Newt Gingrich Changes Views on Gay-Marriage, Says 'Deal with Reality'

[NYcarbineer]

God is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday. His word never changes. Newt is on his own.

Then I guess when the Mormons decided that polygamy was no longer acceptable,

they were effectively abandoning God.

Why blame God for what any Religious ideology does or doesn't do? I said GOD is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.. NOT people.

I didn't blame God. I suggested that the Mormons abandoning polygamy were abandoning God,

since it was God, according to the Mormons, who mandated polygamy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why blame God for what any Religious ideology does or doesn't do? I said GOD is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.. NOT people.

And yet god still has no place in a discussion about legal, civil marriage. Religious marriage and legal marriage are two completely different things.

God created man and woman. God ordained marriage between a man and a woman. As much as you and others want to pretend that somehow God condones homosexuality, it's not true. You can do whatever you want..I don't care but don't tell me I HAVE to accept a sinful lifestyle because you engage in it. If there were nothing but homosexuals left on the planet, the world would die out. There is no gay gene.. blah, blah, blah.. same old tired argument, all meant to cower anyone who won't condone your sin filled lifestyle choice. Too bad. Get over it.

God condones celibacy among priests. If there were nothing but priests on the planet, the human race would die out.

 

[YoungRepublican]

God created man and woman. God ordained marriage between a man and a woman.

No "god" didn't. Marriage has existed long before your god ever left the catacombs in which he was created.

You are conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other. What gays and lesbians are fighting for is equal access to a legal contract, not your religious doctrine. We already have equal access to that. We can find churches willing to marry us anytime we want. It is the legal contract issued by the government that we are fighting for, not your sky fairy's version of marriage.


You don't know that. No man can speak for god. I'll wait to see what he/she has to say on the matter from the horses mouth, thanks. I can wait.



No one has ever said you have to accept anything. You do have to tolerate it.



No it wouldn't. We can still procreate you know. I've done it five times myself. Not that it matters since that is probably one of the stupidest "arguments" I've heard.



There has been no "gay gene" found to date, however the overwhelming majority of scientists do believe that there is a genetic predisposition for sexual orientation. Scientists overwhelmingly reject the "choice" meme that homophobes like to put out.

blah, blah, blah.. same old tired argument, all meant to cower anyone who won't condone your sin filled lifestyle choice. Too bad. Get over it.

Again, I really don't give two shits if you "condone" me or not (and it is NOT a choice, I might add...the only choice is in acting upon my natural inclinations). You don't have to like us, accept us or condone us...just treat us equally under the law.

I'll never condone homosexual marriage nor do I have to. It goes against everything I believe.I don't give a crap what you do or don't do.. FLY AWAY.. I could care less but don't expect me or anyone who has an issue with your chosen behavior to pretend that it's ok and condone it.. NOT going to happen.. any more than you're going to accept what I believe.

What’s the deal with people against gay marriage? Why so much hate? it doesn’t affect me or you, it helps population control and they are just as nice and law abiding as any other hetero couple. I guess I never understood the big to-do against it, but hey different generation I guess.. Might as well drop it though, every gen. becomes more tolerant and less discriminatory as the previous and we just end up with a bunch of people on the wrong side of history that give’s the next gen. a lesson in tolerance.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Then I guess when the Mormons decided that polygamy was no longer acceptable,

they were effectively abandoning God.

Why blame God for what any Religious ideology does or doesn't do? I said GOD is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.. NOT people.

and yet you have the temerity to pretend you speak for G-d.

you can't even honor a bet... perhaps your own 'morals' need work before you try to impose them on others.

Why do some of you HATE FILLED leftists continue to lie about this so called bet'??! I had that signature up on my profile for 31 days.. The bet was for 30 days.. NOTHING in the bet included Bodecea's purple color font, which is a JOKE anyhow.. SO LIE SOME MORE.. You and your ilk can't ever tell the truth, can you?? The entire conversation and bet are listed in the Flame Zone. Both Si and Dreamy were witness to day one of my signature and when it ended. Nov 11th - Dec 12th. NOW LIE AGAIN.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

No "god" didn't. Marriage has existed long before your god ever left the catacombs in which he was created.

You are conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other. What gays and lesbians are fighting for is equal access to a legal contract, not your religious doctrine. We already have equal access to that. We can find churches willing to marry us anytime we want. It is the legal contract issued by the government that we are fighting for, not your sky fairy's version of marriage.



