New "Clean Start" Policy on Creating Threads

[Damaged Eagle]

Thanks

*****SMILE*****

 

[Levant]

Free speech is impervious to having a "bad name" and that makes speech you hate all the more difficult to tolerate but the Constitution says we must. As for "baiting", it's the essence of a lively discussion and way to expose liars. Imagine telling a prosecutor he can't bait a defendant to get the truth out of him in court. And now you're going to ban "polarizing" posts? LOL! What is your target audience.....the Mormon church? There ain't nearly enough HOT BLOOD here anymore so you're charging those trying to get something going with a crime? I ain't long for these parts....already decided not to OP here anymore after today. By next week at this time I'll be gone johnson.

Just two posts up from the quoted post here, you said you want the ability to delete posts, no questions asked. You remind me of Pelosi: Ice cream for me but not for thee. Or Chris Cuomo: quarantine for thee but not me. Or Fauci: masks for thee but not for me.

 

[Levant]

Free speech is impervious to having a "bad name" and that makes speech you hate all the more difficult to tolerate but the Constitution says we must.

You're lecturing someone who didn't just discover freedoms, liberty and Civil Liberties.. Free speech gets a bad name when the MAJORITY of it personal slander, diversion, repetitious sloganeering, generalizing about groups, parties, and races.. In that sense, it has little value.. All that fancy talk was to preserve DIALOGUE, DEBATE, SCIENCE, RELIGION, not 4th grade level hissy fits and taunting...

Most groups have common behaviors and goals - published or unpublished. That's what makes them groups. A person doesn't choose the group they're born into so those generalizations definitely should be reviewed but when a person joins a group - white power groups, Antifa groups, the Democrat or Republican party, then generalizations aren't really generalizations. Even when a Democrat says all Republicans are... That's likely their opinion based on choices Republican make. Certainly the other way around is true. If we can't generalize about groups then there's no need to have a political forum.

I notice there's no gardening forum here; can we get one? But then there are those pesky organic gardeners versus better-living-through-modern-chemicals gardeners... Or square foot gardeners versus the garden of eden gardeners.. Nevermind.. A gardening forum would cause far too much trouble.

 

[flacaltenn]

More rules means more opportunities to inject Moderator censorship....based on personal biases. Yes, it's human nature.

The rules are simple.. There's maybe 6 or 10 things you can't say or do ANYWHERE on the USMB in the "Site Wide Rules" section.. The REST of the rules have to do with "topic control".. Keeping threads "on topic"... You wont find a discussion board with more freedom of expression and less arbitrary moderation..

That's why most of mod is here.. Including me.. We're here because the rules are so simple and AIMED at getting discussion -- not content control...

Take me up on it.. PM me a site for a discussion board that gives their mods LESS power than at USMB...

 

[flacaltenn]

Even when a Democrat says all Republicans are... That's likely their opinion based on choices Republican make.

Certainly you're not asserting that either party is solid on principles or direction are you? Even THOSE groups can't be generalized anymore.. In fact one party is FRACTURING over a massive leftward lurch and the other GOT BOUGHT by a benevolent Troll..

To generalize all of politics into just TWO CAMPS is meaningless. MORE voters now SHUN both parties than are ardent party supporters anyways.. Stating what either party STANDS FOR without a bunch of flowery platitudes is NOW impossible...

You think "all Repubs are racists" "all Dems are Commies" is anything BUT trivial and juvenile bait tossing? Are there no "Pro Life" Dems? Minority Repubs? Folks that realize neither party is getting the job done are more correct than the wingnuts...

 

[flacaltenn]

Transparency on Warnings.

In addition, to add to visibility of who and what is being warned, Moderation will be leaving visible WARNED posts and adding a flag like -- Mod Note: This is a WARNED post.. Do not reply to it.

Of course, ACTUAL transparency would involve the mod who warned the post signing their name to the warning. Otherwise, there is obviously no transparency.

Will the mods be signing their names to these warnings?

There's not a warning generated that doesn't have a moderator name on it if a PM is sent. Occasionally we'll hit the warn button before we check the box for PM and customize the warning.. USUALLY -- a follow-up PM comes right along behind that..

If anyone gets a mysterious warning with no mod included -- contact Mod Staff immediately and ANY mod can trace that with the thread link and tell you who sent it.. Would take 1.5 minutes..

Have you ASKED??? How many times has this happened to you?

How many times?

Almost all from the last 6-12 months or more, I would say. I can't think of too many that WEREN'T anonymous.

We just went over this in private.. I know for a fact your six or seven warnings going back to last fall were completely identified.. Want me to post them here???

I receive them as alerts and not P.Ms.

You DID acknowledge the originating Mod in a P.M., but the deletions all came via unidentified alerts.

Then they are alerts, not warnings. You get them for deletions, or moving, merging, closing threads that belong to you...

I just warned FF Sock and did not check the box for a PM convo... The warning on the clown didn't even POST !!! No record of it in the clown's profile.. So it appears IMPOSSIBLE to get "an anonymous warning"...

Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've received lots of notifications with no identifying information.

