Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust

[Coyote]

Really Bibi? Really? I'm sure this is going to go a long ways towards calming the situation - something no one in a leadership position seems to be doing!

Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust

JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked uproar in Israel on Wednesday for suggesting that a World War II-era Palestinian leader convinced the Nazis to adopt their Final Solution to exterminate European Jews.

Holocaust experts slammed Netanyahu's comments as historically inaccurate and serving the interests of Holocaust deniers by lessening the responsibility of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. Critics also said the statement amounts to incitement against modern-day Palestinians in the midst of a wave of violent unrest and Israeli-Palestinian tensions.

Speaking to a group of Jewish leaders Tuesday, Netanyahu tried to use a historical anecdote to illustrate his point that Palestinian incitement surrounding Jerusalem's most sensitive holy site goes back decades.

He said the World War II-era Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Nazi sympathizer Haj Amin al-Husseini, instigated Palestinian attacks on Jews over lies that they planned to destroy the Temple Mount, known to Muslims at the Noble Sanctuary.

The hilltop compound in Jerusalem's Old City, housing the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the gold-topped Dome of the Rock, lies at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and completing claims over it are the source of the current round of violence. It is the third-holiest site in Islam and the holiest site in Judaism, where the two Jewish biblical Temples once stood.

Netanyahu said al-Husseini played a "central role in fomenting the final solution" by trying to convince Hitler to destroy the Jews during a 1941 meeting in Berlin.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.

Moshe Zimmermann, a prominent Holocaust and anti-Semitism researcher at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu made a "far-reaching argument" for political purposes that didn't hold water. He said the comments essentially made Netanyahu a Holocaust denier.

"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial," he told The Associated Press.

Al-Husseini was an enthusiastic Nazi supporter. But Zimmermann called him a "lightweight" who was pleading with Hitler for assistance in getting rid of the British Mandate and the Jewish immigrants coming to the Holy Land. He said there was no evidence al-Husseini had any real influence on Hitler...

Learn some history CAIR girl

From the OP...in case you missed it:

Netanyahu said al-Husseini played a "central role in fomenting the final solution" by trying to convince Hitler to destroy the Jews during a 1941 meeting in Berlin.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.

Moshe Zimmermann, a prominent Holocaust and anti-Semitism researcher at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu made a "far-reaching argument" for political purposes that didn't hold water. He said the comments essentially made Netanyahu a Holocaust denier.

"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial," he told The Associated Press.

Al-Husseini was an enthusiastic Nazi supporter. But Zimmermann called him a "lightweight" who was pleading with Hitler for assistance in getting rid of the British Mandate and the Jewish immigrants coming to the Holy Land. He said there was no evidence al-Husseini had any real influence on Hitler...​

Hitler was talking about a "Final Solution" in Mein Kampf.

Well as we are aware there are several versions of Mein Kampf out:

What I read is he originally wanted to ship families out together, as a family unit, and the final solution would be individuals will be sent out, splitting families up just to get them out.

Did you actually read him discussing genocide as a final solution?

Hitler was very clear that he wanted the "destruction of the Jewish race" - most people would consider that threats of genocide, and he certainly acted on it. Please don't try to white wash him.

 

[Challenger]

...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?

 

[Synthaholic]

One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.

I equate it with Holocaust denialism.

And so do senior Israeli Rabbis.

I don't equate it with Holocaust denial. Do you know why? It is because both Hitler and the Grand Mufti were murderous Jew hating thugs. The only question becomes, who had the idea first? Well who really gives a damn?

Conversely, the Holocaust denial movement is based upon the assumption that the Zionists were given the land in large part because of their suffering abroad in Europe over the centuries that climaxed in Nazi Germany. Therefore, they wish to rewrite history in order to erase the empathy towards their need to have their own country back.

Netanyahu echoed some of the sentiments of historical revisionists and Holocaust deniers who have said Hitler's main intention had been to expel Jews from Germany.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hitler didn't need convincing to destroy the Jews. Netenyahu needs a good swift kick in the ass.

Is that why you democrats gave Iran the Obamanuke?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm a leftist.

Why would I hate Jews?