You don't know that. No man can speak for god. I'll wait to see what he/she has to say on the matter from the horses mouth, thanks. I can wait.



No one has ever said you have to accept anything. You do have to tolerate it.



No it wouldn't. We can still procreate you know. I've done it five times myself. Not that it matters since that is probably one of the stupidest "arguments" I've heard.



There has been no "gay gene" found to date, however the overwhelming majority of scientists do believe that there is a genetic predisposition for sexual orientation. Scientists overwhelmingly reject the "choice" meme that homophobes like to put out.



Again, I really don't give two shits if you "condone" me or not (and it is NOT a choice, I might add...the only choice is in acting upon my natural inclinations). You don't have to like us, accept us or condone us...just treat us equally under the law.

I'll never condone homosexual marriage nor do I have to. It goes against everything I believe.I don't give a crap what you do or don't do.. FLY AWAY.. I could care less but don't expect me or anyone who has an issue with your chosen behavior to pretend that it's ok and condone it.. NOT going to happen.. any more than you're going to accept what I believe.

Goody goody gumdrops for you. Again for the cheap seats...don't care. I don't give a rats ass if you condone us or not. I'm not asking to be liked, condoned or accepted, but for my family to be treated equally under the law.

You will hold fast to your beliefs and "truths"...until someone in your close family comes to you and tells you they are gay. Then I hope you will have, at least, some time for soul searching. Would you be able to look your gay child in the eyes and say "I love you, but don't think you deserve equal rights"? One wonders...

I have an Aunt who is gay.. Is that suppose to make me forget about the principles and morals that I grew up with? Am I suppose to now believe God is wrong and you and she are right?! I don't care what you do as I told you.. but your obsession with FORCING people to condone your lifestyle choice is rabid.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

No "god" didn't. Marriage has existed long before your god ever left the catacombs in which he was created.

You are conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other. What gays and lesbians are fighting for is equal access to a legal contract, not your religious doctrine. We already have equal access to that. We can find churches willing to marry us anytime we want. It is the legal contract issued by the government that we are fighting for, not your sky fairy's version of marriage.


You don't know that. No man can speak for god. I'll wait to see what he/she has to say on the matter from the horses mouth, thanks. I can wait.



No one has ever said you have to accept anything. You do have to tolerate it.



No it wouldn't. We can still procreate you know. I've done it five times myself. Not that it matters since that is probably one of the stupidest "arguments" I've heard.



There has been no "gay gene" found to date, however the overwhelming majority of scientists do believe that there is a genetic predisposition for sexual orientation. Scientists overwhelmingly reject the "choice" meme that homophobes like to put out.



Again, I really don't give two shits if you "condone" me or not (and it is NOT a choice, I might add...the only choice is in acting upon my natural inclinations). You don't have to like us, accept us or condone us...just treat us equally under the law.

I'll never condone homosexual marriage nor do I have to. It goes against everything I believe.I don't give a crap what you do or don't do.. FLY AWAY.. I could care less but don't expect me or anyone who has an issue with your chosen behavior to pretend that it's ok and condone it.. NOT going to happen.. any more than you're going to accept what I believe.

What’s the deal with people against gay marriage? Why so much hate? it doesn’t affect me or you, it helps population control and they are just as nice and law abiding as any other hetero couple. I guess I never understood the big to-do against it, but hey different generation I guess.. Might as well drop it though, every gen. becomes more tolerant and less discriminatory as the previous and we just end up with a bunch of people on the wrong side of history that give’s the next gen. a lesson in tolerance.

Since when in America are Christians not allowed to hold on to their principles and morals? Since you said so? Since liberals decided their human actions should be forcibly pushed on to society?? No one has to give up their morals to appease you or anyone else for that matter.. GO SCREW your dog, your next door neighbor.. blow up dolls.. NO one cares but don't come telling Americans they HAVE to be forced to accept another person's behavior when it goes against their own principles.

 

[YoungRepublican]

I'll never condone homosexual marriage nor do I have to. It goes against everything I believe.I don't give a crap what you do or don't do.. FLY AWAY.. I could care less but don't expect me or anyone who has an issue with your chosen behavior to pretend that it's ok and condone it.. NOT going to happen.. any more than you're going to accept what I believe.

