No One Voted to Destroy Social Security

[NYcarbineer]

[

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

SS securities are backed by same full faith and credit of the US government as is any government issued bond.
The US government would default on a Chinese held bond before it defaulted on SS payments.

 

[jc456]

Trumps team is who's who of right wing billionaires.

Im waiting for trump to appoint a koch brother to something.

Kochs are the enemy.....

The Kochs are too principled to work in a pirate administration with Captn Hook. They've only been interested in clawing back the liberty and freedom that we USED to have in this country. Not some populist mini-meltdown that USES the powers and EXPANDS the powers of the Fed Govt.

What liberty do you want that you don't have?

I want a heat pump that actually produces heat when it's below 30 deg outside. Not a GOVT designed heat pump that spends all it's whimpy time defrosting when it's cold and I need heat.

I want a health plan that DOESN'T include maternity, sex reassignment therapy and psych..

I want the govt to stay OUT of my bedroom and my retirement planning and digging in my wallet to redistribute my work and contributions for "fairness"..

And I DONT want the world's most competent international spy org to be given HISTORY's LARGEST spy palace in Utah to collect every byte of domestic correspondence and making connections to my contacts and spending and habits.

I Don't want public institutions that I pay for inventing new MANDATORY pronouns for gender and mucking up the English Language..

I don't want the minions of morons in the bureaucracy writing the legislation that Congress is now too lazy to put into Bills of Law.

I could go on.. But you get the point.

You want to live somewhere else. Bye!

No, we'll work through our constitution thanks, that's the difference between us!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Please repost the link.

Private pensions invest in these securities and no one complains. The point that these securities aren't marketable is a red-herring. They have a put option in them. Making a putable bond marketable is done only by a sucker. Who would we sell the bond to if the issuer couldn't repay it? Today the system has about a dime of assets for every dollar of unfunded obligation, and you are worried about the dime?

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

The taxpayers are responsible for ALL government borrowing. The Trust Fund earns a 100 billion a year in interest.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Kochs are the enemy.....

The Kochs are too principled to work in a pirate administration with Captn Hook. They've only been interested in clawing back the liberty and freedom that we USED to have in this country. Not some populist mini-meltdown that USES the powers and EXPANDS the powers of the Fed Govt.

What liberty do you want that you don't have?

I want a heat pump that actually produces heat when it's below 30 deg outside. Not a GOVT designed heat pump that spends all it's whimpy time defrosting when it's cold and I need heat.

I want a health plan that DOESN'T include maternity, sex reassignment therapy and psych..

I want the govt to stay OUT of my bedroom and my retirement planning and digging in my wallet to redistribute my work and contributions for "fairness"..

And I DONT want the world's most competent international spy org to be given HISTORY's LARGEST spy palace in Utah to collect every byte of domestic correspondence and making connections to my contacts and spending and habits.

I Don't want public institutions that I pay for inventing new MANDATORY pronouns for gender and mucking up the English Language..

I don't want the minions of morons in the bureaucracy writing the legislation that Congress is now too lazy to put into Bills of Law.

I could go on.. But you get the point.

You want to live somewhere else. Bye!

No, we'll work through our constitution thanks, that's the difference between us!

Right. Go ahead. Try to kill SS and Medicare. Get the Republicans to put that at the top of their agenda.

 

[jc456]

The Kochs are too principled to work in a pirate administration with Captn Hook. They've only been interested in clawing back the liberty and freedom that we USED to have in this country. Not some populist mini-meltdown that USES the powers and EXPANDS the powers of the Fed Govt.

What liberty do you want that you don't have?

I want a heat pump that actually produces heat when it's below 30 deg outside. Not a GOVT designed heat pump that spends all it's whimpy time defrosting when it's cold and I need heat.

I want a health plan that DOESN'T include maternity, sex reassignment therapy and psych..

I want the govt to stay OUT of my bedroom and my retirement planning and digging in my wallet to redistribute my work and contributions for "fairness"..

And I DONT want the world's most competent international spy org to be given HISTORY's LARGEST spy palace in Utah to collect every byte of domestic correspondence and making connections to my contacts and spending and habits.

