New National Guard Record Forgeries????

[JIHADTHIS]

I was going to add this to the current Bush/Guard records thread, but the implications of this are pretty explosive if it is true..........

Embedded links up the wazoo!

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

Today's big Boston Globe story on President Bush's Air National Guard service is based on memos to file from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian: "Bid cited to boost Bush in Guard."

The Globe story is itself based on last night's 60 Minutes report: "New questions on Bush Guard duty." The online version of the 60 Minutes story has links to the memos. Killian died in 1984; CBS states that it "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic." Readers Tom Mortensen and Liz Mac Dougald direct us to a FreeRepublic thread post no. 47 to this effect:

Every single one of the memos to file regarding Bush's failure to attend a physical and meet other requirements is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing (especially in the military), and typewriters used mono-spaced fonts.

The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction high-end word processing systems from Xerox and Wang, and later of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's.

Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang and other systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used mono-spaced fonts. I doubt the TANG had typesetting or high-end 1st generation word processing systems.

I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively.

UPDATE: Thanks to all the readers who have written regarding this post. Several have pointed out that the Executive line of IBM typewriters did have proportionally spaced fonts, although no reader has found the font used in the memos to be a familiar one or thought that the an IBM Executive was likely to have been used by the National Guard in the early 1970's. Reader Monty Walls has also cited the IBM Selectric Composer. However, reader Eric Courtney adds this wrinkle:

The "Memo To File" of August 18, 1973 also used specialized typesetting characters not used on typewriters. These include the superscript "th" in 187th, and consistent ’ (right single quote) used instead of a typewriter's generic ' (apostrophe). These are the sorts of things that typesetters did manually until the advent of smart correction in things like Microsoft Word.


Who said dirty pool??

 

[Avatar4321]

So what does this mean? Simplyify it

 

[JIHADTHIS]

So what does this mean? Simplyify it

Uhhhh: That someone went through a lot of trouble to make a bunch of false records that "smear" Bush, that 60 minutes ran an anti-Bush story last night based off of obvious forgeries, that the Boston Globe is running a story based off the 60 minutes piece........

Who's the "someone" who created the forgeries, who's idea was it, and who sanctioned the story?

When this is exposed, do you not think it will blow up in Flipper's face? They lose huge credibility if it is proven that they are now forging documents to smear Bush..........

Capice?

 

[DKSuddeth]

so this 'forensic' analysis of the typeset and font spacing has been proven already to be a forgery? other than in a blog?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

so this 'forensic' analysis of the typeset and font spacing has been proven already to be a forgery? other than in a blog?

I led off with:
I was going to add this to the current Bush/Guard records thread, but the implications of this are pretty explosive if it is true..........

IMHO it is, if that counts

 

[CSM]

I would love to see the original document. It's all pretty suspicious if you ask me. Why would a retired commander keep records on ONE individual in his personal records for over 30 years? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[freeandfun1]

"What saddens me most is that Democrats, above all those who shared the agonies of that generation, should now be refighting the many conflicts of Vietnam in order to win the current political conflict of a Presidential primary."
--John Kerry
Thursday, February 27, 1992;
(Legislative day of Thursday, January 30, 1992)
138 Cong Rec S 2479

 

[DKSuddeth]

I led off with:
I was going to add this to the current Bush/Guard records thread, but the implications of this are pretty explosive if it is true..........

IMHO it is, if that counts

your opinion counts, in so far as I value your opinion. But if I read the 'blog' correctly, somebody else has stated their opinions on a technical matter but it may be innaccurate, so these memos may actually be factual and legitimate?

 

[DKSuddeth]

I would love to see the original document. It's all pretty suspicious if you ask me. Why would a retired commander keep records on ONE individual in his personal records for over 30 years? It just doesn't make sense.

thats an intriguing thought, I'd have to wonder if this colonel kept records on any others and if NOT, then what was special about GW that prompted him to keep these?

 

[CSM]

Links on this page to the documents:

http://cbs2chicago.com/rooney/sixtyminutes_story_252205036.html

If you look at the signatures, especially the 4 May memo and the 1 Aug memo, they look different to me. Also, the initial premise of this thread may prove correct as ALL the documents use "th" except in one place ("111th" at the top of the memo and then the superscript version within the document itself, i.e.) which makes me VERY skeptical.

