No historical Jesus

[Boss]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

Scholars seem to agree that the Gospels, as we know them today, were written 70s, 80s, 90s. Were there earlier editions? Some feel there were, but let's lay that point aside.

Paul's first letter to the Corinthians was written 56 A.D. Chapter 15 of that letter begins by listing truths Paul states were given to him. When did Paul get these truths? Acts tells us that Paul was given these truths a couple of years after Christ died. In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul writes:

For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: That Christ died for our sins in accordance with scriptures; that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared to Kephas (Peter), then to the Twelve, After that he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. (1 Corinthians 15:3-7)

We see that Christians didn't start creating legendary stories fifty years after-the-fact. They were teaching the truths about Jesus immediately following his death and resurrection.

 

[HaShev]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

See you are easilly fooled by the use of real figures to make the image seem historical, but that does not make the icon a real singular historical figure.
Repost of my example in hopes you grasp this.

Difference Between Real People & Fictional Characters

A character (or fictional character) is a person in a
narrative work (such as a novel, or passion play).
I KEEP HEARING PEOPLE COMMENT THAT:
Although Rome borrowed legends and customs of
many cultures and infused them into Christianity
that Jesus still actually historically existed or was
based on someone who did. This is not an honest
assesment since being based on many figures and
mythologies/deities does not make you based on a
singular historical figure to say you existed as that
singular figure.
Let me use an analogy:
Larry David writes a Tv Pilot for Jerry Seinfeld, now
Jerry in the TV show is loosely based on the real
Jerry but since Larry David's sense of humor is in
the comedic irony it's also Larry David making the
Jerry image in the stories /scripts.
Now one could argue Jerry exists, but he's not the
King of comedy without Larry David nor is TV Jerry
an actual person. That could he argued.
Same with Kramer being based mostly on a friend
of Larry David, but once again the TV Kramer is
not special without Larry David.
HOWEVER here's where you guys mess up your
logic; suppose you have George based on former
comedic Tv and movie fictional Figures mixed with
the quirks and stories of a few real figures like
Gregory, GEOFFRY, AND Harry. These converged
figures can't have their real names like Kramer and
Jerry have, so they get a new name, new birthdate
as well.
They have 3 jobs so the character needs his own
new job or has all 3 jobs through the seasons as he
get's fired from each one. *L* Even George owes
his image to the writer Larry David for even though
George is written to he Italian, he shows the traits
of the Jewish writer.
So now is George real, did George Castanza exist
as a singular historical person?
If you said yes then go sit on santa clauses lap-
and here's your sign that says "I RIDE THE SHORT
BUS"

 

[Boss]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

See you are easilly fooled by the use of real figures to make the image seem historical, but that does not make the icon a real singular historical figure.
Repost of my example in hopes you grasp this.

Difference Between Real People & Fictional Characters

A character (or fictional character) is a person in a
narrative work (such as a novel, or passion play).
I KEEP HEARING PEOPLE COMMENT THAT:
Although Rome borrowed legends and customs of
many cultures and infused them into Christianity
that Jesus still actually historically existed or was
based on someone who did. This is not an honest
assesment since being based on many figures and
mythologies/deities does not make you based on a
singular historical figure to say you existed as that
singular figure.
Let me use an analogy:
Larry David writes a Tv Pilot for Jerry Seinfeld, now
Jerry in the TV show is loosely based on the real
Jerry but since Larry David's sense of humor is in
the comedic irony it's also Larry David making the
Jerry image in the stories /scripts.
Now one could argue Jerry exists, but he's not the
King of comedy without Larry David nor is TV Jerry
an actual person. That could he argued.
Same with Kramer being based mostly on a friend
of Larry David, but once again the TV Kramer is
not special without Larry David.
HOWEVER here's where you guys mess up your
logic; suppose you have George based on former
comedic Tv and movie fictional Figures mixed with
the quirks and stories of a few real figures like
Gregory, GEOFFRY, AND Harry. These converged
figures can't have their real names like Kramer and
Jerry have, so they get a new name, new birthdate
as well.
They have 3 jobs so the character needs his own
new job or has all 3 jobs through the seasons as he
get's fired from each one. *L* Even George owes
his image to the writer Larry David for even though
George is written to he Italian, he shows the traits
of the Jewish writer.
So now is George real, did George Castanza exist
as a singular historical person?
If you said yes then go sit on santa clauses lap-
and here's your sign that says "I RIDE THE SHORT
BUS"

Yeahhh... I'm not gunna read unformatted bullshit... formatted bullshit is bad enough.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Sounds like a personal problem to me. There are many who don't share that particular problem with you. Work it out.