I Don't want public institutions that I pay for inventing new MANDATORY pronouns for gender and mucking up the English Language..

I don't want the minions of morons in the bureaucracy writing the legislation that Congress is now too lazy to put into Bills of Law.

I could go on.. But you get the point.

You want to live somewhere else. Bye!

No, we'll work through our constitution thanks, that's the difference between us!

Right. Go ahead. Try to kill SS and Medicare. Get the Republicans to put that at the top of their agenda.

It is fool and what we voted for. See how that works?

 

[jc456]

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

The taxpayers are responsible for ALL government borrowing. The Trust Fund earns a 100 billion a year in interest.

You do know we put in as is individuals for individuals not welfare right? Please tell me you have some knowledge of our country?

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Please repost the link.

Private pensions invest in these securities and no one complains. The point that these securities aren't marketable is a red-herring. They have a put option in them. Making a putable bond marketable is done only by a sucker. Who would we sell the bond to if the issuer couldn't repay it? Today the system has about a dime of assets for every dollar of unfunded obligation, and you are worried about the dime?

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

Social Security was moved off budget in 1990 before Clinton arrived. The idea of marketability is ideological noise. No sensible person would make a bond with a put option marketable.

You say that the sysem "Used To" hold bonds. There hasnt been a change to the mechanics of the Trust Fund since inception. There is cure for ideology. You can bold and cap as you wish, but you will not find a credible source that supports your position.

The Trustees, and you can check page 257, defend the Trust Fund accounting. They say as politely as possible that it the problem with other accounting practices - as you are espousing here - do not conform to current law.

Where did you get "It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL". Since inception the system has only generated about $500 of excess cash. The vast majority of the Trust Fund is interest, and the balance is GF subsidies.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

They balanced the budget by turning our country into a collection of day traders. CEPR is a fairly liberal outfit :

The Stock Bubble Created the Budget Surplus: Not Bill Clinton's Tax and Spending Policies

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

Your claims are not entirely true. For example:

Q: During the Clinton administration was the federal budget balanced? Was the federal deficit erased?

A: Yes to both questions, whether you count Social Security or not.

Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.

More: The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton - FactCheck.org

 

[flacaltenn]

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

Your claims are not entirely true. For example:

Q: During the Clinton administration was the federal budget balanced? Was the federal deficit erased?

A: Yes to both questions, whether you count Social Security or not.

Clinton’s large budget surpluses also owe much to the Social Security tax on payrolls. Social Security taxes now bring in more than the cost of current benefits, and the "Social Security surplus" makes the total deficit or surplus figures look better than they would if Social Security wasn’t counted. But even if we remove Social Security from the equation, there was a surplus of $1.9 billion in fiscal 1999 and $86.4 billion in fiscal 2000. So any way you count it, the federal budget was balanced and the deficit was erased, if only for a while.

More: The Budget and Deficit Under Clinton - FactCheck.org

Your fact checker doesn't respond. You need to fire it anyways..

IT'S OFFICIAL: 1999 BUDGET DEFICIT WAS $1 BILLION WITHOUT COUNTING THE SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS | The Concord Coalition


October 26, 1999
WASHINGTON -- The Concord Coalition welcomed today's news that the federal government's budget deficit shrank to just $1 billion in fiscal year 1999 without counting the Social Security surplus. However, the Coalition reminded Congress and the Administration that the surplus over and above Social Security projected for fiscal year 2000 and beyond will vanish if fiscal discipline continues to collapse.

“The numbers provided today by the U.S. Treasury Department show that the federal government's on-budget accounts were $1 billion in the red for fiscal year 1999, while the off-budget Social Security program had a $124 billion surplus over that same period. Only by combining the on-budget and off-budget numbers into a ‘unified' budget figure can it be claimed that the federal government ran a surplus for fiscal year 1999,” said Executive Director Robert Bixby.

Dammit man. Screw the fact checkers. They don't even know a surplus from a deficit for 1999.. Check your OWN facts. I SUSPECT that the number for 2000 MIGHT have shown a small surplus without stealing from SS. But if it happened in 2000, the numbers the PUBLIC HEARD the loudest -- were the ones covering the deficit spending with SS money.. .