The fact the the guy who found these documents is a die hard Democrat working for Kerry doesn't ease my mind either.

 

[freeandfun1]

Thanks for the link. The superscript "th" is the give away that these ARE forgeries. Also, the I am not a handwriting expert, but it is OBVIOUS those signature are NOT the same.

I hope this gets exposed and I hope this becomes the "Watergate" of the democratic party.

Slam em and slam em hard.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Funny how Kerry hired all of the ex-Clintonites and promised to "take the gloves off" this past weekend. Then you have 60 minutes and the Globe run this story as fact, when the documents they are basing this off of are possibly dubious. How did they get these documents that just happened to be in the archives of a man who's been dead for quite awhile?
Conveniently, this takes the heat off of Kerry for a few days. All of this comes after the swift boat story and a Navy inquiry into Kerry filling out his own reports. Then you got McAuliffe blabbing on that Bush lied, thus putting the White House back on the defensive.

I am not a rabid Bush supporter by any means, but you gotta wonder

 

[CSM]

Thanks for the link. The superscript "th" is the give away that these ARE forgeries. Also, the I am not a handwriting expert, but it is OBVIOUS those signature are NOT the same.

I hope this gets exposed and I hope this becomes the "Watergate" of the democratic party.

Slam em and slam em hard.

Another thing that makes me wonder is that orders to take a medical exam are usually just that ... written orders, particularly if they are to be conducted in a duty status.

The signatures are suspicious as well, but I have no basis for comparison except the documents shown in the links.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Funny how Kerry hired all of the ex-Clintonites and promised to "take the gloves off" this past weekend. Then you have 60 minutes and the Globe run this story as fact, when the documents they are basing this off of are possibly dubious. How did they get these documents that just happened to be in the archives of a man who's been dead for quite awhile?
Conveniently, this takes the heat off of Kerry for a few days. All of this comes after the swift boat story and a Navy inquiry into Kerry filling out his own reports. Then you got McAuliffe blabbing on that Bush lied, thus putting the White House back on the defensive.

I am not a rabid Bush supporter by any means, but you gotta wonder

Good point.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. You have one guy that works with the Kerry campaign coming forward after all this time and making claims, topped off by memos that appear from nowhere from a guy that's been dead for 20 years.

Sniff...sniff... What's that smell?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Kinda OT, but kinda NOT:

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did

More:
What did Bush really do in the Guard?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Links on this page to the documents:

http://cbs2chicago.com/rooney/sixtyminutes_story_252205036.html

If you look at the signatures, especially the 4 May memo and the 1 Aug memo, they look different to me. Also, the initial premise of this thread may prove correct as ALL the documents use "th" except in one place ("111th" at the top of the memo and then the superscript version within the document itself, i.e.) which makes me VERY skeptical.

The fact the the guy who found these documents is a die hard Democrat working for Kerry doesn't ease my mind either.

I wondered about this barnes guy when I first heard him say he pushed Bush's name up the list. I think it could be very informative to find out what favors may have been done by Bush Sr. to Sid Adger for approaching barnes to ask for a favor. :cof:

 

[CSM]

I wondered about this barnes guy when I first heard him say he pushed Bush's name up the list. I think it could be very informative to find out what favors may have been done by Bush Sr. to Sid Adger for approaching barnes to ask for a favor. :cof:

Here's one view:

Ben Barnes was born in 1938 in De Leon, Texas southwest of Fort Worth. After graduating from the University of Texas and earning a law degree from Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Barnes in 1960, at age 22, was elected to the Texas House of Representatives. He served there until 1969, the last four of these years as the youngest Speaker of the House in Texas history. From 1969 until 1973 Barnes was the state’s Lt. Governor.



President Lyndon B. Johnson compared the young political wunderkind to Thomas Jefferson and predicted that Ben Barnes would be the next Texan elected President. The leftwing Texas Monthly called Barnes the “golden boy” of Texas politics.



But “after he was involved in a bribery and stock fraud scandal in the early 1970s,” wrote leftwing Mother Jones Magazine, Barnes “never held office again. He was involved with a number of banks and thrifts that were mentioned during the S&L crisis, and forced into bankruptcy when the Texas thrift industry cratered in the late 1980s.”