What’s the deal with people against gay marriage? Why so much hate? it doesn’t affect me or you, it helps population control and they are just as nice and law abiding as any other hetero couple. I guess I never understood the big to-do against it, but hey different generation I guess.. Might as well drop it though, every gen. becomes more tolerant and less discriminatory as the previous and we just end up with a bunch of people on the wrong side of history that give’s the next gen. a lesson in tolerance.

Since when in America are Christians not allowed to hold on to their principles and morals? Since you said so? Since liberals decided their human actions should be forcibly pushed on to society?? No one has to give up their morals to appease you or anyone else for that matter.. GO SCREW your dog, your next door neighbor.. blow up dolls.. NO one cares but don't come telling Americans they HAVE to be forced to accept another person's behavior when it goes against their own principles.

Whoa holster the guns there. I didnt say you need to give up any of your morals. All I said was that we cant make any laws against it and the younger generation has become accepting of the lifestyle. All of which is true. You can keep whatever morals/values etc. that you want, no ones stopping you. All I am saying is that eventually the anti gay crowd will be viewed as on the wrong side of history much like the anti civil rights crowd.. nothing inflamatory, just fact based opinions.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

What’s the deal with people against gay marriage? Why so much hate? it doesn’t affect me or you, it helps population control and they are just as nice and law abiding as any other hetero couple. I guess I never understood the big to-do against it, but hey different generation I guess.. Might as well drop it though, every gen. becomes more tolerant and less discriminatory as the previous and we just end up with a bunch of people on the wrong side of history that give’s the next gen. a lesson in tolerance.

Since when in America are Christians not allowed to hold on to their principles and morals? Since you said so? Since liberals decided their human actions should be forcibly pushed on to society?? No one has to give up their morals to appease you or anyone else for that matter.. GO SCREW your dog, your next door neighbor.. blow up dolls.. NO one cares but don't come telling Americans they HAVE to be forced to accept another person's behavior when it goes against their own principles.

Whoa holster the guns there. I didnt say you need to give up any of your morals. All I said was that we cant make any laws against it and the younger generation has become accepting of the lifestyle. All of which is true. You can keep whatever morals/values etc. that you want, no ones stopping you. All I am saying is that eventually the anti gay crowd will be viewed as on the wrong side of history much like the anti civil rights crowd.. nothing inflamatory, just fact based opinions.

Sorry.. I totally misread you..I apologize.

 

[YoungRepublican]

Since when in America are Christians not allowed to hold on to their principles and morals? Since you said so? Since liberals decided their human actions should be forcibly pushed on to society?? No one has to give up their morals to appease you or anyone else for that matter.. GO SCREW your dog, your next door neighbor.. blow up dolls.. NO one cares but don't come telling Americans they HAVE to be forced to accept another person's behavior when it goes against their own principles.

Whoa holster the guns there. I didnt say you need to give up any of your morals. All I said was that we cant make any laws against it and the younger generation has become accepting of the lifestyle. All of which is true. You can keep whatever morals/values etc. that you want, no ones stopping you. All I am saying is that eventually the anti gay crowd will be viewed as on the wrong side of history much like the anti civil rights crowd.. nothing inflamatory, just fact based opinions.

Sorry.. I totally misread you..I apologize.

No worries!

 

[Seawytch]

I'll never condone homosexual marriage nor do I have to. It goes against everything I believe.I don't give a crap what you do or don't do.. FLY AWAY.. I could care less but don't expect me or anyone who has an issue with your chosen behavior to pretend that it's ok and condone it.. NOT going to happen.. any more than you're going to accept what I believe.

Goody goody gumdrops for you. Again for the cheap seats...don't care. I don't give a rats ass if you condone us or not. I'm not asking to be liked, condoned or accepted, but for my family to be treated equally under the law.

You will hold fast to your beliefs and "truths"...until someone in your close family comes to you and tells you they are gay. Then I hope you will have, at least, some time for soul searching. Would you be able to look your gay child in the eyes and say "I love you, but don't think you deserve equal rights"? One wonders...

I have an Aunt who is gay.. Is that suppose to make me forget about the principles and morals that I grew up with? Am I suppose to now believe God is wrong and you and she are right?! I don't care what you do as I told you.. but your obsession with FORCING people to condone your lifestyle choice is rabid.

How is giving me equal access to a legal contract forcing you to do anything? How does giving me equal access to a legal contract make you forget principals and morals? What do they have to do with a legal contract?

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Goody goody gumdrops for you. Again for the cheap seats...don't care. I don't give a rats ass if you condone us or not. I'm not asking to be liked, condoned or accepted, but for my family to be treated equally under the law.