Because your allies in Al Qaeda do.

democrats and radical Islamists have a common enemy - America.

 

[Coyote]

Oh, I see - so if they hate, or spread hate, or incite the get a free pass? The Palestinians are held accountable but not the Israeli's? Come on Aris - this is a HEAD OF STATE - he is responsible for ALL his citizens, and for insuring the peace and security and well being of all his people - why is he saying crap like that which is designed only to inflame and spread fear and violence???? How is that being responsible? The excuses I hear are - well, Abbas is doing it...well, the Palestinians teach hate...well, does that make it right?

Yet the mufti was convicted for his part in the holocaust, so why is Netanyahu off base? The mufti was paid in gold to carry on the extermination of jews.

Hitlers own speech after the '41 meeting with the mufti call for the elimination of jews and their agreement on the subject.

............but Netanyahu is the liar?

Here are Netanyahu's words:

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said,

.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Lie or truth?

Hitler came out the meeting with the mufti and spoke of the agreement to eliminate the jews. With in moths the formal plan was laid out and implemented.

So hitler lied about the agreement with the mufti in '41?

How was Netanyhu wrong about the mufti's concerns regarding the jews being deported and going to Israel or wanting hitler to burn them?

This is what he said:

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said,

.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"
​

From the article I quoted earlier in this thread:

But the book says that the mufti “met Hitler in person for the first time” on Nov. 28, 1941 — two months before the Final Solution was formalized and the construction of extermination camps accelerated, according to historians, but after the mass murder of Jews had begun, and roughly one million had perished.

Professor Zimmermann, the Hebrew University historian, said on Israel Radio that Mr. Netanyahu was “doing something he must not do,” and that in “the protocol” of the 1941 meeting between the mufti and Hitler, “the text that Netanyahu speaks of does not appear.”

“He moves the responsibility of the Holocaust, for the destruction of the Jews, to the mufti and the Arab world,” Professor Zimmermann said. “This is a trick intended to stain the Arabs of today because of the Arabs of the past. To pile on the Arabs of the past by easing up on the Germans of the past.”

Professor Litvak of Tel Aviv University said the speech was “the height of the distortion of history.”

“Hitler did not need Husseini to convince him.” he said on Army Radio. “Hitler spoke of the destruction of the Jews in his famous speech in 1939, in which he prophesied that if war will break out and the Jews started it, the result will be the destruction of the Jewish race. He repeated these declarations.”
​

1. Hitler's genocide of the Jews had been rationalized and started well before he met with the Mufti, according to historians quoted - one million had already perished by then and Hitler had spoke about the destruction of the Jewish race in 1939.
2. There is no historic record for the quote Netanyahu claims the Mufti made.

So yes, I would say Netanyahu's statements were lies. What else would you call them?

before WWII, hitler did was willing to expel the jews and after the '41 face ti face with the mufti hitler was ready to draw up plans for the final solution. It coincides with mufti's visit and was stated by hitler after the meeting.

What is happening today is a carry over of the hate and violence the mufti created.

Netanyahu Wrong About Hitler, Right About Palestinian Mufti

The holocaust was for the two of them a mutual necessity

There is no evidence that that came out of his meeting with the Mufti and the quote Netanyahu claims can not be authenticated by historians. The Mufti was a minor figure to Hitler, not the architect of his final solution. Hitler was already killing Jews before he met the Mufti - in 1940 he was slaughtering Jews in Poland.

The claim that he just wanted to expel them is partially true, when his sites were set on Germany only but he had already turned to his final solution before the Mufti.

If the Mufti gave him the idea - where is the evidence - documents of the meeting don't show it.

 

[Coyote]

Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.

 

[Phoenall]

The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברהTranslit.:heskem haavaraTranslated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.[1][2]
Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939.[6]

After the invasion of Poland and the onset of World War II in 1939, the practical continuation of the Haavara agreement became impossible. In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine
Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which was all scrapped when the mufti told Hitler he did not want the Jews and he should " BURN THEM "

 

[Phoenall]

,

Mathematically, you have stated "Israeli Jews are afraid of Arab attackers and Israeli Arabs are afraid of Jewish retaliation" in the correct order.
Morally, you are equating retaliation with deliberate murder.
You've got to be kidding yourself.

