National Death by Lethal Prescription Legislation

[Tinktink]

There is a reason they call it terminal. The person will die. Not being given the choice of not dying, they should be given the choice to die as they wish. Either fighting it to the end, or ending it without a fight. And if they chose the latter, that ending should come peacefully like a overdose of morphine or something, if they wish it too.

And I think one person mentioned the pain factor. Stating that with modern medicine the pain isn't a factor. When in reality it is. Some pain is so intense that not even the non lethal dose of morphine helps it completely. Thus leaving one to suffer to the end.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dude self-delivery sounds like what happens to a pizza you pick up yourself, why not jsut call it suicide?

Same reason you so seldom hear the pro-choice crowd using the word "abortion". It sounds better behind euphemisms.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A right to end his life? He already has the ability. I mean, what are we going to do? Arrest him for committing suicide? This isn't about the "right to die". It's about the right to have someone else kill you. And frankly, I see no good in polluting society and those around you with such noxious ideas.

I also have precious little patience with definitive statements about "should" and "shouldn't". They mean nothing, and contribute nothing.

You are aware, I assume, that committing suicide IS illegal.

No, ATTEMPTING suicide is illegal. They can't do anything to you if you succeed at it.

You are right - this is about the right to have someone else kill you (painlessly). We all have the ABILITY to kill ourselves, but in generally painful or undesirable ways. Few of us have the ability to kill ourselves painlessly.

Wrong. Pills are painless, if done right. Carbon monoxide is painless, I'm told. It can be done, if you want to badly enough. I can't imagine why having someone else do it makes the method any less painful.

If I can kill myself any time I want, why shouldn't I be able to accomplish the same result in a painless manner?

Same question as above. How does having someone else do it make it less painful than doing it yourself?

Another thing this is all about is playing God. The anti-assisted suicide folks want to play God with other people's lives (or, more appropriately, deaths). Just another example of the old, "If I don't want it (assisted suicide), you can't have it." What gives anyone the right to tell me I cannot end my own life in a painless manner, if I so choose?

I love it. You advocate taking someone else's life, through a belief that you're doing what's best for them, and WE are the ones playing God?

We don't have any right to tell YOU you can't end YOUR life. Knock yourself out . . . so to speak. We DO have the right to tell you that you can't end someone else's life. They're just going to have to step up themselves.

 

[Montrovant]

For those who feel it is wrong to kill someone else whether or not they want to die (and I'm not trying to say that's an invalid opinion), how do you feel about things like prescribing drugs to someone so they can kill themselves? Not administering them, just prescribing them.

 

[Father Time]

Dude self-delivery sounds like what happens to a pizza you pick up yourself, why not jsut call it suicide?

Same reason you so seldom hear the pro-choice crowd using the word "abortion". It sounds better behind euphemisms.

EVERYTHING sounds better behind euphemisms that's kind of the point.

Also the reason why you hear torture as enhanced interrogation techniques and a whole host of religious things being financed with public funds as 'faith based initiatives' the politicians apparently too afraid to call them religious.

 

[Derek_Plumber]

Same reason you so seldom hear the pro-choice crowd using the word "abortion". It sounds better behind euphemisms.

I guess I have to repeat this again. When you are terminally ill, religion and politics go out the window. A lot of Catholics have practiced self delivery.

Wait until you have been diagnosed with cancer, your thinking about self delivery will change quickly.

"Suicide" is a term that relates to mental illness. "Self delivery" relates to rational thought about ending one's life because of a terminal illness.

Do these morons read, or do they just know it all?

 

[Tinktink]

Wrong. Pills are painless, if done right. Carbon monoxide is painless, I'm told. It can be done, if you want to badly enough. I can't imagine why having someone else do it makes the method any less painful.

The key is if they are done right. If they aren't, it is extemely painful and not 100 percent effective in ending your life. Carbon monoxide don't know much about that, but I would guess if someone found you before you died and sent you the hospital, the recovery from it would be painful as any come back from gas is.