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And noone has, the election is over. You can Stop with the bullshit, throw granny off the cliff stuff. Your scare tactics no longer have impsct, people caught on.

What these Nazis are planning is even worse than just throwing granny off the cliff.

Simmer down and get back to selling trinkets at the reservation gift store Shitting Bull.

 

[flacaltenn]

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

Social Security was moved off budget in 1990 before Clinton arrived. The idea of marketability is ideological noise. No sensible person would make a bond with a put option marketable.

You say that the sysem "Used To" hold bonds. There hasnt been a change to the mechanics of the Trust Fund since inception. There is cure for ideology. You can bold and cap as you wish, but you will not find a credible source that supports your position.

The Trustees, and you can check page 257, defend the Trust Fund accounting. They say as politely as possible that it the problem with other accounting practices - as you are espousing here - do not conform to current law.

Where did you get "It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL". Since inception the system has only generated about $500 of excess cash. The vast majority of the Trust Fund is interest, and the balance is GF subsidies.

What do think the $100Bill or more each year of surplus WAS? If not Stolen from working poor wallets and spent willy nilly on everything OTHER than putting value into the "Trust Fund". That's not chump change. It's $1.5Trill or so of MANDATORY payroll taxes.

You're peddling BULLSHIT when you post that "the system has only generated about $500 of excess cash. You're a particularly hard case, because you don't even seem to acknowledge the initial crime of the theft !!!!!!

So there's no explaining to you how you were robbed AGAIN -- once the Surpluses (overcharges) disappeared and the SSA starts running deficits in 2010 or so.. . Baby steps here. About $1.5TRILL was taken from workers as "overcharges" out of their paychecks and squandered without putting ANYTHING of value in the TF.. Can we get THAT far??

And Yes, the SSA will acknowledge that in the PAST, they did ACTUAL bond purchases from the existing market. Thus reducing fed over debt. But that practice was shortlived and terminated.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/specialissues.html

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury through their Bureau of Public Debt. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

•Special issues—available only to the trust funds
•Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.
The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

 

[flacaltenn]

Trumps team is who's who of right wing billionaires.

Im waiting for trump to appoint a koch brother to something.

Kochs are the enemy.....

The Kochs are too principled to work in a pirate administration with Captn Hook. They've only been interested in clawing back the liberty and freedom that we USED to have in this country. Not some populist mini-meltdown that USES the powers and EXPANDS the powers of the Fed Govt.

What liberty do you want that you don't have?

I want a heat pump that actually produces heat when it's below 30 deg outside. Not a GOVT designed heat pump that spends all it's whimpy time defrosting when it's cold and I need heat.

I want a health plan that DOESN'T include maternity, sex reassignment therapy and psych..

I want the govt to stay OUT of my bedroom and my retirement planning and digging in my wallet to redistribute my work and contributions for "fairness"..

And I DONT want the world's most competent international spy org to be given HISTORY's LARGEST spy palace in Utah to collect every byte of domestic correspondence and making connections to my contacts and spending and habits.

I Don't want public institutions that I pay for inventing new MANDATORY pronouns for gender and mucking up the English Language..

I don't want the minions of morons in the bureaucracy writing the legislation that Congress is now too lazy to put into Bills of Law.

I could go on.. But you get the point.

You want to live somewhere else. Bye!

OH HELL NO.. I want the Fed Govt to focus on it's PRIMARY CONSTITUTIONAL duties. Just like the deal we USED to have. When kid's when would taunt each with the phrase --- "It's a free country, I can do it if I want".

I want the Power Whores and the meddlers and the busybodies to focus on borders, defense, civil rights, and criminal law. And MAYBE on assuring fair, accurate, and fraud free elections. And fiscal responsibility. Close DOWN that ENORMOUS spy organization in Utah -- and give it to the people to MONITOR THE GOVT !!!

That's what I want..

 

[flacaltenn]

[

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

SS securities are backed by same full faith and credit of the US government as is any government issued bond.
The US government would default on a Chinese held bond before it defaulted on SS payments.

