Navy Officer Suspended for 'Anti-Semitism'

[William Joyce]

I will state however, that hatred is almost ALWYAS born of fear; otherwise, there is no real basis for the hatred.

So what if hatred is based on fear? Is this a sign it's illegitimate? I must reject the liberal line you're pushing here, i.e., that "hatred" is never justified because "fear" is always irrational.

Is it? Am I wrong to hate/fear the Muslims destroying our country with terrorism?

And it's fine form for liberals to inveigh about the "hate" and "fear" of conservatives, etc. You guys hate and fear with more intensity than any Klansman, that's for sure.

 

[Gunny]

So what if hatred is based on fear? Is this a sign it's illegitimate? I must reject the liberal line you're pushing here, i.e., that "hatred" is never justified because "fear" is always irrational.

Is it? Am I wrong to hate/fear the Muslims destroying our country with terrorism?

And it's fine form for liberals to inveigh about the "hate" and "fear" of conservatives, etc. You guys hate and fear with more intensity than any Klansman, that's for sure.

Dude, did you have to take a hit of acid to dream up all those words you put in my mouth and then call me a liberal? I WAS trying to be polite.

What's the difference between those Muslims trying to destroy our country out of fear and hatred, and YOU?

Not a lot.

 

[jillian]

I have tried to explain my thoughts, will you please explain why you feel as you do? Just a wild guess, but I think well over the majority of the citizens of this great United States feels as I do. I have been in all the lower 48 states, worked in 40 of them, and never once , not once, met anyone in person that doesn't feel the same way I do. Every time the subject would be brought up, all you would hear is "Nukeum". So I think you are in the minority.

Interestingly, I'd never experienced anti-semitism until I started posting. I don't believe it's a majority of anything. And if it is, that's far more pathetic.

Why do I feel as I do? Because anyone who thinks my 9 year old son should be dead because he's born a jew is dangerous and sad. That's why.

Maybe you're just naturally associating with like-minded people.

 

[Gunny]

Interestingly, I'd never experienced anti-semitism until I started posting. I don't believe it's a majority of anything. And if it is, that's far more pathetic.

Why do I feel as I do? Because anyone who thinks my 9 year old son should be dead because he's born a jew is dangerous and sad. That's why.

Maybe you're just naturally associating with like-minded people.

Don't worry ... Nazis don't exterminate all children righ off the bat. They keep some alive for experimentation.

 

[jillian]

Don't worry ... Nazis don't exterminate all children righ off the bat. They keep some alive for experimentation.

Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttt!

In all seriousness, that was one of the worst things I ever had to explain to my son. Can you imagine having to talk to a first grader about that after he just read The Diary of Anne Frank for school?

 

[Annie]

Interestingly, I'd never experienced anti-semitism until I started posting. I don't believe it's a majority of anything. And if it is, that's far more pathetic.

Why do I feel as I do? Because anyone who thinks my 9 year old son should be dead because he's born a jew is dangerous and sad. That's why.

Maybe you're just naturally associating with like-minded people.

I hear you. Actually, I heard it before I heard you.

 

[jillian]

I hear you. Actually, I heard it before I heard you.

Yeah, I know.

 

[Gunny]

Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttt!

In all seriousness, that was one of the worst things I ever had to explain to my son. Can you imagine having to talk to a first grader about that after he just read The Diary of Anne Frank for school?

No, I think it's too complex an issue for a first grader.

 

[Annie]

No, I think it's too complex an issue for a first grader.

Oh, the Nazis killed much younger than 6 year olds. Purposely.

 

[jillian]

No, I think it's too complex an issue for a first grader.

So did I. But his teacher assigned it for a report and he'd read it already before I found out about it. Truth, though? We find out about that stuff real young. It's part of the culture, unfortunately.

 

[Gunny]

Oh, the Nazis killed much younger than 6 year olds. Purposely.

I know. I was speaking to the complexity of the Holocaust and teaching it to a 6 years old. I don't believe the 6 year old mind is capable of dealing with the complex issues that surrounded it.