Many people need assisted suicide for varying reasons. No one truly wants to die alone, and even though you do it to yourself asking someone to be there with you at the time of your passing, or even telling them your plans and preceding to follow through with them... puts them at risk for criminal prosecution, who would want to do that to loved one? To some folks self inflicted suicide is against their relgion and they can't their lives by their own actions. No matter how painful their deaths are. People who get terminally ill don't have the choice to live. They should have the choice on how they seek to go.

 

[Cecilie1200]

For those who feel it is wrong to kill someone else whether or not they want to die (and I'm not trying to say that's an invalid opinion), how do you feel about things like prescribing drugs to someone so they can kill themselves? Not administering them, just prescribing them.

How do I feel about giving someone a loaded gun to shoot themselves? Not shooting them myself, just sticking the bullets in the chamber, cocking it, and handing it over.

How do you THINK I feel about it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dude self-delivery sounds like what happens to a pizza you pick up yourself, why not jsut call it suicide?

Same reason you so seldom hear the pro-choice crowd using the word "abortion". It sounds better behind euphemisms.

EVERYTHING sounds better behind euphemisms that's kind of the point.

Also the reason why you hear torture as enhanced interrogation techniques and a whole host of religious things being financed with public funds as 'faith based initiatives' the politicians apparently too afraid to call them religious.

Spare me the attempt to shoehorn your favorite squawking points into every conversation, no matter how inappropriate or irrelevant.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Same reason you so seldom hear the pro-choice crowd using the word "abortion". It sounds better behind euphemisms.

I guess I have to repeat this again. When you are terminally ill, religion and politics go out the window. A lot of Catholics have practiced self delivery.

Wait until you have been diagnosed with cancer, your thinking about self delivery will change quickly.

"Suicide" is a term that relates to mental illness. "Self delivery" relates to rational thought about ending one's life because of a terminal illness.

Do these morons read, or do they just know it all?

No, you really do not have to tell us yet again that everyone you know or know of has the same relative - that is to say, non-existent - moral standards you do. It depressed me the first time. Please just understand that that doesn't in any way represent the whole of humanity, and maybe try to get out and meet some different kinds of people.

Suicide - 1 a: the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind (emphasis mine)

Interesting. So where did you get the idea that it only applied to crazy people? Are we supposed to let you redefine the language for us now to suit your own agenda, Noah Webster?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wrong. Pills are painless, if done right. Carbon monoxide is painless, I'm told. It can be done, if you want to badly enough. I can't imagine why having someone else do it makes the method any less painful.

The key is if they are done right. If they aren't, it is extemely painful and not 100 percent effective in ending your life. Carbon monoxide don't know much about that, but I would guess if someone found you before you died and sent you the hospital, the recovery from it would be painful as any come back from gas is.

I'm still waiting to hear how having someone else do it makes a method more or less painful, and I guess now I'm waiting to hear how it makes it more or less foolproof and more or less likely to be botched and require the same painful recovery. Maybe it's just that you figure if a third party screws it up, they'll just keep trying until they get it right? Not sure how that's an improvement or a comfort, though.

Many people need assisted suicide for varying reasons. No one truly wants to die alone,

Dude, everyone dies alone. Just because someone watches you do it, or even kills you, you're still doing it on your own.

and even though you do it to yourself asking someone to be there with you at the time of your passing, or even telling them your plans and preceding to follow through with them... puts them at risk for criminal prosecution, who would want to do that to loved one?

As it bloody well should, and while we're discussing the concept of "why would you want to do that to a loved one?", why would you want to put someone you love - who presumably loves you - in the position of having to kill you? What an incredibly selfish request to make. Hell, putting a beloved pet to sleep traumatizes people, and you want to ask them to do it to a family member?

To some folks self inflicted suicide is against their relgion and they can't their lives by their own actions. No matter how painful their deaths are. People who get terminally ill don't have the choice to live. They should have the choice on how they seek to go.