I know you've been told that. They just and tell you how much "cash" is in the TF and then you again and tell you don't worry about. ******* Harry the Reid told you the same thing I'm telling you when he had an honest moment. You were ROBBED for 30 years of REAL WALLET cash. It was spent. NOTHING OF VALUE was created or invested.

When the Treas sells a bond to China, the interest on that bond is booked EVERY YEAR as REAL expense on the budget. It gets paid EVERY FUNCKING year. Nothing of sort ever happened with the "SS IOUs". If the Chinese lose full faith and credit in the US -- THEY can sell the asset. We can't.. Because the SSA hold no real bonds.

So NOW -- when SSA needs cash to cover shortfalls, they sell a NEW BOND to china to cover it. And who pays for that bond? YOU DO.. WITH the phony calculated interest and with the NEW interest to China for paying your SS check. It's a scam of gigantic proportions to get the victims to PAY for the theft -- isn't it?

Maybe this is too complex for brainwashed folks to understand. And they DEPEND on your placid stupidity to get away with the demagoguing about "not touching Soc Sec". It's been touched all right. It was pilfered and have you you all just where they want you...

 

[flacaltenn]

The links are at post #34.. Bonds were NEVER PURCHASED.. There is nothing to "put" or to shove. The quotes from SSA are REAL.. There is NOTHING OF VALUE in the Trust Fund to pay bills with. All that phoney "interest" is reincorporated into NEW debt principal. It's a book-keeping sham.

For every current "SS deficit" dollar -- FUTURE taxpayers are paying double interest and principle on the stolen surplus.

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

It is a truly stupid statement as the following adaptation will display :

"Neither the redemption of bonds held by China, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

I think it is a clip that deals with Trust Funds where the obligations are government obligations. Social Security isn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever -- especially for an economist. When China buys our debt, THEY get an asset. A REAL fungible asset with interest. When the Treasury SELLS that asset to China (to cover ANY SS income shortfall) , the taxpayers who were robbed of the SS Surplus get to PAY for the money that WAS STOLEN FROM THEM -- with double interest.

Are you OK? Really? You thought that "fixed it"???

Sounds like you don't understand the quote either.

The Treasury Dept does not pay Social Security benefits. It is a Trustee which collects them. It lends excess (and there hasn't been much) to the government just like every brokerage in America does. When Social Security owns a bond, that bond is owned by Social Security and is no different from the bond owned by China or Japan.

I would agree with you if Social Security were a government program rather than a government run program. If it were a government program, the benefits would be available to all Americans. The benefits would be equal. They aren't. The system requires participation, where you have to pay to collect. The promises of the program are not liabilities of the government as a whole.

The system is no different than say the state requirement to buy auto insurance. Those insurers are simply better run, and did not give away free cash.

You have a very ideological view of the system that seems disconnected from facts. I can't fix that.

You can't do basic accounting. Social Security OWNS "no treasury bonds" .. They USED to. But the Stolen Surplus is booked as "intra-departmental debt".. It has no VALUE whatsoever. Not at all like the Chinese holding paper of value that can be sold and traded.

But that's not the nut of the deception here. The DECEPTION behind the fraud, is that DEBT was never BOOKED on the Treasury when Congress STOLE the surplus for 30 years. Stealing the surplus was the only way that Clinton and Gingrich claimed a "balanced budget" in the 90s. The SS was never credited with anything tangible to repay future deficits. It's a paper sham. Held in literally a set of file cabinets with binders of IOUs that are MEANINGLESS in terms of the ability to pay CURRENT deficit income to SSA...

So just like the NEW bonds that China buys. Now that SS is in deficit income mode, It's the SAME WORKERS who had their paychecks stolen for nearly $1 TRILL, that are responsible for REPAYING the IOUs.

Quite a trick. To get the victims of the theft to repay the crime with INTEREST and NEW INTEREST to China 30 years later isn't it?

That's why those words are buried in the BACK PAGES of every annual SSA report. So that sophisticated investors who actually READ their investment prospectus carefully understand the nature of the scam.