Which part?

The part where I believe that the ancient Arab tales of Jesus are fiction, or the part where I believe that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Middle Eastern life 2,000 + years ago?

 

[skye]

Historical Jesus means a lot to me...way back then ..in the Roman Empire times....I can visualize him so well ..and adore him and follow him...

had I lived then.... I would be one of his followers ...give my life for HIM

 

[Indeependent]

Here are some Roman references to Jesus.

Pliny the Younger
Pliny was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia, in present-day Turkey. In about 112 AD, he wrote (in Epistles X.96) to the emperor Trajan, asking for advice on how to deal with the Christians in his province, because he was executing so many of them. Pliny wrote:

'They were in the habit of meeting before dawn on a fixed day. They would recite in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a God, and would bind themselves by a solemn oath, not to do any criminal act, but rather that they would not commit any fraud, theft or adultery, nor betray any trust nor refuse to restore a deposit on demand. This done, they would disperse, and then they would meet again later to eat together (but the food was quite ordinary and harmless.)

From the annals of the Roman historian Tacitus. Annal 15:44

15.44.2. But, despite kindly influence, despite the leader's generous handouts, despite appeasing the gods, the scandal did not subside, rather the blaze came to be believed to be an official act. So, in order to quash the rumour, Nero blamed it on, and applied the cruellest punishments to, those sinners, whom ordinary people call Christians, hating them for their shameful behaviour.
15.44.3. The originator of this name, Christ, was sentenced to torture by Procurator Pontius Pilate, during the reign of Tiberius, but although checked for a moment, the deadly cult erupted again, not just in Judaea, the source of its evil, but even in Rome, where all the sins and scandals of the world gather and are glorified.

The following is the text from the works of Josephus that describes Jesus and mentions the crucifixion.
It is considered to be a falsification inserted by the early Christians. Obviously a hand written text could be fixed by scribes at any time in the approximately 1500 years the manuscript existed before printing was invented.
But that is no reason not to give it consideration.

The following text is from Flavius Josephus (c37-100AD)
The Antiquities of the Jews. Book 18.3.3

Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

When I have time I'll look up where you entire post has been laid to rest.
Josephus has ZERO references to Yeshua...ZERO.

 

[Indeependent]

The Gospels are the sole source of information about a historical Jesus. Everything that we know about Jesus and Christianity depends on that source. Confucius 6th century BC Chinese sage and founder of Confucianism from the Analects “love thy neighbor as thyself. Do nothing to thy neighbor, which thou wouldst not have him do to thee hereafter”. These verses were not original to the gospels. Nobody knows when they were written or who wrote them. The Bible-based religions we now have (Catholic or Protestant) are nothing like the Hebrew religion of the church established at Jerusalem. The practices of this first Jewish church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown. In its place are doctrines of Christianity, which was begun by Constantine. In Matthew and Mark the Romans crucify Jesus, but in Luke and John it is the Jews who crucify him.

Numbers 23:19 states that God is not a man. God was not born, and God certainly did not die.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were being written in 150 BCE and continued until 70 CE, a period of 220 years. During those years 872 scrolls were written in Hebrew and Aramaic by the peoples of Qumran. The supposed life of Jesus was between 2 BCE and 36 CE (38 years) and the Great Temple of the Jews in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE. These dates are important for understanding the importance of what the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed. After scholars completed the translation work on the Dead Sea Scrolls a very important fact was obvious.