Oh, because you really think God is that easily fooled? "Oh, okay, your finger didn't actually pull the trigger, you just asked someone else to do it, so I guess you're in the clear." This is God and the Final Judgement we're talking about here, not the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. There are no legal loopholes or technicalities.

There's that "should have" again. WHY "should" they? To me, this is just another way we try to foster the illusion that we're really in control. I also find it pathetic, FYI, that people have come to value their lives so little, and view them as nothing more than a vacation, to be ended as soon as it starts raining and it's no fun anymore.

 

[Montrovant]

Cecilie, your comment in the last post makes it seem as though you think suicide is a relatively recent problem, or that it's much more common now than in the past.

The reason I asked earlier about not actually performing the act was to see if people had a different opinion about suicide than assisted suicide; to see if someone else performing the actual act was an issue. I don't know you so couldn't have a clue what you'd think about it before you respond. You obviously think it's bad either way, but unless you are happy doing just what you accuse Derek of and assume everyone else thinks like you or has your moral standards, how would I know that? The tone of your reply sounds as though you think I should.

 

[Derek_Plumber]

EVERYTHING sounds better behind euphemisms that's kind of the point.

If you want to argue words and their definitions you are in the wrong thread. Go join the gun people who are arguing about the Second Amendment!

Call it "assisted suicide" or "self delivery" these people are terminally ill and want to die peacefully. Take your euphemisms and shove them up your ass!

 

[Derek_Plumber]

Some of the people in this thread need to read your compassionate and well-considered words again:

There is a reason they call it terminal. The person will die. Not being given the choice of not dying, they should be given the choice to die as they wish. Either fighting it to the end, or ending it without a fight. And if they chose the latter, that ending should come peacefully like a overdose of morphine or something, if they wish it too.

And I think one person mentioned the pain factor. Stating that with modern medicine the pain isn't a factor. When in reality it is. Some pain is so intense that not even the non lethal dose of morphine helps it completely. Thus leaving one to suffer to the end.

 

[xotoxi]

EVERYTHING sounds better behind euphemisms that's kind of the point.

If you want to argue words and their definitions you are in the wrong thread. Go join the gun people who are arguing about the Second Amendment!

Call it "assisted suicide" or "self delivery" these people are terminally ill and want to die peacefully. Take your euphemisms and shove them up your ass!

Joe - you do realize that in order for a patient to obtain the medications that are being discussed would require a prescription written by one of those heartless, uncompassionate, greedy doctors which you loathe so passionately.

 

[Gunny]

if you are in the hospital, you can press a button and administer your own pain relief when needed, (this is how it was on a surgery I had to have, and i hit that morphine button as often as i could) and you can refuse being fed by a tube or have a living will to do such if you are incapacitated so that you can be left to die naturally and not be kept alive. It's a matter of days or a few weeks and you are dead anyway.

Being kept alive is a seperate issue from committing suicide because there is nothing they can do to keep you alive.

If you are to the point of dying, it is just a few weeks AT MOST before you die

You missed the point that pain meds don't get rid of all pain, and often stop working after prolonged use. But when you are "doped" up enough, you are unable to communicate often, so even if the pain is intense you will not be able to let anyone know. I don't remember the name of that effect, but I guess I have known too many pain drug addicts. They will still hurt, really bad, but due to their addiction their mind will ignore that pain just so they don't get switched to a different drug. There are many other factors, pain meds for life just isn't a viable option.

Pain meds for LIFE? what are you talking about Kitten? I thought this was about people who are dying...less than a couple of months to live, that want to commit suicide, instead of waiting out the 2 months with meds....

There is no LIFE period of taking pain killers, there is a couple of months before one dies....Doctors are required to give those dying, absolute pain relief or enough to make them comfortable.

We are not talking about someone having a doctor help them kill themselves because they have constant pain and just don't want to live with that pain and want to kill themselves via a doctor because of it?