You will hold fast to your beliefs and "truths"...until someone in your close family comes to you and tells you they are gay. Then I hope you will have, at least, some time for soul searching. Would you be able to look your gay child in the eyes and say "I love you, but don't think you deserve equal rights"? One wonders...

I have an Aunt who is gay.. Is that suppose to make me forget about the principles and morals that I grew up with? Am I suppose to now believe God is wrong and you and she are right?! I don't care what you do as I told you.. but your obsession with FORCING people to condone your lifestyle choice is rabid.

How is giving me equal access to a legal contract forcing you to do anything? How does giving me equal access to a legal contract make you forget principals and morals? What do they have to do with a legal contract?

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person? How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia) There's a marriage definition set in STONE by our Creator himself. There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it? I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

 

[Seawytch]

I have an Aunt who is gay.. Is that suppose to make me forget about the principles and morals that I grew up with? Am I suppose to now believe God is wrong and you and she are right?! I don't care what you do as I told you.. but your obsession with FORCING people to condone your lifestyle choice is rabid.

How is giving me equal access to a legal contract forcing you to do anything? How does giving me equal access to a legal contract make you forget principals and morals? What do they have to do with a legal contract?

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person? How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia) There's a marriage definition set in STONE by our Creator himself. There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it? I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

Nobody is circumventing any laws, but changing them. That's what we do here. We did it when states passed laws saying that blacks couldn't marry whites. Laws change as society changes.

Are there a lot of people fighting to marry more than one person? Is there a big "polygamous marriage" push from the "Big Love" crowd? Even if there was such a movement in the United States, they would have to go through the same "system" we are, in which you must be able to demonstrate a societal harm in allowing them to marry. Can you? Can you demonstrate a societal harm in allowing gays to marry each other?

Do you know what consent is? Animals, dead people, inanimate objects and children cannot give legal consent, making your argument mostly ridiculous.

"Slippery slope" doesn't hold up in court.

When you get married to your cousin in Alabama, you are still married in California. I'm not. That's not equality, Amigo.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person?

In places where Same-sex Civil Marriage is legal, no law has been circumvented. Since Same-sex Civil Marriage is legal, they are - well - legal.

How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia)

When animals are allowed to sign legal contracts, let us know.

There's a marriage definition set in STONE by our Creator himself.

Actually speaking of the Bible there were two types of marriages: monogamous and polygamous.

There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it?

And in those states different-sex couples are still allowed to Civilly Marry.

I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

So you have an issue when people CHOOSE a religion and then demand religious rights?

Or is it just homosexuals demanding a right embodied in the 14th Amendment to equal treatment under the law that you have problems with?


**********************************

Civil Marriage laws don't "force" anyone to do anything. As such I support equal treatment for homosexuals. The real culprit isn't Civil Marriage laws it's Public Accommodation laws that force private business entities to not discriminate based on race, national origin, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, age, etc...

Personally I say allow Same-sex Civil Marriage to be equally accessible to Different-sex Civil Marriages and repeal Public Accommodation laws so that private entities retrain the right to refuse service as they see fit. Would it be messy? Probably. But that is the cost of a truly smaller less intrusive government.



>>>>

 

[Katzndogz]

Legal contracts that purport to control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract are invalid. That's where the legal contract argument falls apart.

 

[Seawytch]

Legal contracts that purport to control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract are invalid. That's where the legal contract argument falls apart.

Oh really? So your legal, civil marriage somehow controls my actions? In what regards, Charlie? How does a legal marriage "control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract"?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Legal contracts that purport to control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract are invalid. That's where the legal contract argument falls apart.

Oh really? So your legal, civil marriage somehow controls my actions? In what regards, Charlie? How does a legal marriage "control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract"?

The legal contract of Civil Marriage doesn't attempt to control any actions beyond the two involved.

Control of the actions of others is a function of Public Accommodation laws, not Civil Marriage law. And just for the record, Public Accommodation laws control the actions of others even in States without Same-sex Civil Marriage.


>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

Legal contracts that purport to control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract are invalid. That's where the legal contract argument falls apart.

Oh really? So your legal, civil marriage somehow controls my actions? In what regards, Charlie? How does a legal marriage "control the actions of parties beyond the signatories of the contract"?

The legal contract of Civil Marriage doesn't attempt to control any actions beyond the two involved.

