Navy Crews Found at Fault for Collisions

[Weatherman2020]

When there is a collision at sea the crew are ALWAYS to blame. There is hundreds of years of procedure that has been developed to prevent those collisions. Violate procedure (human decisions and volition) and disasters occur.

It ain't rocket science.

It IS rocket science for a whole bunch of green kids. -----do not mock them------they were my children when I was in the navy----
Innocent kids with far too much on their little innocent baby shoulders

Every person on the Bridge is allowed to challenge an order once. Everyone kept silent as the ships were rammed and sailors died.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Not enough crew to properly man the ships.

Just read a lengthy article in Military.com about the findings and recommendations to correct. One item was lack of taking for responsibility while on duty. As stated, no physical lookouts due to shortage of crew.

Really no excuse for any of the collisions. The ships have outstanding radar and sonar systems. Computers should've set off alarms of possible closing of another vessel.

I'm wondering if we are also seeing a society of nobody being ready to take responsibility. "It's not my job to do that." Or fear of what a wrong decision might bring.

Which displays how badly things were allowed to erode in the Navy. The person who "has the con" is supposed to announce it on the Bridge so everyone knows who is in charge and they know which voice to listen to. When that person hands off the con the new person announces they have the con. I would be interested to know when this simple age old process vanished.

 

[harmonica]

Always the fault of the sailors/soldiers. Cannot offend those contractors. Sickening.

Do tell us how contractors can be blamed.

When they sc*ew up construction, systems manufacture, and/or maintenance.

have you ever been on ships? a naval ship?
I've done guard duty on naval bases and have been on 4 ships
at the time of the ''accidents'', the sailors were probably slacking/tired/not paying attention/bored/etc
..the radars for tiny little fishing boats can tell you if tiny little fish are near.
there are boat/ship alert systems that tell you if a boat/ship is near
...these ships have more than one , high tech radar/alert system
and then they have lookouts

in the WW2 1st Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, TWO FLEETS steamed right into each other's path --NO lights on the ships, very old radar on SOME ships, not all...some ships passed within feet of each other--but no collisions
the captains handled their ships--avoiding MANY ships--,well and the lookouts were on their toes

in most airplane disasters, it is human error...the planes also have high tech equipment
these collisions were definitely human error

 

[Peach]

Always the fault of the sailors/soldiers. Cannot offend those contractors. Sickening.

Do tell us how contractors can be blamed.

When they sc*ew up construction, systems manufacture, and/or maintenance.

have you ever been on ships? a naval ship?
I've done guard duty on naval bases and have been on 4 ships
at the time of the ''accidents'', the sailors were probably slacking/tired/not paying attention/bored/etc
..the radars for tiny little fishing boats can tell you if tiny little fish are near.
there are boat/ship alert systems that tell you if a boat/ship is near
...these ships have more than one , high tech radar/alert system
and then they have lookouts

in the WW2 1st Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, TWO FLEETS steamed right into each other's path --NO lights on the ships, very old radar on SOME ships, not all...some ships passed within feet of each other--but no collisions
the captains handled their ships--avoiding MANY ships--,well and the lookouts were on their toes

in most airplane disasters, it is human error...the planes also have high tech equipment
these collisions were definitely human error

Once or twice, yes. I am biased perhaps, my father was career Navy. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[irosie91]

When there is a collision at sea the crew are ALWAYS to blame. There is hundreds of years of procedure that has been developed to prevent those collisions. Violate procedure (human decisions and volition) and disasters occur.

It ain't rocket science.

It IS rocket science for a whole bunch of green kids. -----do not mock them------they were my children when I was in the navy----
Innocent kids with far too much on their little innocent baby shoulders

Every person on the Bridge is allowed to challenge an order once. Everyone kept silent as the ships were rammed and sailors died.

they are kids and afraid. SHEEEESH you have no compassion for those poor farm boys-----

 

[irosie91]

Monday morning quarterbacks

 

[irosie91]

Always the fault of the sailors/soldiers. Cannot offend those contractors. Sickening.