Murder is murder, and if you disguise it as "retaliation" it is no less murder when innocent people are killed.

Bullshit.
Muslims are murdering humans all over the globe.
One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.
Are you an idiot?

You don't seem to comprehend what I wrote. Are you an idiot?

I'm talking about Palestinians killing Jews and Jews killing Palestinians. This is occurring. When the people being targeted are innocent, it's usually called "murder".

The Palestinians are the murderers as the Jews are retaliating to the existential threat of being murders by Palestinians. If Black September announced that African Americans would be killing random white Americans you could bet that the rate of black American deaths would go through the roof. And the lawyers would use the threat as the reason for the deaths and that is why they were all self defence. The same applies to Jerusalem and the deaths of Palestinians are self defence because the threat has been made

That makes no sense. Murder is murder. When you killed a person who is not threatening you - it's murder.

Since Abu Mazen made the threat 2 weeks ago then every Palestinian became a possible murderer. So the threat is there no matter how hard you try and hide it.

 

[Phoenall]

From the OP...in case you missed it:

Netanyahu said al-Husseini played a "central role in fomenting the final solution" by trying to convince Hitler to destroy the Jews during a 1941 meeting in Berlin.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu told the group. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?' he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Historians quickly noted that the Nazi Final Solution was already well underway at this point, with several concentration camps up and running. Hitler had previously repeatedly declared his lethal intentions for the Jews.

Moshe Zimmermann, a prominent Holocaust and anti-Semitism researcher at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu made a "far-reaching argument" for political purposes that didn't hold water. He said the comments essentially made Netanyahu a Holocaust denier.

"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial," he told The Associated Press.

Al-Husseini was an enthusiastic Nazi supporter. But Zimmermann called him a "lightweight" who was pleading with Hitler for assistance in getting rid of the British Mandate and the Jewish immigrants coming to the Holy Land. He said there was no evidence al-Husseini had any real influence on Hitler...​

Did you understand that part you singled out then, as it says that Hitler gave the Mufti the go ahead to mass murder the Jews already in Palestine as there were plenty more were they came from. It was through the Mufti that the Nuremberg laws came to be passed as they are based on the pact of Omar that the mufti explained to his friends in the Nazi party.

1. No one is denying the Mufti was a hateful little antisemite who was responsible for war crimes - that isn't the issue. He was an evil man.
2. Do you have a link or proof for your second claim?

Reality Check:
The Nuremberg laws were passed in 1935.
There is nothing there that indicates the Mufti had anything to do with it. His first approach to Hitler was 1940.

Mufti had been in communication with Hitler since '33. Final solution was not even suggested till '41. Jews were persecuted and being rounded up, but the extermination did not begin till after the Mufti and Hitler discussed it.

Make a timeline of all correspondance and meeting with Germany and the mufti, then add in the direct meeting with Hitler. Compare that to the jewish question.

Sorry but it is not coincident when things changed.

Check the library, I'm sure there are lot of good books in English going back from the end of the war till the last decade, all connecting the mufti, hitler and holocaust. most of my books were dated from the 50's to 80's, with copies of german documents. I wish I still had access to them.

You expected the mufti to dissuade hitler? To suggest alternatives? You think the Mufti was neutral? That he was not thrilled by the final solution? That he took action to save masses of jews? He had been advocating the extermination since the 20's. The Mufti actively incited and justified massacres of jews. Now you want to white wash his image? Nothing suggest the mufti did not feed hitler's hate and paranoia. Mufti was paid to carry on the holocaust in eastern Europe and the middle east, in gold.

>>Dr. Serge Trifkovic documents the similarities between Al Husseini's brand of radical Islam and Nazism in his book The Sword of the Prophet. He noted parallels in both ideologies: anti-Semitism, quest for world dominance, demand for the total subordination of the free will of the individual, belief in the abolishment of the nation-state in favor of a "higher" community (in Islam the umma or community of all believers; in Nazism, the herrenvolk or master race), and belief in undemocratic governance by a "divine" leader (an Islamic caliph, or Nazi führer).