Doctors take an OATH to do no harm, to kill NO ONE intentionally and personally, I don't EVER want to see that oath changed....giving Doctors permission to KILL another human being is unacceptable in my book....

If you want to OFF yourself, DO IT, but don't ask someone else to help kill you.....man up and do it yourself, don't make someone else, a killer.

care

Couldn't have been put much better than that.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The reason this has become an issue in the first place is because medical science is now capable of keeping people alive in more cases than it should. Now we are able to see the effects of an artificially prolonged life span, and people are also starting to care about suffering more since death is becoming a smaller issue.

That, and too many people having watched too many episodes of "E.R." thinking that every problem can be solved in an hour.

 

[Derek_Plumber]

Joe - you do realize that in order for a patient to obtain the medications that are being discussed would require a prescription written by one of those heartless, uncompassionate, greedy doctors which you loathe so passionately.

Actually we don't, we have nurse practitioners who can write the prescription easily, and without a lot of bowing and hosannas.

 

[Derek_Plumber]

Doctors take an OATH to do no harm, to kill NO ONE intentionally and personally, I don't EVER want to see that oath changed....giving Doctors permission to KILL another human being is unacceptable in my book....

If you want to OFF yourself, DO IT, but don't ask someone else to help kill you.....man up and do it yourself, don't make someone else, a killer.

Gunny, what am I going to do with you? The last time I pissed you off you took away all my merit badges, or rep things, or whatever. I have witnessed a self delivery, which I don't believe any one else in this thead has.

When a person learns they are terminally ill, it does not take long to realize "How do I get out of this with the least possible pain?" Politics, and religion go right out the window.

Lets say one day you woke up with indigestion, and went to the doctor to learn that you had stage 4 pancreatic cancer http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,2015,0.ht. It is a slow, agonizing death. You will change your views over night, and become a supporter of Euthanasia. By the way you don't need a doctor to self deliver, a qualified guide will do. Of course in Oregon and Washington State they make you use doctors.

Let's get over this "sainted physician" routine, since the HMOs came to town doctors are businessmen. Just as lawyers chase ambulances, doctors are looking for fat insurance policies. Doctors, have no ethics anymore, they just do what the SUITS at the medical corporations tell them to do. This is part of the reason the World Health Organization reports that the quality of health care in the United States is ranked 37 in the world! 37 in the world! Doctors sold out patients years ago. Now you, and I, and all of us, are on our own.

 

[Tinktink]

You missed the point that pain meds don't get rid of all pain, and often stop working after prolonged use. But when you are "doped" up enough, you are unable to communicate often, so even if the pain is intense you will not be able to let anyone know. I don't remember the name of that effect, but I guess I have known too many pain drug addicts. They will still hurt, really bad, but due to their addiction their mind will ignore that pain just so they don't get switched to a different drug. There are many other factors, pain meds for life just isn't a viable option.

Pain meds for LIFE? what are you talking about Kitten? I thought this was about people who are dying...less than a couple of months to live, that want to commit suicide, instead of waiting out the 2 months with meds....

There is no LIFE period of taking pain killers, there is a couple of months before one dies....Doctors are required to give those dying, absolute pain relief or enough to make them comfortable.

We are not talking about someone having a doctor help them kill themselves because they have constant pain and just don't want to live with that pain and want to kill themselves via a doctor because of it?

Doctors take an OATH to do no harm, to kill NO ONE intentionally and personally, I don't EVER want to see that oath changed....giving Doctors permission to KILL another human being is unacceptable in my book....

If you want to OFF yourself, DO IT, but don't ask someone else to help kill you.....man up and do it yourself, don't make someone else, a killer.

care

Couldn't have been put much better than that.

They take a oath to do no harm. How much pain does someone suffer in terminal illness, you see no harm there? How could a doctor with any heart stand by and watch someone screaming in agony, knowing that there is no saving that person, because despite the agony they will still die. NO HARM? HUH?