I have figured it out.. You didn't comprehend what I said.. Alerts for post/thread deletions, moves, merges dont' have originators.. They can't because that's the S/ware we're stuck with.. But warnings DO ALWAYS have a mod originator on them,..

 

[flacaltenn]

I notice there's no gardening forum here; can we get one? But then there are those pesky organic gardeners versus better-living-through-modern-chemicals gardeners... Or square foot gardeners versus the garden of eden gardeners.. Nevermind.. A gardening forum would cause far too much trouble.

Poor kid.. You didn't take the Orientation bus for the tour... Wonder what the hell else you've been missing??? LOL...

• Hobbies

Gardening and Landscaping
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Gardening and Landscape Forum. Anything and everything to do with gardening and landscaping.
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Even this peaceful oasis has survived a Russian invasion claiming Americans are poor gardeners...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I've seen these sorts of rules used as slim excuses for moderators to shelve posts they don't like - any provisions for preventing that?

It actually doesn’t matter how dreadful, unfair, capricious, wrongheaded, or one-sided the administration of USMB might be – the administration is at liberty to be all of the above and more.

And like anywhere else if the service is poor, the remedy is to leave.

In theory the administration – faced with the prospect of a message board devoid of participants – will make an effort to improve and be fair and consistent with how it edits content.

In theory.

 

[the other mike]

To sum that up.. We're REQUIRING the Original Posters to START a clean topical discussion.,. No more juiced incendiary titles and ranting OPs.. If it's important enough for you to dash to a keyboard to poke it in -- need to put in the effort to start the discussion with YOUR views of the topic..

Sometimes newsworthy topics speak for themselves don't they ?
Are we supposed to pretend we're all journalists here ?

 

[Gracie]

We always HAVE been a Discussion board. We've always focused almost solely on getting thread topics to be discussed and not on arbitrary content issues.. STILL completely committed to the Free Speech thing.. But lately, the thread titles and Opening Posts have been giving Free Speech a bad name..

The basic rules are not gonna change much.. There's already a clause for not allowing "baiting and polarizing" Titles and OPs. That will be footnoted with something like the following..

Titles and Opening Posts
1) Title must contain sufficient clues about the ACTUAL expected discussion. Titles like "How stupid are These People" can't be SEARCHED or indexed for search for the use of members or mods to find and manage existing active threads.

2) Titles must be free of INFLAMMATORY words, name calling or "pet names".. Those things are what make a title "baiting".

3) The "user content" in OPs that the existing rules require needs to be "stepped up".. "Get a load of this" -- is no longer sufficient topical content"... Must be 2 lines or more.. The more the better.. Must SUMMARIZE the topic to be discussed and why you think it NEEDS discussion..

To sum that up.. We're REQUIRING the Original Posters to START a clean topical discussion.,. No more juiced incendiary titles and ranting OPs.. If it's important enough for you to dash to a keyboard to poke it in -- need to put in the effort to start the discussion with YOUR views of the topic..

Post Content
Currently the Rules require "specific topical content" in EVERY post.. And the moderation method for that is stone simple..

Post has "specific topical content" --- stop reading, ignore the rest, it's legal.
Post LACKS "specific topical content" -- It's illegal.. Delete and/or warn...

1) That rule will edited to read "must contain substantial and relevant topical content".. This means that unsubstantiated generalizations about groups or political opponents is NOT ALONE sufficient as "specific topical content" anymore.. Yeah, you have to stop and think and spend a few calories composing a post..

2) Repetition, badgering, harassment, and repeatedly ignoring requests to clarify or answer questions MAY get you booted or warned... This may be specified in the official rules in the coming days.

3) Meme pics are OK - if they are about topic and NOT just personal and fit the definition of substantial and relevant.

4) Posts on the 1st two opening pages of a thread will be CHECKED by moderation when they visit.. These will be HIGHLY moderated, because the course of thread is determined largely in the 1st pages... If you're caught dropping into a brand new topic just to attack or flame -- you'll be warned and banned for one day.. Assuming there isn't more damage to the thread later on.. If you don't care to DISCUSS the topic first -- DONT DROP IN.. This is probably the most common issue we have with "tone", anger, and stinkyness of this place lately. It's a personality pile-on on Pg1.. Not happening anymore.. Keep a distance from members you consider "retards or morons".. Just ignore what you consider to be crap.. Don't prance thru it barefoot..

Transparency on Warnings.

In addition, to add to visibility of who and what is being warned, Moderation will be leaving visible WARNED posts and adding a flag like -- Mod Note: This is a WARNED post.. Do not reply to it.

Obviously it's a bit of public shaming, but more IMPORTANTLY it gives members feedback about the MASSIVE amount of work that moderation does here everyday.. It's also important to see EXAMPLES what what content and material is actionable and we HOPE folks will see daily what rules are enforced and how..

Note that we cannot do this for EVERY post that went into the warning.. If the member was warned for 3 or 10 posts -- the others will simply be deleted.. So you still wont know the EXTENT of ALL the work that was done on that thread, but it's a start on moderation transparency..

When we say "do not reply" we mean it.. If you have questions -- PM a mod or two..