The Nazis provided Al Husseini with luxurious accommodations in Berlin and a monthly stipend in excess of $10,000. In return, he regularly appeared on German radio touting the Jews as the "most fierce enemies of Muslims," and implored an adoption of the Nazi "final solution" by Arabs. After the Nazi defeat at El Alamein in 1942, Al Husseini broadcast radio messages on Radio Berlin calling for continued Arabic resistance to Allied forces. In time, he came to be known as the "Fuhrer's Mufti" and the "Arab Fuhrer."

In March 1944, Al Husseini broadcast a call for a jihad to "kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion."

On numerous occasions, Al Husseini intervened in the fate of European Jews, most notably blocking Adolph Eichmann's deal with the Red Cross to exchange Jewish children for German POWs.

Moreover, Al Husseini personally recruited Bosnia Muslims for the German Waffen SS, including the Skanderberg Division from Albania and Hanjer Division from Bosnia. The Hanjer (Saber) Division of the Waffen SS was responsible for the murder of over 90 percent of the Yugoslavian Jewish population.

SS leader Heinrich Himmler was so pleased with Al Husseini's Muslim Nazis that he established the Dresden-based Mullah Military School for their continued recruitment and training. In 1944, Hanjer commandos parachuted into Tel Aviv and poisoned drinking wells in Jewish communities in an effort to stir up ethnic tensions.<<

Now you want to rewrite history to soften the mufti's involvement? The muslim brotherhood was support by hitler since the mid 30's. The mufti living in berlin for almost five years as a special guest of hitler's forking out $12 million a year, plus paying for his muslim SS army and the MB in the middle east.

You think hitler just through the mufti was a nice guy? You think Hitler was so generous when most germans earned maybe a couple thousand a year?

After the '41 meeting hitler made a public statement that "(the Fuhrer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe. A few months later the actual plans were drawn up to carry out the final solution and then put into play. Hitler even gave the mufti a written declaration of support and the plans they discussed after that meeting. How is this coincidence?

Also proving that the Nuremberg laws were based on the pact of Omar, sharia and dhimmi laws because the mufti informed hitler and his Generals how the muslim dealt with the Jews and other undesirables

Prove it because I can find no historical records of that and historians seem to be refuting your claim.

You mean the ones that you are prepared to read because they support your POV. I have just linked to a Wiki article on another thread that states that the Mufti was heavily involved with the Nazis as far back as 1932.

 

[Indeependent]

Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.

They're painting themselves as well.
You must have missed the current "Kill the Jews" fest.

 

[aris2chat]

...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?

They did try. Mufti was living in Cairo for years before he was deported and went to Beirut. Camps were protected areas. While alive, his home was considered under the same protection as a "representative" of the Palestinians, like a de facto embassy. Jordan also was hunting him.

His offspring continued the connection to violence and hate.

 

[Phoenall]

So, Nutty Yahoo thinks Hitler was not responsible for the Holocaust and that the Palestinians were. Desperate man.

No he says that the Nazi's and the Palestinians were equally responsible for the holocaust and the genocide of 12 million innocents


Are you being a HOLOCAUST DENIER

Netanyahu seems to be.

HOW when he is placing the blame partly on the Palestinians. He is not saying that the Germans did not take part is he, or that Hitler did not order the mass murders. All he is saying is that the mufti had a part in the holocaust and he is reminding the world that he was not tried for his war crimes. Maybe if he had been then none of the problems in Palestine would be in evidence now.

 

[montelatici]

I'm a leftist.

Why would I hate Jews?

Because your allies in Al Qaeda do.

democrats and radical Islamists have a common enemy - America.

Right-wingers and radical Islamists have a common enemy, secular Syria. Left wingers despise religious fundies you moron.

 

[montelatici]

...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?

They did try. Mufti was living in Cairo for years before he was deported and went to Beirut. Camps were protected areas. While alive, his home was considered under the same protection as a "representative" of the Palestinians, like a de facto embassy. Jordan also was hunting him.

His offspring continued the connection to violence and hate.

His offspring continued resisting the Jewish invasion and dispossession of the Christian and Muslim lands colonized by the Europeans.

 

[Coyote]

,

Murder is murder, and if you disguise it as "retaliation" it is no less murder when innocent people are killed.

