No human will ever return from Mars, or get there

[Robert W]

Didn't the NY Times once declare we would never go to the moon?

I have no clue. Wonder if they still say that? We have nuts who daily say we never got there.

 

[fncceo]

Does nuclear have a role?

Not if you mean nuclear power. It’s not a solution for moving large amounts of mass off the Earth.

 

[braalian]

The thread title is nonsensical

Not being able to get there makes the ‘not being able to return’ part unnecessary

 

[Robert W]

Not if you mean nuclear power. It’s not a solution for moving large amounts of mass off the Earth.

I was asking about it. One thing about Nuclear is it is very long lasting and powers ships and does a lot of good things.

 

[fncceo]

I was asking about it. One thing about Nuclear is it is very long lasting and powers ships and does a lot of good things.

It can provide long lasting propulsion to ship already in space.

It’s not practical for getting things INTO space.

 

[fncceo]

The thread title is nonsensical

Not being able to get there makes the ‘not being able to return’ part unnecessary

We have sent many unmanned vehicles to Mars, many of which have landed on the surface. Doing with it with a live human is significantly more complex and expensive, but it’s physically the same problem. So getting people to Mars is a very surmountable problem.

The environment of Mars is not conducive to human health and human bodies would significantly deteriorate from lack of gravity on the way there and back. That being said, humans have spent a lot more time in Earth orbit that the trip would require and returned to Earht, worse for wear, but alive.

Spending months on Mars however would not be kind to a human body.

 

[toobfreak]

Actually, rocket technology hasn’t fundamentally changed in 80 years.

The problem remains the same: Rockets are 85% fuel, 12% vehicle and maybe 2% payload. And if you want to carry 4% payload, you end up needing 4X the rocket and fuel.

Space ships need to be more like 50% payload, and they need to not entirely carry all their fuel with them for the round trip. They need to be powered by energy that is already out there that is auto-renewing.

Our missions are insanely constrained: we can only take off under ideal conditions, need to follow a specific trajectory, cannot afford the slightest issue nor deviation, then must return at just the appointed time taking no detours, no delays, with just barely enough (by a thread) to get back home. Those are very bad odds.

Our missions are an insane gamble: going to the Moon, we barely beat the 95% odds that we would fail--- so unlikely was our success in getting to the Moon, landing, and getting back that the Russians got wise and gave up entirely.

We stupidly forged ahead willing to risk almost anything out of national pride.

There is no fudge factor in going to Mars; as it stands, somewhere around 75% of all attempts to even send a robotic probe to Mars just to land and look around have failed.

 

[Yarddog]

Ion thrusters

The Most Powerful Ion Engine Ever Built Passes the Test

www.universetoday.com

possibly if we ever manage to perfect Fusion reactors , we could have craft that run on mini fusion engines. It could be a limitless energy source.

 

[Robert W]

possibly if we ever manage to perfect Fusion reactors , we could have craft that run on mini fusion engines. It could be a limitless energy source.

Our best scientists can't make fusion work.

 

[Yarddog]

Our best scientists can't make fusion work.

Well its a big POSSIBLY then.Who knows.. still there might be more scientific advancement.

 

[Robert W]

Well its a big POSSIBLY then.Who knows.. still there might be more scientific advancement.

I have had a long-term interest in the Lawrence Livermore Labs since a long time ago, I applied to work there and was accepted. To be a mechanical technician. The lab has struggled for decades to make fusion work. The best on earth work there and still can't make it work, commercially at any rate.

 

[Yarddog]

I have had a long-term interest in the Lawrence Livermore Labs since a long time ago, I applied to work there and was accepted. To be a mechanical technician. The lab has struggled for decades to make fusion work. The best on earth work there and still can't make it work, commercially at any rate.

LOL.. I worked in Berkeley for years, our machine shop used to make parts for Livermore labs every once in a while. hope it wasnt our fault.

 

[Robert W]

LOL.. I worked in Berkeley for years, our machine shop used to make parts for Livermore labs every once in a while. hope it wasnt our fault.

The rest of the story is after I met with the party at Lawrence to be hired, I needed immediate work and also went to GM and they hired me on the spot, so I was working for GM when a week or two later the labs called my parents' home to talk to me. Mom let the cat out of the bag that at that moment I was working at GM. So I got home and called the lab and was told since I was already working for GM, they hired a student from CAL. They called to tell me I was hired and mom basically killed my chances.

Later I owned a Machine shop yet never went to the Lawrence Labs seeking work from them. I knew from my earlier interview that they have a great machine shop making their own parts. Did you hear of Parsons Automatic Scale? I made a lot of parts and machines for them. Also, same thing for Fiberboard Corp.

 

[martybegan]

I have no clue. Wonder if they still say that? We have nuts who daily say we never got there.

And this guy is saying the same type of stuff.

Never trust an absolutist.

 

[Robert W]

Here is more to consider before you volunteer to go to Mars.

 

[Sparker]

If a Mars trip was possible, it would have been done decades ago when America spent massively on the space race and relevant fields of science education. Americans then were scientifically educated enough to know it can't be done, so they stopped caring so much about space travel. Now, people of a less scientifically educated nation are trying to restart the hype because they need space travel to sustain progressive beliefs. But we still have plenty of empty land with harsh climates, in Antarctica, Greenland, deserts, mountain ranges, etc. We can spend huge amounts of money to put people there with some months of supplies.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Just watched this.

It explains a lot.

In particular the biology aspect.

 

[toobfreak]

Just watched this. It explains a lot.
In particular the biology aspect.

David pretty much nails all aspects of the situation. He is getting old now, boy, I will sure miss his books and programming when he is gone. The practicality of a Mars mission with all of the details he accurately lays out, I estimate that between building a lunar base first from which to launch to Mars with (better than launching from Earth, which he somehow leaves out), and from there developing, assembling and preparing all for a Martian voyage, I figure approximately another century before martian manned missions with a high degree of probability for success are likely.

 

[Robert W]

David pretty much nails all aspects of the situation. He is getting old now, boy, I will sure miss his books and programming when he is gone. The practicality of a Mars mission with all of the details he accurately lays out, I estimate that between building a lunar base first from which to launch to Mars with (better than launching from Earth, which he somehow leaves out), and from there developing, assembling and preparing all for a Martian voyage, I figure approximately another century before martian manned missions with a high degree of probability for success are likely.

Will it be worth flying parts to the moon, fuels and building a moon base for the supply missions to the moon? Food too. They must eat.

 

[toobfreak]

Will it be worth flying parts to the moon, fuels and building a moon base for the supply missions to the moon? Food too. They must eat.

That is the surprising missing part of the story. Attenborough only dealt with the problems of direct launch from the Earth to Mars, but over time, a permanent base can be built on the Moon with greater and greater capability. It is just so much better and easier to launch from there.

But that takes time. One must build the facilities there to both mine, manufacture and use resources already there on the Moon first, ship only what we need. There is an initial investment that pays for itself over time the more and longer you use it,

Not only does lunar launch cut off some of the travel time and opportunities we have but there is just so much less gravity and weather there to deal with.