Nowhere in the Dead Sea Scrolls was the name of Jesus mentioned, and Christianity had no support in the translations. The Dead Sea Scrolls challenged the two most fundamental beliefs of Christianity: the uniqueness of Jesus Christ and Christianity as the embodiment of the message of Christ. The scrolls make no mention of Jesus or that the ‘Jesus message’ originated with him.

The dead sea scrolls didn't give Jesus' phone number either, but is He mentioned? Yes.

Grant R. Jeffrey Ministries

I read Hebrew (the Language of the Dead Sea Scrolls) and it doesn't.
Take 3 months to learn Hebrew and you'll realize it doesn't.

 

[HaShev]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

See you are easilly fooled by the use of real figures to make the image seem historical, but that does not make the icon a real singular historical figure.
Repost of my example in hopes you grasp this.

Difference Between Real People & Fictional Characters

A character (or fictional character) is a person in a
narrative work (such as a novel, or passion play).
I KEEP HEARING PEOPLE COMMENT THAT:
Although Rome borrowed legends and customs of
many cultures and infused them into Christianity
that Jesus still actually historically existed or was
based on someone who did. This is not an honest
assesment since being based on many figures and
mythologies/deities does not make you based on a
singular historical figure to say you existed as that
singular figure.
Let me use an analogy:
Larry David writes a Tv Pilot for Jerry Seinfeld, now
Jerry in the TV show is loosely based on the real
Jerry but since Larry David's sense of humor is in
the comedic irony it's also Larry David making the
Jerry image in the stories /scripts.
Now one could argue Jerry exists, but he's not the
King of comedy without Larry David nor is TV Jerry
an actual person. That could he argued.
Same with Kramer being based mostly on a friend
of Larry David, but once again the TV Kramer is
not special without Larry David.
HOWEVER here's where you guys mess up your
logic; suppose you have George based on former
comedic Tv and movie fictional Figures mixed with
the quirks and stories of a few real figures like
Gregory, GEOFFRY, AND Harry. These converged
figures can't have their real names like Kramer and
Jerry have, so they get a new name, new birthdate
as well.
They have 3 jobs so the character needs his own
new job or has all 3 jobs through the seasons as he
get's fired from each one. *L* Even George owes
his image to the writer Larry David for even though
George is written to he Italian, he shows the traits
of the Jewish writer.
So now is George real, did George Castanza exist
as a singular historical person?
If you said yes then go sit on santa clauses lap-
and here's your sign that says "I RIDE THE SHORT
BUS"

Yeahhh... I'm not gunna read unformatted bullshit... formatted bullshit is bad enough.

That was the dumbest excuse you can ever make, but also trashes your faith who couldn't properly format their stories and get them straight (50 thousand errors & contradictions in the NT).
Your human ego said that, otherwise you'd have to admit children who know Santa doesn't exist are smarter and more rational then you.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

That's what 'believing' is all about...

Weighing the evidence we see, hear, feel and taste against the conclusions of others and then withdrawing to the privacy of our own minds to decide what is shit and what is Shinola.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't doubt that Jesus of Nazareth lived a Monkey life and died on a Roman cross.

It's the stories written 50 odd years after his death declaring him to be God in flesh that I find difficult to swallow.

If A Tomb Was Found...? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I agree, but the OP is claiming Jesus never existed. I find that harder to believe than the belief he was God in the flesh, to be honest. It's right up there with the nuts who believe we never landed on the moon or George W. Bush staged 9-11.... it's just kooky conspiracy theory and some people believe it.

I do think it is a fascinating and candid look at how people's beliefs work. Evidence is subjective, it's dependent upon whether we see it as legitimate or valid and to what degree. People will say, "I believe this because there is proof..." but the "proof" is simply evidence you accepted as proof.

See you are easilly fooled by the use of real figures to make the image seem historical, but that does not make the icon a real singular historical figure.
Repost of my example in hopes you grasp this.