Here's the "confession" again..

"Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

So -- has the govt "increased taxation" -- no.. Has it reduced govt spending? HELL no. Well gee. It must BE that they are making "additional borrowing from the public"..

The Feds simply cannot trusted with "Trust Funds". . They are ALL pillaged and stripped bear to show annual general accounting that was reduced by the theft of the surplus. Isn't just SSA.. The Indian Lands Trust Fund is bare. The Highway Trust Fund --- raided and pillaged.

And CURRENT AND FUTURE TAXPAYERS are TOTALLY responsible now for every penny of the thefts.
NOTHING of value was ever bought, stored, or invested.

The taxpayers are responsible for ALL government borrowing. The Trust Fund earns a 100 billion a year in interest.

NONE of that phony interest has ever been paid or put on the books. Not a penny. They left all that to FUTURE taxpayers to cover their theft..

Have you ever SEEN the Soc Sec Trust Fund? GW Bush did a photo op at the place where all this "loot" is stored.

WARNING -- The Following Images may be disturbing to some..

No Marine guards. No Fort Knox security. Basically a couple old filing cabinets with keypad locks.
There's your $100Bill per year in interest right there.. A bunch of phony accounting in binders with nothing marketable or redeemable. .

 

[flacaltenn]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft and their children and grandkids. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

 

[owebo]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

It will be interesting to see Trumps take on the secret Clinton 3-lock box....Trump simply doesn't give a **** as long as it's in the best interest of the people....and in this case, the t Utah is about the only thing left in the 3-lock box....on top of IOU's of IOU's for IOU's.......

 

[flacaltenn]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

It will be interesting to see Trumps take on the secret Clinton 3-lock box....Trump simply doesn't give a **** as long as it's in the best interest of the people....and in this case, the t Utah is about the only thing left in the 3-lock box....on top of IOU's of IOU's for IOU's.......

Don't know where on the priorities that is with this clown. It'll cost him political capital just to MENTION SS. And frankly, the time has passed to avert the crisis that they TOLD US was coming for decades. The time to FIX stuff was when their were surpluses that could have been invested in ideas to defer costs. Those suggestions were KILLED by partisan bickering and an unwillingness to confront the theft.

As an example -- IF the surplus had been used to buy back EXISTING BONDS from the marketplace, that would have reduced the overall Fed debt and put us $TRILLs ahead in our ability to cover the shortfall. A REAL investment of the overcharges.

OR -- the proposal in 2001 was to allow some volunteers to opt out a SMALL FRACTION of their contributions (all covered by the surplus money coming from workers wallets) in exchange for greatly FUTURE benefits paid to them. That fantastic idea was DOA because of tribal bickering.. And propaganda. And the smearing like the OP of this thread.

 

[Lakhota]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

It will be interesting to see Trumps take on the secret Clinton 3-lock box....Trump simply doesn't give a **** as long as it's in the best interest of the people....and in this case, the t Utah is about the only thing left in the 3-lock box....on top of IOU's of IOU's for IOU's.......

Don't know where on the priorities that is with this clown. It'll cost him political capital just to MENTION SS. And frankly, the time has passed to avert the crisis that they TOLD US was coming for decades. The time to FIX stuff was when their were surpluses that could have been invested in ideas to defer costs. Those suggestions were KILLED by partisan bickering and an unwillingness to confront the theft.

As an example -- IF the surplus had been used to buy back EXISTING BONDS from the marketplace, that would have reduced the overall Fed debt and put us $TRILLs ahead in our ability to cover the shortfall. A REAL investment of the overcharges.

OR -- the proposal in 2001 was to allow some volunteers to opt out a SMALL FRACTION of their contributions (all covered by the surplus money coming from workers wallets) in exchange for greatly FUTURE benefits paid to them. That fantastic idea was DOA because of tribal bickering.. And propaganda. And the smearing like the OP of this thread.

We are where we are! Do you want to abolish Social Security? If so, what would you want to replace it with?