Which makes it all the more tragic, given your comment. Those children the Nazis butchered had no clue.

 

[Gunny]

So did I. But his teacher assigned it for a report and he'd read it already before I found out about it. Truth, though? We find out about that stuff real young. It's part of the culture, unfortunately.

I suspected as much when you posted that.

 

[Merlin]

I will state however, that hatred is almost ALWYAS born of fear; otherwise, there is no real basis for the hatred.

I respectfully but totally disagree with that statement. Fear has nothing to do with hate. Hate and fear are two totally different human emotions, both I may add, are almost always for the most part, uncontrollable. A person can't control hate any more than he/she can control breathing while asleep. A person CAN control his/her ACTIONS from either emotion though, but they will still be there regardless of the action taken whether it be good or bad. There are lawmakers, judges, politicians, policemen, preachers, teachers, and the list goes on and on that feels the same way I do in their hearts that hates people for any number of reasons, and that list goes on and on also, and some would anilalate whole countries if it were in their control. Out of six billion + people in this world, 100 percent is hated by someone for one reason or another. Being different is one of them. Maybe misunderstanding is another reason for hate.

 

[Gunny]

I respectfully but totally disagree with that statement. Fear has nothing to do with hate. Hate and fear are two totally different human emotions, both I may add, are almost always for the most part, uncontrollable. A person can't control hate any more than he/she can control breathing while asleep. A person CAN control his/her ACTIONS from either emotion though, but they will still be there regardless of the action taken whether it be good or bad. There are lawmakers, judges, politicians, policemen, preachers, teachers, and the list goes on and on that feels the same way I do in their hearts that hates people for any number of reasons, and that list goes on and on also, and some would anilalate whole countries if it were in their control. Out of six billion + people in this world, 100 percent is hated by someone for one reason or another. Being different is one of them. Maybe misunderstanding is another reason for hate.

You disagree that hatred is born of fear; yet, you show no basis for hatred to exist without fear. Fear becomes hatred, it is not a separate emotion until it reaches that transition.

Fear of difference is a basic animal instinct, and examples within the animal kingdom abound. Thsi goes back to my original statement. As humans, our superiority over the animal kingdom is our intellect. Acting like animals is not taking advantage of our superiority.

Hate is controlled easily by logic, reasoning and/or education. Cultural/societal fear/hatred is almost alwasy based on ignorance and misunderstanding rather than any real threat.

I also do not necessarily agree with your statement in regard to all the stellar members of our society you mentioned above feeling the same as you. I'm not saying some don't ... it is just my opinion that you have a skewed idea concerning the percentages.

Hatred/fear are not required to recognize a threat/enemy; neither, are either required in seeking a solution to the "present danger." The more emotional the response, the less rational/logical the response is likely to be.

WJ brought up Islamic terrorists. Is there reason to fear them? Yes. They wish to bring about the destruction of our culture/society by whatever means they have to, and their idea of negotiation is "us dead."

Does that justify hating them? IMO, no. Does that justify hating every muslim in the world? IMO, no.

Holding all Muslims accountable for the actions of less than 10% of all Muslims worldwide is akin to those who try to hold us ALL us white folk accountable for whites who owned blacks 142+ years ago. My ancestors didn't own any and I'm not apologizing for a damned thing I neither participated in nor even had a say in.

Perhaps most of these "Semites" as you call them, feel the same about you? But your answer appears to be resigning yourself to hating them back, and using their hatred as justification.

I don't hate my enemies. That doesn't mean I can't see who they are, and/or would hesitate to use whatever means necessary at my disposal to stop them from acting on their hatred against me.

And what has brought down more white supremist/separatist groups in this Nation more than anything else is not the perceived enmy from without, but the traitor from within.

So, even from the standpoint of destroying one's enemies, hatred is counterproductive from a military sense as it distorts the reality of the situation. The usefulness of fear fueled into hatred ends with the propaganda machine.

