Zone1 New poll shows Americans' confidence and belief in the Bible is at all-time low

[Meriweather]

I have a lot of beliefs. But all my beliefs are based on firm evidence and logic.

Admirable. But how does that help you understand a story written in a different language, addressing a different culture?

 

[Meriweather]

Or it's just a bunch of fairy stories written centuries later.

No, Elisha's story is part of the history of the Israelites--their history with nearby nations and their relationship with God.

 

[Meriweather]

Either the Bible is the unerring word of God, or it isn't. You can't have it both ways.

If you mean by "unerring" that the modern English is unerring, we do not agree.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Joe, you seem to believe that everyone takes the Bible literally or with a child's understanding. It makes it difficult to communicate with you. Let's try a more in depth focus of the Bible, shall we?

What a very convenient strategy you have...

Insist upon the truth of things in the Bible, until they seem embarrassing. Then clutch your pearls and express surprise another person would think you would believe the goofy stuff in the Bible.

 

[JoeB131]

Admirable. But how does that help you understand a story written in a different language, addressing a different culture?

Understanding they were backwards, Bronze Age savages...

No, Elisha's story is part of the history of the Israelites--their history with nearby nations and their relationship with God.

Written hundreds of years after the fact, if there were indeed any facts to be had. After the Judeans had been exposed to the far more civilized Persians and a lot of Zoroastrian influences seeped into their faith. Now, there might be a kernel of truth to the bear story. Bear Attacks are kind of unusual, even today... so a bear rampage might have been memorable.

Of course, we don't have the story of the other side, that of the Baal worshippers.

If you mean by "unerring" that the modern English is unerring, we do not agree.

Naw, you do what most Christians do... pick out the parts you like, throw out the icky parts.

 

[Meriweather]

Of course, we don't have the story of the other side, that of the Baal worshippers.

When the story read is the modern English version seen through the lens of modern culture, we have no understanding of the story from either the perspective of the Israelites or those who worship Baal.

 

[JoeB131]

When the story read is the modern English version seen through the lens of modern culture, we have no understanding of the story from either the perspective of the Israelites or those who worship Baal.

The problem is, there's no real culture where this story becomes acceptable. So they made fun of his bald head. People make fun of my baldness all the time. I don't go around murdering them... because that would be kind of messed up.

"Well, maybe they were young men instead of children, so that makes it okay, somehow. And, oh, yeah, there was something about water in there, so maybe they were water sellers."

 

[Meriweather]

The problem is, there's no real culture where this story becomes acceptable. So they made fun of his bald head.

Were they making fun of his bald head, or is that simply what they called him. Remember, he was wearing Elijah's mantle but Elijah was gone up to heaven. They were rejecting his authority, telling him to die. Has anyone ever cursed anyone with death because they were bald? Unlikely.

Next, what was used to purify the water so that death and miscarriage no longer resulted from drinking it? Salt. Salt was used in sacrifices--and it also symbolized friendship. Was it this renewed friendship the people of Bethel who worshiped Baal were challenging.

Then, there is the issue of Elisha traveling to the city, and they boys coming out of the city. We are told Elisha turned and faced the other side.

Does this remind you of anything?

 

[Weatherman2020]

You always roll up into a little ball and suck your thumb, the moment anyone meets your point with counterpoint. Which makes one wonder why you post on message boards, given that any actual discussion turns you into a little blob of crybaby.

Hey, you’re the one bitching that there’s too much charity going on around the world.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hey, you’re the one bitching that there’s too much charity going on around the world.

Lies make Baby Jesus cry. He hears you.

 

[JoeB131]

Were they making fun of his bald head, or is that simply what they called him. Remember, he was wearing Elijah's mantle but Elijah was gone up to heaven. They were rejecting his authority, telling him to die. Has anyone ever cursed anyone with death because they were bald? Unlikely.

Yeah, that's another thing. People in the bible live every day with miracles, and still doubt the sky pixies. Kind of like the Apostles with Jesus who seem to forget the miracle Jesus did last week and doubt him again and again.

So if Elijah really went to heaven, you think these boys would take things more seriously with Elisha.

Next, what was used to purify the water so that death and miscarriage no longer resulted from drinking it? Salt. Salt was used in sacrifices--and it also symbolized friendship. Was it this renewed friendship the people of Bethel who worshiped Baal were challenging.

Boy, you are reading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't there.

Then, there is the issue of Elisha traveling to the city, and they boys coming out of the city. We are told Elisha turned and faced the other side.