 

[flacaltenn]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

It will be interesting to see Trumps take on the secret Clinton 3-lock box....Trump simply doesn't give a **** as long as it's in the best interest of the people....and in this case, the t Utah is about the only thing left in the 3-lock box....on top of IOU's of IOU's for IOU's.......

Don't know where on the priorities that is with this clown. It'll cost him political capital just to MENTION SS. And frankly, the time has passed to avert the crisis that they TOLD US was coming for decades. The time to FIX stuff was when their were surpluses that could have been invested in ideas to defer costs. Those suggestions were KILLED by partisan bickering and an unwillingness to confront the theft.

As an example -- IF the surplus had been used to buy back EXISTING BONDS from the marketplace, that would have reduced the overall Fed debt and put us $TRILLs ahead in our ability to cover the shortfall. A REAL investment of the overcharges.

OR -- the proposal in 2001 was to allow some volunteers to opt out a SMALL FRACTION of their contributions (all covered by the surplus money coming from workers wallets) in exchange for greatly FUTURE benefits paid to them. That fantastic idea was DOA because of tribal bickering.. And propaganda. And the smearing like the OP of this thread.

We are where we are! Do you want to abolish Social Security? If so, what would you want to replace it with?

I did my part to avoid this crisis. I backed several plans from CATO and other think tanks to USE that SS surplus to the BENEFIT of Soc Sec. The Libertarian Party CAMPAIGNED on attempting to make folks aware of the mismanagement.

YOU -- (the Dems) BLEW AWAY each and every proposal to use the SS surplus to "save" the stolen monies whenever YOU guys were in power. And prevented others from "touching it" by doing the same "scare tactics" that started this thread. Too late now. The burden will felt and the truth will spread.

Which means the NEXT time you lefties want a "Universal" anything, the people will remember the promises made on "Universal Retirement Insurance" and how they were broken..

 

[owebo]

Let me put this in perspective of the Tribal pissing match that this thread was about.
SS is untouchable, NOT because it can't be fixed, tuned and managed. Or converted to a true entitlement program for the needy. It can't be touched because the truth of it's mismanagement and how it's been ignored would light off a revolution of awareness in the American people.

Why do you think it is that B.H.Obama doesn't DEFEND his massive debts that are being run up? Because HONESTLY -- a large fraction of his debt is the recent SS shortfalls that he helped to start early with his '09 "tax breaks" for folks who pay NOTHING to the Fed other than FICA taxes. He doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that now yearly deficits of $30 or $60Bill in FICA revenue is a large part of his debt contribution.

Because even the slow learners would have to ask why the taxpayers are paying for the SS shortfalls when they've been told that there are $$TRills in SS TF "assets". And that those deficits are being paid NOW for by the VICTIMS of the original theft. Instead of being invested or used to reduced debt or used to defer costs when the working people were being OVERCHARGED for Soc Sec for 30 years or more.

It's all political posturing because they fucked it up. And nobody wants to FOCUS on fixing it for the future.

It will be interesting to see Trumps take on the secret Clinton 3-lock box....Trump simply doesn't give a **** as long as it's in the best interest of the people....and in this case, the t Utah is about the only thing left in the 3-lock box....on top of IOU's of IOU's for IOU's.......

Don't know where on the priorities that is with this clown. It'll cost him political capital just to MENTION SS. And frankly, the time has passed to avert the crisis that they TOLD US was coming for decades. The time to FIX stuff was when their were surpluses that could have been invested in ideas to defer costs. Those suggestions were KILLED by partisan bickering and an unwillingness to confront the theft.

As an example -- IF the surplus had been used to buy back EXISTING BONDS from the marketplace, that would have reduced the overall Fed debt and put us $TRILLs ahead in our ability to cover the shortfall. A REAL investment of the overcharges.

OR -- the proposal in 2001 was to allow some volunteers to opt out a SMALL FRACTION of their contributions (all covered by the surplus money coming from workers wallets) in exchange for greatly FUTURE benefits paid to them. That fantastic idea was DOA because of tribal bickering.. And propaganda. And the smearing like the OP of this thread.

We are where we are! Do you want to abolish Social Security? If so, what would you want to replace it with?

Yes....401k's....