Nationalization and debt forgiveness.

the other mike

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2019
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Secret City under Denver Airport
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
both parties are complicit, but we really have a temporary situation whereby corporations that we really need for jobs and natl security like airlines, airline maftrs, cars, oil, etc will crash without a cash infusion. But GIVEN THE PROFITS THEY WERE MAKING TWO MONTHS AGO …. can't they just be loans?
 
From the article.
The only solution for the economy is debt forgiveness for the ordinary people and nationalization for the companies. Trump indicated that aid might be given in the form of an equity stake, and later sell the government’s stake for a profit in a privatization when things return to normal. This would be a partial nationalization. Much better to go whole hog as it allows a cure for concentration and deregulation.

The pandemic has made it clear that a society of self-seeking individuals is not a society. A society is a social system. A successful social system is one that can support its members. Once a self-sustaining social system exists, then there is a basis for people to branch out on their own. But without a sustainable social system, there can be nothing.

To create a sustainable society in the United States requires the abandonment of dogmatic ways of thinking. Old ideologies are in the way. We and our leaders must think creatively if we are to successfully deal with the health and economic crisis.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
Seizure and operation by a government made up of folks whose skill levels preclude them from private sector employment. Hell of a dumbass notion.
Let them go under, their remnants purchased and operated by better able men, be it a pizza franchise, bank corporation, or airline.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
both parties are complicit, but we really have a temporary situation whereby corporations that we really need for jobs and natl security like airlines, airline maftrs, cars, oil, etc will crash without a cash infusion. But GIVEN THE PROFITS THEY WERE MAKING TWO MONTHS AGO …. can't they just be loans?
if i'm not mistaken a lot of the money they will be getting are low interest loans .
 
From the article.
The only solution for the economy is debt forgiveness for the ordinary people and nationalization for the companies. Trump indicated that aid might be given in the form of an equity stake, and later sell the government’s stake for a profit in a privatization when things return to normal. This would be a partial nationalization. Much better to go whole hog as it allows a cure for concentration and deregulation.

The pandemic has made it clear that a society of self-seeking individuals is not a society. A society is a social system. A successful social system is one that can support its members. Once a self-sustaining social system exists, then there is a basis for people to branch out on their own. But without a sustainable social system, there can be nothing.

To create a sustainable society in the United States requires the abandonment of dogmatic ways of thinking. Old ideologies are in the way. We and our leaders must think creatively if we are to successfully deal with the health and economic crisis.
But if you go full nationalization, you wipe out the shareholders, and that will wipe out 401ks too. That was Obama's problem. I would wholeheartedly agree that any bailout for shareholders be in loans, not debt foregiveness.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
both parties are complicit, but we really have a temporary situation whereby corporations that we really need for jobs and natl security like airlines, airline maftrs, cars, oil, etc will crash without a cash infusion. But GIVEN THE PROFITS THEY WERE MAKING TWO MONTHS AGO …. can't they just be loans?
if i'm not mistaken a lot of the money they will be getting are low interest loans .
Maybe. but the "loans" may be just executive pay until the recipients can go out of biz
 
I thought Karl Marx died a long time ago.

Now these clowns want private companies to be run like the Post Office. Speaking of "bailout"
 
There should be nationwide strikes by essential workers all across the nation. This would force the crooks in DC to pay attention to the 90%. A loan jubilee should be demanded for all loans including college, home, and auto. Medicare for all should be immediately implemented.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
both parties are complicit, but we really have a temporary situation whereby corporations that we really need for jobs and natl security like airlines, airline maftrs, cars, oil, etc will crash without a cash infusion. But GIVEN THE PROFITS THEY WERE MAKING TWO MONTHS AGO …. can't they just be loans?
if i'm not mistaken a lot of the money they will be getting are low interest loans .
Maybe. but the "loans" may be just executive pay until the recipients can go out of biz
i'm sure their will be some of the usual bull when it comes to gov money ,but we have a political outsider as POTUS and i think that they are going to try to insure the money goes where its supposed to go . thats one of the biggest reasons the establishment hates him.
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members.