 

[ErikViking]

About beeing different:

Alot of energy and thoughts are going in to defining differance. Different to me or different to us.

When we let differance be a factor of fear/hate we open the door to possibly fearing and hating everyone. We are all different. The more homogenous a group the lesser the differance is required to be an issue.



Try focusing on stuff that unite sometimes.
- Those people also like sports!
- Look, they also hate monday mornings!
- They too think you should marry before having sex.

- Or what ever -

 

[Merlin]

You disagree that hatred is born of fear; yet, you show no basis for hatred to exist without fear. Fear becomes hatred, it is not a separate emotion until it reaches that transition.

Fear of difference is a basic animal instinct, and examples within the animal kingdom abound. Thsi goes back to my original statement. As humans, our superiority over the animal kingdom is our intellect. Acting like animals is not taking advantage of our superiority.

Hate is controlled easily by logic, reasoning and/or education. Cultural/societal fear/hatred is almost alwasy based on ignorance and misunderstanding rather than any real threat.

I also do not necessarily agree with your statement in regard to all the stellar members of our society you mentioned above feeling the same as you. I'm not saying some don't ... it is just my opinion that you have a skewed idea concerning the percentages.

Hatred/fear are not required to recognize a threat/enemy; neither, are either required in seeking a solution to the "present danger." The more emotional the response, the less rational/logical the response is likely to be.

WJ brought up Islamic terrorists. Is there reason to fear them? Yes. They wish to bring about the destruction of our culture/society by whatever means they have to, and their idea of negotiation is "us dead."

Does that justify hating them? IMO, no. Does that justify hating every muslim in the world? IMO, no.

Holding all Muslims accountable for the actions of less than 10% of all Muslims worldwide is akin to those who try to hold us ALL us white folk accountable for whites who owned blacks 142+ years ago. My ancestors didn't own any and I'm not apologizing for a damned thing I neither participated in nor even had a say in.

Perhaps most of these "Semites" as you call them, feel the same about you? But your answer appears to be resigning yourself to hating them back, and using their hatred as justification.

I don't hate my enemies. That doesn't mean I can't see who they are, and/or would hesitate to use whatever means necessary at my disposal to stop them from acting on their hatred against me.

And what has brought down more white supremist/separatist groups in this Nation more than anything else is not the perceived enmy from without, but the traitor from within.

So, even from the standpoint of destroying one's enemies, hatred is counterproductive from a military sense as it distorts the reality of the situation. The usefulness of fear fueled into hatred ends with the propaganda machine.

So eloquently written. Writing is not one of my strong points, as you can see.
You say hate is easily controlled by logic. On the contrary, hate is not controlled at all, only the actions can be controlled from an emotion. The emotion is still there but can sometimes be CHANGED by education. It is logical that the 10 percent of Muslims are not going to bother me in any way, but I still hate them, because they belong to a hate group. I know people in the kkk that is fine, upstanding individuals that even has seats in Government, but I don't want to associate with them either. I don't hate them individually, but I hate them collectivity. And yes, the "Semites" as I call them feel exactly toward me as I do them.

 

[Gunny]

So eloquently written. Writing is not one of my strong points, as you can see.
You say hate is easily controlled by logic. On the contrary, hate is not controlled at all, only the actions can be controlled from an emotion. The emotion is still there but can sometimes be CHANGED by education. It is logical that the 10 percent of Muslims are not going to bother me in any way, but I still hate them, because they belong to a hate group. I know people in the kkk that is fine, upstanding individuals that even has seats in Government, but I don't want to associate with them either. I don't hate them individually, but I hate them collectivity. And yes, the "Semites" as I call them feel exactly toward me as I do them.

I guess where my fundamental disagree with you is .... that hatred is illogical. It is emotion-based. Logic/fact/education does not control hatred, it destroys it. It is an unneccesary, blind and counterproductive emotion.

Please elaborate on who and what you consider a "hate group." Appearance-wise, it looks as if you consider anyone/thing that does not belong to you or particular gorup and/or embrace your particular beliefs is a "hate group."