Difference Between Real People & Fictional Characters

A character (or fictional character) is a person in a
narrative work (such as a novel, or passion play).
I KEEP HEARING PEOPLE COMMENT THAT:
Although Rome borrowed legends and customs of
many cultures and infused them into Christianity
that Jesus still actually historically existed or was
based on someone who did. This is not an honest
assesment since being based on many figures and
mythologies/deities does not make you based on a
singular historical figure to say you existed as that
singular figure.
Let me use an analogy:
Larry David writes a Tv Pilot for Jerry Seinfeld, now
Jerry in the TV show is loosely based on the real
Jerry but since Larry David's sense of humor is in
the comedic irony it's also Larry David making the
Jerry image in the stories /scripts.
Now one could argue Jerry exists, but he's not the
King of comedy without Larry David nor is TV Jerry
an actual person. That could he argued.
Same with Kramer being based mostly on a friend
of Larry David, but once again the TV Kramer is
not special without Larry David.
HOWEVER here's where you guys mess up your
logic; suppose you have George based on former
comedic Tv and movie fictional Figures mixed with
the quirks and stories of a few real figures like
Gregory, GEOFFRY, AND Harry. These converged
figures can't have their real names like Kramer and
Jerry have, so they get a new name, new birthdate
as well.
They have 3 jobs so the character needs his own
new job or has all 3 jobs through the seasons as he
get's fired from each one. *L* Even George owes
his image to the writer Larry David for even though
George is written to he Italian, he shows the traits
of the Jewish writer.
So now is George real, did George Castanza exist
as a singular historical person?
If you said yes then go sit on santa clauses lap-
and here's your sign that says "I RIDE THE SHORT
BUS"

Yeahhh... I'm not gunna read unformatted bullshit... formatted bullshit is bad enough.

That was the dumbest excuse you can ever make, but also trashes your faith who couldn't properly format their stories and get them straight (50 thousand errors & contradictions in the NT).
Your human ego said that, otherwise you'd have to admit children who know Santa doesn't exist are smarter and more rational then you.

I beg of you not to entice Boss to reply with one of his 16 paragraph postings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[skye]

so much fun...be with HIM ..walk with HIM.....love HIM follow him....

back then in the Roman Empire....

like a flower child for Jesus....so beautiful.....

 

[Indeependent]

so much fun...be with HIM ..walk with HIM.....love HIM follow him....

back then in the Roman Empire....

like a flower child for Jesus....so beautiful.....

I will presume you haven't read TNT as Jesus comes off like a whining spoiled brat Liberal.
I'm not lying...it's available online.

 

[skye]

so much fun...be with HIM ..walk with HIM.....love HIM follow him....

back then in the Roman Empire....

like a flower child for Jesus....so beautiful.....

I will presume you haven't read TNT as Jesus comes off like a whining spoiled brat Liberal.
I'm not lying...it's available online.

Jesus is not liberal or anything

Jesus is LOVE ......and by LOVE I mean HE Loves everybody.....Jesus is Light and Love.

works for me.

 

[Indeependent]

so much fun...be with HIM ..walk with HIM.....love HIM follow him....

back then in the Roman Empire....

like a flower child for Jesus....so beautiful.....

I will presume you haven't read TNT as Jesus comes off like a whining spoiled brat Liberal.
I'm not lying...it's available online.

Jesus is not liberal or anything

Jesus is LOVE ......and by LOVE I mean HE Loves everybody.....Jesus is Light and Love.

works for me.

I presume you haven't read TNT.
You are miming TRCC non-Scriptural version of TNT; it sells better.

 

[skye]

I think Jesus...didn't want to be remember as Jesus....

HE Wanted to be remember as LOVE.

 

[Indeependent]

I think Jesus...didn't want to be remember as Jesus....

HE Wanted to be remember as LOVE.

Wash, rinse, repeat...I presume you haven't read TNT.
Actually, you might be correct but "Saint" Paul makes J into a real piece of work.
We'll never know.

 

[jillian]

Well, this thread will no doubt change many Christian minds...

Are the threads on this board intended to change minds?

 

[skye]

I love Jesus because he was humble....

HE didn't give a shit about names and things...

That's why I don;t like organized religion

I love Jesus as he was humble and full of love never caring about history and shit

 

[jillian]

I think Jesus...didn't want to be remember as Jesus....

HE Wanted to be remember as LOVE.

I think he'd have preferred being remembered by his actual name -- Yeshua