They'd have no problems if they'd never bought back a share?
What about small businesses that never bought back a share, are they all fine?

Bailouts of those who caused their problems.....

Pretty sure that airlines didn't cause the Wuhan virus.
 
From the article.
The only solution for the economy is debt forgiveness for the ordinary people and nationalization for the companies. Trump indicated that aid might be given in the form of an equity stake, and later sell the government’s stake for a profit in a privatization when things return to normal. This would be a partial nationalization. Much better to go whole hog as it allows a cure for concentration and deregulation.

The pandemic has made it clear that a society of self-seeking individuals is not a society. A society is a social system. A successful social system is one that can support its members. Once a self-sustaining social system exists, then there is a basis for people to branch out on their own. But without a sustainable social system, there can be nothing.

To create a sustainable society in the United States requires the abandonment of dogmatic ways of thinking. Old ideologies are in the way. We and our leaders must think creatively if we are to successfully deal with the health and economic crisis.

The only solution for the economy is debt forgiveness for the ordinary people

Paul is funny. Shame about his mad cow disease...…...
 
There should be nationwide strikes by essential workers all across the nation. This would force the crooks in DC to pay attention to the 90%. A loan jubilee should be demanded for all loans including college, home, and auto. Medicare for all should be immediately implemented.

A loan jubilee should be demanded for all loans including college, home, and auto.

Exactly!!!

But before we do......could you lend me $100,000?

Pay you back soon, promise!!!
 
Ya know what small businesses are being offered? loans that covers almost nothing but two months of employee wages. If 75% of it goes for wages...an the rest only for rent and utilities (not a chance it will stretch that far) it will be forgiven,'What about operating expenses? Ingredients...existing debt?

Nuffin.

All that does is shift the accounting around so that unemployment gets paid out of a different "bucket"
 
There should be nationwide strikes by essential workers all across the nation. This would force the crooks in DC to pay attention to the 90%. A loan jubilee should be demanded for all loans including college, home, and auto. Medicare for all should be immediately implemented.

A loan jubilee should be demanded for all loans including college, home, and auto.

Exactly!!!

But before we do......could you lend me $100,000?

Pay you back soon, promise!!!
The Fed and our government are very good at bailing out the rich, why not the rest of us?
 
Big scary words to some.

The US airline companies have bankrupted themselves by buying back their stock in an enrichment scheme for CEOs and board members. With the impact of the virus on their revenues, Congress is handing them a $50 billion bailout. Instead of being bailed out they should be nationalized.

In the health and economic crisis in which we find ourselves, the government is going to need all the public trust it can get. Bailouts of those who caused their problems and ours won’t meet the fairness test.

As I previously wrote, nationalization is a four-letter word for many, but it actually offers a chance to correct for the decades of deregulation and concentration and thereby restore competition to the economy. Nationalized banks too-big-to-fail, for example, can later be broken up and the pieces sold back into private hands. Commercial banks can again be separated from investment banks, and concentrated financial power can be broken.

Now that we know that markets are not self-regulating, we can restore sensible financial regulation and require banks to lend for productive purposes, not for financializing and leveraging existing assets. The US financial system has not served the productive side of the US economy for a long time.

While ordinary heavily indebted Americans are losing their jobs right and left as businesses close, shopping center lobbyists are asking for a $1 trillion guarantee. The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion.

(continued)
You want to know what would shock me? If for once, the government showed that the people of this country mattered-- -- -- were "to big to fail," and made all the credit card companies and banks forgive all our debt. Just ONCE let THEM take it on the chin for extending loans and credit blindly taking risks in the hopes of massive returns.
We wouldn't get debt forgiven. We'd have to discharge it in bankruptcy. But I am hopeful that if the dems can regain power, they'll allow students to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. That will end the lenders using student loans as a golden goose. It'll make it harder for students to get loans, but I'm not sure that is a horrible thing. We could expand public service and allow them a stipend for an agreement to teach and work in healthcare in hard to serve places.
 

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