BTW ... I'm not asking you to justify why you do or do not hate someone. I'm trying to comprehend a mindset completely foreign to mine.

 

[Merlin]

I guess where my fundamental disagree with you is .... that hatred is illogical. It is emotion-based. Logic/fact/education does not control hatred, it destroys it. It is an unneccesary, blind and counterproductive emotion.

Please elaborate on who and what you consider a "hate group." Appearance-wise, it looks as if you consider anyone/thing that does not belong to you or particular group and/or embrace your particular beliefs is a "hate group."

BTW ... I'm not asking you to justify why you do or do not hate someone. I'm trying to comprehend a mindset completely foreign to mine.

I'm not sure I can define my definition of a hate group per se to your satisfaction. Anyone who wants to claim a different way of life for me and goes around demonstrating, rioting, using the courts, etc., etc., to do so to make my way of life change to their believes is in the hate group. Muslims has always been and always will be one of the biggest hate groups that has ever been on the face of the earth. They try to guise themselves as a religion, but that is baloney. You and I do have one thing in common though. We can't understand each others mindset. One more thing to add to the discussion, I don't like Japanese. I haven't forgiven them for killing my relatives. When one comes on my TV the channel is changed before you can say ice cream. But I have had this, as you say, mindset for neigh on 7 decades and no amount of education or logic can change it now. I grew up with it, my forefathers taught it, my teachers taught it, my Sunday school taught me that all Semites were going to hell and EVERYONE I have ever net personally has the exact same opinion. Right or wrong, I accept it.

 

[Emmett]

I'm not sure I can define my definition of a hate group per se to your satisfaction. Anyone who wants to claim a different way of life for me and goes around demonstrating, rioting, using the courts, etc., etc., to do so to make my way of life change to their believes is in the hate group. Muslims has always been and always will be one of the biggest hate groups that has ever been on the face of the earth. They try to guise themselves as a religion, but that is baloney. You and I do have one thing in common though. We can't understand each others mindset. One more thing to add to the discussion, I don't like Japanese. I haven't forgiven them for killing my relatives. When one comes on my TV the channel is changed before you can say ice cream. But I have had this, as you say, mindset for neigh on 7 decades and no amount of education or logic can change it now. I grew up with it, my forefathers taught it, my teachers taught it, my Sunday school taught me that all Semites were going to hell and EVERYONE I have ever net personally has the exact same opinion. Right or wrong, I accept it.

Merlin, did you ever have a fight with you brother? Another relative, neighbor or bully in school?

The passion you felt at the moment controlled your thinking. Hating the Japanese as you mentioned earlier is wrong in my opinion for this reason. Just like in a fight, the victor isn't always correct in the argument, only stronger! The Japanese not only surrendered, they admitted defeat. Both in War and in Philosophy. When you go into your room tonight and flip on your Japanese TV, maybe listen to a little music on your Japanese radio / stereo, you will realize that the ride to work in your Japanese car tomorrow really isn't that bad. Oh, your car isn't Japanese you say! Better check again.

Japanese did kill our ancestors and relatives. We killed theirs. Over a disagreement. A huge disagreement. Such as is true with many cultures in our world. We are all different. Some cultures disgust me. I don't hate them, well, maybe some I do, but what I hate is their culture, activities or beliefs. If they were more like me, I could like them. Hate breeds hate man. In order for the world to get to a point where there is none we would all just have to be perfect wouldn't we?

The word "hate" is largely taken out of context when discussed like we are now. A hate crime, I hate you, you hate me, I hate it, I hate brussel sprouts. Hate, hate hate hate hate hate . I hate drug dealers, disrespect, pain, child molestors, rapists and the price of gas. I hate not having any money.