Does this remind you of anything?

not really... I'm sure you've read something into it like a music fan who plays his record in reverse trying to find the secret message.

 

[Meriweather]

Boy, you are reading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't there.

I am reading what is there. Salt in modern culture means nothing, therefore you read nothing.

 

[JoeB131]

I am reading what is there. Salt in modern culture means nothing, therefore you read nothing.

The salt had nothing to do with the bald guy calling down bears to maul children.

 

[Meriweather]

not really... I'm sure you've read something into it like a music fan who plays his record in reverse trying to find the secret message.

Looking to the other side has meaning in Biblical culture.

 

[JoeB131]

Looking to the other side has meaning in Biblical culture.

I'm sure it does.

He still called on Bears to maul children because they made fun of his bald head. And God was totally on board with it.

 

[Meriweather]

The salt had nothing to do with the bald guy calling down bears to maul children.

The salt purified the water. What does this signify? Boys emerge from Bethel cursing a Hebrew prophet with death. The prophet turns to look to the other side and also calls down a curse. Two she-bears emerge. Why two? Why bears? Why are 42 killed? Why not twenty-two or sixty-seven? Or, 24,000? What would the significance be for 24,000?

 

[Meriweather]

He still called on Bears to maul children because they made fun of his bald head. And God was totally on board with it.

And when you read it is raining cats and dogs, you know absolutely that cats and dogs are dropping from the sky. No doubt in your mind at all. When a friend writes she is blue, you know for a fact her skin has turned blue. You will tell anyone trying to explain these two sentences they are absolutely, positively wrong. It says CATS and DOGS! It says BLUE. No other meaning.

 

[JoeB131]

The salt purified the water. What does this signify? Boys emerge from Bethel cursing a Hebrew prophet with death. The prophet turns to look to the other side and also calls down a curse. Two she-bears emerge. Why two? Why bears? Why are 42 killed? Why not twenty-two or sixty-seven? Or, 24,000? What would the significance be for 24,000?

Calling him bald was cursing him with death? Gee, that's funny. People make fun of my bald head all the time. I just kind of laugh it off.

And when you read it is raining cats and dogs, you know absolutely that cats and dogs are dropping from the sky. No doubt in your mind at all. When a friend writes she is blue, you know for a fact her skin has turned blue. You will tell anyone trying to explain these two sentences they are absolutely, positively wrong. It says CATS and DOGS! It says BLUE. No other meaning.

Except there's no indication it is anything other than what it says. Children made fun of his bald head and he sent bears after them. Because he had THE POWER OF GOD!!!!

This is some serious Disney stuff here... You know, where Pocahontas was a full grown woman who was in love with John Smith. (Not an 11 year old girl). And the Hunchback of Notre Dame had a happy ending.

 

[surada]

Who said these were walled cities? At that point, only very large cities were walled. You make assumption on top of assumption here.

For much of it's history Jerusalem was walled in with numerous gates that were closed at dusk because it was bandit territory. It wasn't big.. only about 10 acres and 1000 people.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[Weatherman2020]

Right... except the bible refers to them as "Little Youth", what did Elisha do, ruin their lemonade stands?



Now you're arguing for scientific accuracy in your fairy stories?

It sounds to me like kids back then do what kids do now... they go out and explore. or at least they did when I was little. Today's little snowflakes with their helicopter moms planning every activity of their day, not so much.

I have a summer home in Northern Wisconsin, and yes, I've seen bears operate in groups. My dad used to put us all in the back of the station wagon and let us watch the bears at the dump. Sometimes, he'd mess with us by backing the station wagon towards the bears as we all screamed in horror... because my Dad was like that.

Usually the one thing that will encourage aggression in Ursus Americanus is getting between her and her cubs. However, we are talking about Ursus Arctus Syrianus the Syrian Brown bear. But probably the same thing. If you have a large concentration of people, you have a large concentration of garbage. So that probably attracted bears to this town, and they might have had a series of the bears attacking children because anything larger they would probably run away from.

So, the logical explanation... a couple of bears started crossing into an inhabited area because maybe their natural prey was running a bit thin, attracted by garbage and in a course of so many months, they attacked a very specific 42 children.

Illogical explanation- Angry Prophet curses kids in a town, and when there are bear attacks, it must have been because you made fun of the prophet.

Seven Kids, One as Young as 10, Hunt, Kill Elderly Philly Man, Locals Can’t Understand.