No due process needed

[jon_berzerk]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

 

[martybegan]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

 

[Votto]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

This does not surprise me in the least.

Why do you fear the progressive utopia? Do you have something to hide perhaps?

 

[Oldguy]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

 

[jon_berzerk]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

 

[Oldguy]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

problem is

you may not get to read the bill

until after it becomes law

 

[mudwhistle]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

Doesn't matter if it's in there. Nothing stops them from putting it there after signing. This is how 20,000 pages of new regulations were added to the "Affordable Health Care Act" last month. Nobody really knows how many pages Obamacare is anymore. Same goes for anything else they produce. Pretty soon you could be a felon and not even know it.

 

[Votto]

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

I would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible God would probably also fit the bill.

Now where did I put that straight jacket.......

 

[jon_berzerk]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

Doesn't matter if it's in there. Nothing stops them from putting it there after signing. This is how 20,000 pages of new regulations were added to the "Affordable Health Care Act" last month. Nobody really knows how many pages Obamacare is anymore. Same goes for anything else they produce. Pretty soon you could be a felon and not even know it.

exactly

one may not even know they have been added to the list

until either the cops show up to take the guns

or get denied when they go to buy one

 

[jon_berzerk]

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

I would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible God would probably also fit the bill.

Now where did I put that straight jacket.......

one has to wonder

why does this need to be in the bill

if due process is followed

>>Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.<<

 

[ba1614]

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

problem is

you may not get to read the bill

until after it becomes law

Pass it then you can see what's in it, sounds familiar don't it?

 

[jon_berzerk]

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

problem is

you may not get to read the bill

until after it becomes law

Pass it then you can see what's in it, sounds familiar don't it?

yes it has that familiar ring to it

 

[Votto]

From your link:

"...and the violently mentally ill..."

Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.

I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.

I would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible God would probably also fit the bill.

Now where did I put that straight jacket.......

one has to wonder

why does this need to be in the bill

if due process is followed

>>Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.<<

I envision a progressive utopia where just saying something politically incorrect will land you on a "list" where people will refuse to hire you.

Imagine. Maybe someday you will join them, and the world will be one.......

 

[jon_berzerk]

i would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible god would probably also fit the bill.

Now where did i put that straight jacket.......

one has to wonder

why does this need to be in the bill

if due process is followed

>>provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in nics when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.<<

i envision a progressive utopia where just saying something politically incorrect will land you on a "list" where people will refuse to hire you.

Imagine. Maybe someday you will join them, and the world will be one.......

--lol

 

[Votto]

one has to wonder

why does this need to be in the bill

if due process is followed

>>provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in nics when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.<<

i envision a progressive utopia where just saying something politically incorrect will land you on a "list" where people will refuse to hire you.

Imagine. Maybe someday you will join them, and the world will be one.......

--lol

You think I'm joking?

 

[jon_berzerk]

i envision a progressive utopia where just saying something politically incorrect will land you on a "list" where people will refuse to hire you.

Imagine. Maybe someday you will join them, and the world will be one.......

--lol

You think I'm joking?

actually i dont

 

[Bfgrn]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

I know you right wingers blame liberals and progressives for everything, including your constipation.

BUT...

The NRA wants an ‘active’ mental illness database.
December 21, 2012

In his Friday morning news conference, National Rifle Association chief executive Wayne LaPierre floated the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence.

“How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?” he asked.

Washington Post

 

[nodoginnafight]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed &#8212; guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed &#8212; guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.

- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania

A little different than you original presentation. But I support the proposal. It pronounces no one "guilty without due process" as you suggest. Having a mental illness doesn't make you guilty - it just could mean you don't need to own a gun.

This common NRA tactic - to kneecap the enforcement arm of common sense regulation (see Tiahrt amendment http://protectpolice.org/facts) - and then cry "we don't need NEW regulation, just enforce the regulations we already have in place" is so short-sighted and a big part of the problem. It prompts so many people to THINK we need new regulations - because the effectiveness of current regulations is destroyed by removing the ability to enforce.

Just about everyone can agree that those suffering from many types of severe mental illness should not be allowed to purchase guns. So to get around that, the NRA just attacks the ability to enforce that common-sense rule. And they attack it with the flawed "slippery-slope" argument of what "could" happen.

Any law can be made onerous by corrupt enforcement. It is no reason to pass no laws. It is a reason to monitor enforcement.

With all due respect, I would encourage folks to support the proposal. And I applaud the NRA chief coming out in support of mental health reporting.

 

[martybegan]

tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal

The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.

There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.

Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed — guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.

Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.

The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState

Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."

I know you right wingers blame liberals and progressives for everything, including your constipation.

BUT...

The NRA wants an ‘active’ mental illness database.
December 21, 2012

In his Friday morning news conference, National Rifle Association chief executive Wayne LaPierre floated the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence.

“How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?” he asked.

Washington Post

Yes, but only for those adjudicated as mentally ill, thus preserving due process. Having your doctor be able to inform some government executive agency that could then by fiat remove your 2nd amendment rights is not due process.