Control of the actions of others is a function of Public Accommodation laws, not Civil Marriage law. And just for the record, Public Accommodation laws control the actions of others even in States without Same-sex Civil Marriage.


>>>>

Aaaahhhh, so that is what he was so poorly alluding to. Two different kinds of fruit...just like legal marriage and religious marriage are two completely different things. I don't care about the religious one, you're free to keep that as your doctrine dictates. Plenty of religious institutions out there willing to let us "jump the broom".

 

[JoeB131]

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person? How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia) There's a marriage definition set in STONE by our Creator himself. There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it? I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

I see no problem with making Polygamy legal, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.

Animals can't consent or agree to legally binding agreements, so this is a straw man argument.

What if there isn't a sky pixie? By your logic, we should still take women who cheat on their husbands out and stone them. Or if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, take her out and stone her as well.

Yes, several states allow for gay marriage... but until DOMA is struck down, if you live in a state that doesn't recognize those unions, they don't help you much.

As for your morals and convictions, why don't you support what Jesus said about loving your neighbor and taking care of those less fortunate than you?

It seems to me that you want to use your bible not as a guidepost on how to be a better person, but to rationalize your own biases.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I have an Aunt who is gay.. Is that suppose to make me forget about the principles and morals that I grew up with? Am I suppose to now believe God is wrong and you and she are right?! I don't care what you do as I told you.. but your obsession with FORCING people to condone your lifestyle choice is rabid.

How is giving me equal access to a legal contract forcing you to do anything? How does giving me equal access to a legal contract make you forget principals and morals? What do they have to do with a legal contract?

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person? How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia) There's a marriage definition set in STONE by our Creator himself. There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it? I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

Nothing’s being ‘circumvented.’

Indeed, same-sex couples are entitled access to marriage in accordance with equal protection jurisprudence, where the state cannot manifest a compelling interest to deny same-sex couples access to its marriage law, and attempting to do so is motivated solely by animus toward same-sex couples.

As to plural marriage and animals and the like, that’s nonsense. Laws prohibiting plural marriage are perfectly legal because they’re applied to everyone equally, unlike laws prohibiting same-sex couples access to marriage, where a particular class of persons is singled out for exclusion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Should we circumvent the law for those who want to marry more than one person?

In places where Same-sex Civil Marriage is legal, no law has been circumvented. Since Same-sex Civil Marriage is legal, they are - well - legal.

How about people who want to marry animals? (Zoophilia)

When animals are allowed to sign legal contracts, let us know.



Actually speaking of the Bible there were two types of marriages: monogamous and polygamous.

There are several states that allow for homosexual marriage.. Nothing is stopping you from getting married in one of those states, now is it?

And in those states different-sex couples are still allowed to Civilly Marry.

I'm not going to change my morals and convictions to appease you or anyone else who CHOOSE a lifestyle, then demand rights..

So you have an issue when people CHOOSE a religion and then demand religious rights?

Or is it just homosexuals demanding a right embodied in the 14th Amendment to equal treatment under the law that you have problems with?


**********************************

Civil Marriage laws don't "force" anyone to do anything. As such I support equal treatment for homosexuals. The real culprit isn't Civil Marriage laws it's Public Accommodation laws that force private business entities to not discriminate based on race, national origin, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, age, etc...

Personally I say allow Same-sex Civil Marriage to be equally accessible to Different-sex Civil Marriages and repeal Public Accommodation laws so that private entities retrain the right to refuse service as they see fit. Would it be messy? Probably. But that is the cost of a truly smaller less intrusive government.



>>>>

Public accommodations policy is predicated on Commerce Clause jurisprudence, where Congress and the states are authorized to regulate commerce and ensure there are no obstacles to access of a given market; that it would be ‘messy’ is indeed what the states are allowed to prevent, and public accommodations laws have long ago passed Constitutional muster:

How obstructions in commerce [p262] may be removed -- what means are to be employed -- is within the sound and exclusive discretion of the Congress. It is subject only to one caveat -- that the means chosen by it must be reasonably adapted to the end permitted by the Constitution. We cannot say that its choice here was not so adapted. The Constitution requires no more.

Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States

Public accommodations laws, therefore, do not manifest an ‘intrusive government,’ rather, they ensure a free flow of commerce by preventing obstructions, and merchants refusing the patronage of potential customers based solely on the customers’ race, religion, or sexual orientation would clearly create an obstacle harmful to efficient commercial transactions.