If you hate Japanese people, ALL Japanese people for the acts committed by their ancestors, BUT......you do not attack them physically because it is against the law or for whatever reason, you are showing them respect. That's a start! What if a Japanese cop was about to pull you out of a burning car, would you refuse his help? I think not so you actually are just venting frustration that your relatives or friends were killed by war. Hell, hate war! It is possible to hate war and be good at it. Audie Murphy hated war, he was pretty good at it. Sgt Alvin York dispised war, he was pretty good at it too. I believe he even said something about how he didn't hate "them German fellaws" , he just knew the fastest way to end the war was to win the war.

Do you hate Germans?

If you are from the south, do you hate northern folks? Visa Versa!

Maybe my way of explaining this lacked the elegance of my friend Gunny"s magic pen and unique insight, however I am curious to see how you will answer.

You usually make your points quite well.

 

[Merlin]

Merlin, did you ever have a fight with you brother? Another relative, neighbor or bully in school?

The passion you felt at the moment controlled your thinking. Hating the Japanese as you mentioned earlier is wrong in my opinion for this reason. Just like in a fight, the victor isn't always correct in the argument, only stronger! The Japanese not only surrendered, they admitted defeat. Both in War and in Philosophy. When you go into your room tonight and flip on your Japanese TV, maybe listen to a little music on your Japanese radio / stereo, you will realize that the ride to work in your Japanese car tomorrow really isn't that bad. Oh, your car isn't Japanese you say! Better check again.

Japanese did kill our ancestors and relatives. We killed theirs. Over a disagreement. A huge disagreement. Such as is true with many cultures in our world. We are all different. Some cultures disgust me. I don't hate them, well, maybe some I do, but what I hate is their culture, activities or beliefs. If they were more like me, I could like them. Hate breeds hate man. In order for the world to get to a point where there is none we would all just have to be perfect wouldn't we?

The word "hate" is largely taken out of context when discussed like we are now. A hate crime, I hate you, you hate me, I hate it, I hate brussel sprouts. Hate, hate hate hate hate hate . I hate drug dealers, disrespect, pain, child molestors, rapists and the price of gas. I hate not having any money.

If you hate Japanese people, ALL Japanese people for the acts committed by their ancestors, BUT......you do not attack them physically because it is against the law or for whatever reason, you are showing them respect. That's a start! What if a Japanese cop was about to pull you out of a burning car, would you refuse his help? I think not so you actually are just venting frustration that your relatives or friends were killed by war. Hell, hate war! It is possible to hate war and be good at it. Audie Murphy hated war, he was pretty good at it. Sgt Alvin York dispised war, he was pretty good at it too. I believe he even said something about how he didn't hate "them German fellaws" , he just knew the fastest way to end the war was to win the war.

Do you hate Germans?

If you are from the south, do you hate northern folks? Visa Versa!

Maybe my way of explaining this lacked the elegance of my friend Gunny"s magic pen and unique insight, however I am curious to see how you will answer.

You usually make your points quite well.

Don't you just hate (no pun intended) it when someone talks logical like you and Gunny? I know you are quite right in you explanation and scenarios, and that would be the perfect situation if it could be instilled into a person. But at this late date in life, I think the old adage "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" come to mind. I never gave the civil war much thought outside the history of it. Most of my friends live up north.
I realize you can't buy anything that doesn't have components made in a foreign country, but I sure do try to buy items that has less foreign components. And if the label is readable that says Made In (whatever country) other than the USA, it doesn't come in my house. I know it comes from a foreign country, but I sure don't have to read it. One of my 5 kids drives foreign named automobiles and about 10 years after she left home, I did allow her to bring it on my property and not park it on the side of the road when she came. If she spends the weekend, I cover it with a tarpaulin to keep from looking at it. I've got it real bad, because when I buy a new car and have to ask what the cid is and he/she can't answer, I tell them to go pee up a rope because I can't talk that foreign crap and go somewhere that speaks English and can say what the cid is. I haven't did the car I have now, but I have taken the dash out of new cars and used a marks-a-lot to black out whatever foreign numbers that are on the odometer. I think this small explanation shows how I feel. And this isn't really even the beginning of it.
No Emmett, I don't even want to change the way I think at this stage of life.