---------------------------------------------------------

How about we stop there and make these adjustments and hope that improves the tone and anger issues? We realize that the problems this nation face right now don't ORIGINATE on USMB.. We just want to prove that Discussion boards are still relevant to IMPROVING the discussion in the land.. Understand that a fair number of members are here for the brawl.. That's why we created the Taunting Forums.. They are not gulags for punishment.. They are there for folks that WANT to brawl and not be constrained to topics.. We won't be moving as much stuff "downstairs".. A fair portion of failed threads will likely get closed instead.. But if you want ranty/flamey titles/OP/Posts -- we'll open more downstairs forums for that..

AyeCantSeeYou WillHaftawaite Coyote Kat Meister Dont Taz Me Bro

Yer gonna need a bigger "boat". More mods. I hope y'all give us time to get used to these new rules.

 

[Gracie]

If there's topical content in the post and it doesn't contain the 4 or 6 things like family, pedo, beasty, n-words, etc -- ANY mod will overturn that deletion..

Well, I can't edit my newest thread in Breaking News. It has PEDO in it. You'll have to do it cuz its in the title.

 

[Gracie]

Serious question..or rather...an opinion. Or both.

Do you really thinnk NOW is the time to be doing this when things in the real world are so screwed up? Tensions are running high. People need to vent. Topics will wind up off course. Maybe a mod warning of Address The Post, Not The Poster would suffice to cool things off instead of new rules, regulations, how many sentences, temp bannings, etc?

If you make it too FaceBookish or too Twitterish..folks are going to leave. Old guard folks maybe. No, not me. At least, I don't think so. But still......times are bad. We need to say what we need to say, with the original rules still standing of course. No need for a thread to result in someone trolling or name calling instead of just disagreeing. (Yeah, I know. Im guilty of name calling now and then. Its when I'm really stressed. As so many are).

Another question is..do these new guidelines pertain to ALL forums? Badlands? Rubber Room? Flame Zone? Or just upstairs?

 

[the other mike]

Yer gonna need a bigger "boat". More mods. I hope y'all give us time to get used to these new rules.

Couldn't there just be a distinction between the discussion boards or newsworthy boards where the stricter rules should apply and the rest of the forum, sports, entertainment, science, etc....where it can be more lenient ?

 

[Gracie]

Yer gonna need a bigger "boat". More mods. I hope y'all give us time to get used to these new rules.

Couldn't there just be a distinction between the discussion boards or newsworthy boards where the stricter rules should apply and the rest of the forum, sports, entertainment, science, etc....where it can be more lenient ?

If these rules do not affect Badlands, Rubber Room or FZ....I do believe most will move down there for discussion/fights/trolling/bickering and upstairs will collect cobwebs.

Your suggestion is a damn good one.

 

[the other mike]

Yer gonna need a bigger "boat". More mods. I hope y'all give us time to get used to these new rules.

Couldn't there just be a distinction between the discussion boards or newsworthy boards where the stricter rules should apply and the rest of the forum, sports, entertainment, science, etc....where it can be more lenient ?

If these rules do not affect Badlands or FZ....I do believe most will move down there for discussion/fights/trolling/bickering.

Your suggestion is a damn good one.

Do we get compensation for contributing good ideas ?

 

[Gracie]

Maybe a badge or something? For the staff to consider for New Rules and Guidelines. (edited to add that last sentence so I'm still on topic).

 

[the other mike]

Maybe a badge or something?

Speaking of moderation, here's an example of something off topic....
It's like that commercial for Inventors.
"If you have a great invention, call this number now"
Like you won't be lucky to get 5% of the profits it if it's successful.

 

[Gracie]

Maybe a badge or something?

It's like that commercial for Inventors.
"If you have a great invention, call this number now"
Like you won't be lucky to get 5% of the profits it if it's successful.

pssssssst. Off topic. Yer gonna get in trouble. Toss in some words to soothe. Like....New Rules for inventors of USMB ideas, are there any conspensations? and stuff like that.
*wink*

 

[Mindful]

I notice there's no gardening forum here; can we get one? But then there are those pesky organic gardeners versus better-living-through-modern-chemicals gardeners... Or square foot gardeners versus the garden of eden gardeners.. Nevermind.. A gardening forum would cause far too much trouble.

Poor kid.. You didn't take the Orientation bus for the tour... Wonder what the hell else you've been missing??? LOL...

• Hobbies

Gardening and Landscaping
Post thread
Gardening and Landscape Forum. Anything and everything to do with gardening and landscaping.
Prev

• 1

Even this peaceful oasis has survived a Russian invasion claiming Americans are poor gardeners...

That WAS funny.

When you told us off for misbehaving.

I think Toro and l were amongst those sent to the naughty step. Our buckets and spades were confiscated, and we were banished to the garden shed.

 

[Gracie]

Seriously...they are gonna have to get more mods. I have been all over this board the past half hour, reading titles, some comments, and its a mess with lots of New Rule breakings.
Be diverse. Black. Female. Or Hispanic. Female. Asian. Female. Hey! PoliticalChick would be great! She doesn't resort to name calling. Neither does Foxfyre or Beautress. Not sure of their race though.

Now gimme my NIFNR badge. (New Ideas For New Rules)