In this case, they are correct. These accidents should never have happened. Fast, mobile ships struck by massive slow commercial ships. The officers were not doing their jobs, and, as a consequence of that, neither were the sailors. And the Pacific Admiral of the 7th Fleet was relieved of duty. Quite justly. That is where the buck stops.

accidents should never happen......you are right

 

[rightwinger]

Received a copy of the report. Its unclassified and released by CNO. Highlights are not mine.
For FITZ, the bridge team did know of the other ship. NO lookouts posted (Starboard or port). The OOD failed to appreciate the danger or take action to prevent the collision. No call to CO. No attempt to make radio contact. No dissent from any watchstander. CIC failed to back them up. In findings, it states the FITZ bridge t...eam had unsatisfactory knowledge of the rules of the road and were not aware of basic radar fundamentals. Failed to realize in a traffic separation scheme. Did not use AIS for them or other ships. Watchstanders realized problems and errors but did not speak up.
For McCAIN, failed to follow rules of the road. Set special sea and anchor detail when already in TSS. No loss of steering: a misunderstanding on who had helm control resulted in no one having helm control. They also accidentally split throttles resulting in twisting the ship :
View attachment 158118
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It only takes one Sailor to scream .......SHIP!

 

[rightwinger]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Inept crew

 

[irosie91]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Inept crew

cynic

 

[Weatherman2020]

When there is a collision at sea the crew are ALWAYS to blame. There is hundreds of years of procedure that has been developed to prevent those collisions. Violate procedure (human decisions and volition) and disasters occur.

It ain't rocket science.

It IS rocket science for a whole bunch of green kids. -----do not mock them------they were my children when I was in the navy----
Innocent kids with far too much on their little innocent baby shoulders

Every person on the Bridge is allowed to challenge an order once. Everyone kept silent as the ships were rammed and sailors died.

they are kids and afraid. SHEEEESH you have no compassion for those poor farm boys-----

Dereliction of duty to not speak up when you are allowed to and let your shipmates get killed.

No where in the report does it say they were afraid to speak up, and it would. Captains have already been canned. The report is very damning to the Navy, there is no PC glossing over.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Every aviation and naval accident is extensively reviewed in order to determine what went wrong so that corrections can be made to prevent future accidents.

What occurred was so preventable on so many levels it is pathetic.

 

[Mr Natural]

How the **** do you run into a ship in the middle of the ocean?

The ocean is huge. Ships are huge and they don't move all that fast.

Plus, we have this new fangled invention called RADAR!

 

[martybegan]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Every aviation and naval accident is extensively reviewed in order to determine what went wrong so that corrections can be made to prevent future accidents.

What occurred was so preventable on so many levels it is pathetic.

As an Engineer I always find accident forensics fascinating, mostly because few realize how many things have to go wrong in a chain of events for the worst to happen. Modern systems have all sorts of redundancies, that allow an failure chain to be stopped multiple times before something "bad" happens.

People make mistakes, but accidents in some instances don't absolve people of responsibility.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Every aviation and naval accident is extensively reviewed in order to determine what went wrong so that corrections can be made to prevent future accidents.

What occurred was so preventable on so many levels it is pathetic.

As an Engineer I always find accident forensics fascinating, mostly because few realize how many things have to go wrong in a chain of events for the worst to happen. Modern systems have all sorts of redundancies, that allow an failure chain to be stopped multiple times before something "bad" happens.

People make mistakes, but accidents in some instances don't absolve people of responsibility.

I got to be on the accident team for a major aerospace company. Fascinating on one hand, disconcerting on what never made the news. In the few years I did that it always came down to some tech who didn’t do what they were supposed to do.

 

[martybegan]

Monday morning quarterbacks

Every aviation and naval accident is extensively reviewed in order to determine what went wrong so that corrections can be made to prevent future accidents.

What occurred was so preventable on so many levels it is pathetic.

As an Engineer I always find accident forensics fascinating, mostly because few realize how many things have to go wrong in a chain of events for the worst to happen. Modern systems have all sorts of redundancies, that allow an failure chain to be stopped multiple times before something "bad" happens.

People make mistakes, but accidents in some instances don't absolve people of responsibility.

I got to be on the accident team for a major aerospace company. Fascinating on one hand, disconcerting on what never made the news. In the few years I did that it always came down to some tech who didn’t do what they were supposed to do.

I handle accident investigations at my Construction Site as the Resident Engineer, smaller scale, but same principles. it's always a cascade of failures that leads to an incident, not just one event.

 

[Mr Natural]

Let's blame Obama!

He did, after all, decimate our military.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Let's blame Obama!

He did, after all, decimate our military.

He was CIC for the last 8 years. If Trump fails to initiate improvements it’s on his neck too.

 

[Moonglow]

I was in the army during Reagan, I've seen guys get drunk and take off in an Abrams tank, he did manage to total the tank..

 

[Weatherman2020]

How the **** do you run into a ship in the middle of the ocean?

The ocean is huge. Ships are huge and they don't move all that fast.

Plus, we have this new fangled invention called RADAR!

Actually the ocean is pretty crowded in some areas. See the chart I posted. Still no excuse though.

Navy Crews Found at Fault for Collisions