Bullshit.
Muslims are murdering humans all over the globe.
One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.
Are you an idiot?

You don't seem to comprehend what I wrote. Are you an idiot?

I'm talking about Palestinians killing Jews and Jews killing Palestinians. This is occurring. When the people being targeted are innocent, it's usually called "murder".

The Palestinians are the murderers as the Jews are retaliating to the existential threat of being murders by Palestinians. If Black September announced that African Americans would be killing random white Americans you could bet that the rate of black American deaths would go through the roof. And the lawyers would use the threat as the reason for the deaths and that is why they were all self defence. The same applies to Jerusalem and the deaths of Palestinians are self defence because the threat has been made

That makes no sense. Murder is murder. When you killed a person who is not threatening you - it's murder.

Since Abu Mazen made the threat 2 weeks ago then every Palestinian became a possible murderer. So the threat is there no matter how hard you try and hide it.

No one is absolving Abbas of stirring the flames, but Netanyahu gets a free pass.

Now every Jew becomes a potential murderer since Netanyahu told them to take up arms.

So where is this going to go? Who's going to act the part of statesman and calm fears?

Not Bibi. Not Abu Mazen.

 

[Phoenall]

Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.

And he is partly correct in this as islam is the mother and father of Nazism, it is the founding of Nazism as shown by the koran, hadiths and sharia laws

 

[Phoenall]

...and yet still no-one can adequately answer the question, if Zionist Israel was prepared to spend time and resources hunting down Eichmann across the other side of the world 1000 miles away, why they never bothered to bring the Mufti to trial, who lived out his life peacefully in Beirut only 100miles away?

They did try. Mufti was living in Cairo for years before he was deported and went to Beirut. Camps were protected areas. While alive, his home was considered under the same protection as a "representative" of the Palestinians, like a de facto embassy. Jordan also was hunting him.

His offspring continued the connection to violence and hate.

His offspring continued resisting the Jewish invasion and dispossession of the Christian and Muslim lands colonized by the Europeans.

No they were psychopathic mass murderers that gloried in the rape and murder of Christians. Or don't you know about Arafat and Lebanon.

 

[Coyote]

Netanyahu's aim is to paint the Palestinians as the living heritage of Hitler and prevent any meaningful diplomatic initiative, much less a state - that is clearly supported by other statements he has made on Arab Israeli voters, and on how he will never allow a state for them.

And he is partly correct in this as islam is the mother and father of Nazism, it is the founding of Nazism as shown by the koran, hadiths and sharia laws

No, it isn't. That's just more hate mongering and avoiding responsibility for genocide. Nazism sprang out of European anti-semitism, eugenics and ideals of racial "superiority" and "purity".

 

[Phoenall]

,

Bullshit.
Muslims are murdering humans all over the globe.
One Jew says something and you equate that with murder.
Are you an idiot?

You don't seem to comprehend what I wrote. Are you an idiot?

I'm talking about Palestinians killing Jews and Jews killing Palestinians. This is occurring. When the people being targeted are innocent, it's usually called "murder".

The Palestinians are the murderers as the Jews are retaliating to the existential threat of being murders by Palestinians. If Black September announced that African Americans would be killing random white Americans you could bet that the rate of black American deaths would go through the roof. And the lawyers would use the threat as the reason for the deaths and that is why they were all self defence. The same applies to Jerusalem and the deaths of Palestinians are self defence because the threat has been made

That makes no sense. Murder is murder. When you killed a person who is not threatening you - it's murder.

Since Abu Mazen made the threat 2 weeks ago then every Palestinian became a possible murderer. So the threat is there no matter how hard you try and hide it.

No one is absolving Abbas of stirring the flames, but Netanyahu gets a free pass.

Now every Jew becomes a potential murderer since Netanyahu told them to take up arms.

So where is this going to go? Who's going to act the part of statesman and calm fears?

Not Bibi. Not Abu Mazen.

And it all started with Abu Mazen calling for the Palestinians to take up arms and kill the Jews, don't forget that when the real fighting starts. Once again the Palestinians are eager for a fight and don't care how many innocents they kill in the process.