By the late 1990s Barnes had become a millionaire lobbyist working for GTech, a company that operated lotteries in 37 states including Texas. The Texas lottery was losing money, in part because of a sweetheart deal in which Barnes received 3.5 cents for every ticket sold – more than $3 million per year. When the Texas lottery commission re-bid GTech’s contract, the company sued and – after buying Barnes out for $23 million – hired a new lobbyist. A fired Texas lottery director sued, claiming that he had taken the fall for GTech because Barnes had a National Guard story embarrassing to then-Governor George W. Bush.



Barnes, facing potential charges of yet more wrongdoing, told his National Guard story in a deposition in a successful effort to politically deflect his own responsibility in this matter. In multiple re-tellings since 1999, the details of Barnes’ story have changed several times. Its gist is Barnes’ claim that when he was the Democratic Lt. Governor he intervened to get Republican Houston Congressman George H.W. Bush’s son George W. into the Texas Air National Guard (alongside the sons of Governor John Connally and Senator Lloyd Bentsen, Democrats). Barnes now says he is “ashamed” of this. Trouble is, George W. Bush began the first of six years’ service in the National Guard in 1968, but Barnes did not become Lt. Governor of Texas until 1969. Barnes has acknowledged that no member of the Bush family sought his help, but claims he was approached by a Bush family friend (who died three years before Barnes began telling his self-serving story).

Came from this site:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14993

I am looking for more on Mr Barnes.

 

[DKSuddeth]

IBM began selling proportional width typewriters in 1941 -- plenty of time for Bush's 1972 guard unit

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

 

[dilloduck]

Here's one view:

Ben Barnes was born in 1938 in De Leon, Texas southwest of Fort Worth. After graduating from the University of Texas and earning a law degree from Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Barnes in 1960, at age 22, was elected to the Texas House of Representatives. He served there until 1969, the last four of these years as the youngest Speaker of the House in Texas history. From 1969 until 1973 Barnes was the state’s Lt. Governor.



President Lyndon B. Johnson compared the young political wunderkind to Thomas Jefferson and predicted that Ben Barnes would be the next Texan elected President. The leftwing Texas Monthly called Barnes the “golden boy” of Texas politics.



But “after he was involved in a bribery and stock fraud scandal in the early 1970s,” wrote leftwing Mother Jones Magazine, Barnes “never held office again. He was involved with a number of banks and thrifts that were mentioned during the S&L crisis, and forced into bankruptcy when the Texas thrift industry cratered in the late 1980s.”



By the late 1990s Barnes had become a millionaire lobbyist working for GTech, a company that operated lotteries in 37 states including Texas. The Texas lottery was losing money, in part because of a sweetheart deal in which Barnes received 3.5 cents for every ticket sold – more than $3 million per year. When the Texas lottery commission re-bid GTech’s contract, the company sued and – after buying Barnes out for $23 million – hired a new lobbyist. A fired Texas lottery director sued, claiming that he had taken the fall for GTech because Barnes had a National Guard story embarrassing to then-Governor George W. Bush.



Barnes, facing potential charges of yet more wrongdoing, told his National Guard story in a deposition in a successful effort to politically deflect his own responsibility in this matter. In multiple re-tellings since 1999, the details of Barnes’ story have changed several times. Its gist is Barnes’ claim that when he was the Democratic Lt. Governor he intervened to get Republican Houston Congressman George H.W. Bush’s son George W. into the Texas Air National Guard (alongside the sons of Governor John Connally and Senator Lloyd Bentsen, Democrats). Barnes now says he is “ashamed” of this. Trouble is, George W. Bush began the first of six years’ service in the National Guard in 1968, but Barnes did not become Lt. Governor of Texas until 1969. Barnes has acknowledged that no member of the Bush family sought his help, but claims he was approached by a Bush family friend (who died three years before Barnes began telling his self-serving story).

Came from this site:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14993

I am looking for more on Mr Barnes.

Being a Texan I recommend you try pieceofshit. com
This guy is a waste of words.

 

[freeandfun1]

IBM began selling proportional width typewriters in 1941 -- plenty of time for Bush's 1972 guard unit

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

dude, you don't read well do you? The article (blog) even stated this. The question is the SUPERSCRIPT. Superscript "th" was NOT available on typewriters in the 70's. Furthermore, if you look at the docs, some of the "th's" are in superscript and some are not. Makes one wonder.......