ringo]

We don't know who had done so and we don't care.

A typical answer of germans, living near nazi concentration camps, when asked, if they knew what was happening in these camps. The Allies even had to organize tours to notify the hypocritical bastards of what was going on there.
I read about an episode when a high-ranking American officer noticed two german girls, laughing on their way out of a concentration camp after a tour, so he ordered them driven into a ditch with dead prisoners and forced them to spend the night there. Back then, no one needed to be convinced about who was Evil.

 

[Delldude]

No, I am saying Open Source intel disputes Hersh.

Just read it. Start with the Feb 10 piece and then two follow-up pieces. The AIS tracks are there too. This is what happens if a writer doesn't do his fact checking. Experts get a hold of it and check the details and the story falls apart.

It makes no sense to stage such an operation during BALTOPS anyway. The exercise is all about interoperability. No one participates in isolation. The ships Hersh claims were sabotaging the pipeline were participating in an exercise with other ships, who would have known if something was not normal. The list of people who would have had to know, but kept the secret, gets impossibly long.

Pulling off a covert op using war games is an excellent cover.

Your guy stresses throughout, his info is only a theory.

 

[para bellum]

Pulling off a covert op using war games is an excellent cover.

Maybe in a Tom Clancy novel. IRL, there are too many other people and ships involved.

Your guy stresses throughout, his info is only a theory.

No, his theory is the last piece where he talks about the NS2 rupture being a catalyst- i.e. it forced whoever was responsible to blow NS1 ahead of plans.

That is irrelevant to Hersh's claims, and nowhere in the 3 pieces about Hersh's article does he claim it is just a "theory". Those 3 pieces are just presenting the data from AIS and other verified sources that contradict Hersh. For example, the ship Hersh claims was used to booby-trap the pipelines (the Alta) had been out of service for 10 years and was in the scrapyard.

Read them in order.

Blowing Holes in Seymour Hersh's Pipe Dream

On the surface Seymour Hersh's story looks passable, but as you dig deeper it has more holes than the Nord Stream pipeline.

oalexanderdk.substack.com

Debunking Seymour Hersh's Alta-Class claims

Every single Alta and Oksøy class ship in the Norwegian Navy was accounted for during the period where Seymour Hersh claimed one was used to plant the charges on the Nord Stream pipeline.

oalexanderdk.substack.com

Accounting for the KMN Hinnøy during BALTOPS22

The only "Alta-class" equivalent vessel present in the Baltic Sea during BALTOPS22 was the KMN Hinnøy, which can now be accounted for using AIS data and satellite imagery.

oalexanderdk.substack.com

I don't know who sabotaged the pipelines- it may well have been the US. They were never popular, with any POTUS.

All I know is there is no evidence to support Hersh's account, and a mountain of evidence that contradicts it.

 

[Ringo]

All I know is there is no evidence to support Hersh's account, and a mountain of evidence that contradicts it.

Were you laughing a lot when you wrote that?

 

[Delldude]

All I know is there is no evidence to support Hersh's account, and a mountain of evidence that contradicts it.

Lots of politicians, including Biden and Nuland making specific statements against Nordstream, and damn, it happened.

 

[para bellum]

Lots of politicians, including Biden and Nuland making specific statements against Nordstream, and damn, it happened.

As did Trump, and Obama, and Boris Johnson, and a bunch of other European leaders. George W. Bush was opposed to NS1 back in 2011.

AFAIK the Russians still blame the UK, even after Hersh's story. I haven't seen any shift in their position.

 

[Delldude]

As did Trump, and Obama, and Boris Johnson, and a bunch of other European leaders. George W. Bush was opposed to NS1 back in 2011.

AFAIK the Russians still blame the UK, even after Hersh's story. I haven't seen any shift in their position.

The only ones that count were the ones claiming Nordstream had to go and it did.

Mister Beale has an excellent update in one of his posts here.

 

[zaangalewa]

A typical answer of germans, living near nazi concentration camps, when asked, if they knew what was happening in these camps.

The Nazis would call me "Jew", atheistic superidiot, and they would think I should be ashamed to be called "Jew." So why is a nazi-like anti-Nazi like you so god damned sure in his racist thoughts I should be ashamed to be called "German" or to be called "Nazi" from a criminal like you? Who calls me a Nazi stepped with one leg into a self-made hell. Whether you believe in god or not - try to ask god for pardon and do not stop to do so until you are sure god heard you and will answer. I fear that's your only chance to leave your brutal extremism and to become a normal human being.

The Allies even had to organize tours to notify the hypocritical bastards of what was going on there.

You transported children, women, men into concentration camps of the Nazis and tried to traumatize them there. With learning had this actions nothing to do.

I read about an episode when a high-ranking American officer noticed two german girls, laughing on their way out of a concentration camp after a tour, so he ordered them driven into a ditch with dead prisoners and forced them to spend the night there.

A man with an extremely high criminal energy. Thinks really anyone German schoolgirls worked in concentration camps of the Nazis? That's absurde. Could be interesting to know what he had done if someone had done the same with his own daughters.

By the way: Also today it needs a lot of prearrangements before to visit an extermination camp of the Nazis. Otherwise no one is able to understand what had happened there on what reasons.

Back then, no one needed to be convinced about who was Evil.

The USA and their allies made an unbelievable amount of war crimes in, between and after world war 1 and 2. Germans are not proud on their crimes - but you are proud on your crimes. Why?

 

[zaangalewa]

Ringo

Now back to this what I really said - what had been "We don't know who had done so and we don't care."

Reason for this: The destruction of this pipelines is an equivalent of a declaration of war on Germany (except the Russians on their own had done so because it are their pipelines).

But what is in case someone else had done so? Germany is a NATO-member. Who declares war on a single NATO-member declares war on every NATO-member. But Germany doesn't like to see the NATO in any war - never. And in case it was a member of the NATO who had done so then this will split the NATO. And Germany doesn't like to see a splitted NATO. Worse enough to have to see a divided USA who is in danger to lose the own democracy. Same in Israel.

So about what do you really "discuss" in the USA when you like to find out who had done so?

 

[Calypso Jones]