Naomi Wolf: Mandatory Vaccine Passport Could Lead To The End Of Human Liberty In The West

[Ray From Cleveland]

There’s you playing politics again. Nobody is claiming they are 100% effective.

Then why do people debate me when I point that out? Nothing is 100% effective, including washing your hands, sanitizing every surface in your house after dropping the grocery bags on the kitchen counter, sanitizing your hands everywhere you go outside your house. Nothing.

Now please explain how this is political in any way.

 

[Slade3200]

There’s you playing politics again. Nobody is claiming they are 100% effective.

Then why do people debate me when I point that out? Nothing is 100% effective, including washing your hands, sanitizing every surface in your house after dropping the grocery bags on the kitchen counter, sanitizing your hands everywhere you go outside your house. Nothing.

Now please explain how this is political in any way.

It’s political because you practice the mitigation measures that CDC and doctors recommend because you know they are the responsible thing to do but your political team has this running fight against the seriousness of COVID, against masks, against the vaccine. They spread misinformation and sew doubt about the safety recommendations trying to paint them as useless commie power grabs. You repeat those sentiments and talking points which is why I say you play politics

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It’s political because you practice the mitigation measures that CDC and doctors recommend because you know they are the responsible thing to do but your political team has this running fight against the seriousness of COVID, against masks, against the vaccine. They spread misinformation and sew doubt about the safety recommendations trying to paint them as useless commie power grabs. You repeat those sentiments and talking points which is why I say you play politics

I see, so what you're saying is the CDC is in fact political; something we on the right have been saying all along? All I said is that masks were no guarantee, and in fact some believe virtually useless in this pandemic.

Don't tell me what "they" did, tell me what I did that was political.

 

[Slade3200]

It’s political because you practice the mitigation measures that CDC and doctors recommend because you know they are the responsible thing to do but your political team has this running fight against the seriousness of COVID, against masks, against the vaccine. They spread misinformation and sew doubt about the safety recommendations trying to paint them as useless commie power grabs. You repeat those sentiments and talking points which is why I say you play politics

I see, so what you're saying is the CDC is in fact political; something we on the right have been saying all along? All I said is that masks were no guarantee, and in fact some believe virtually useless in this pandemic.

Don't tell me what "they" did, tell me what I did that was political.

I've been telling you what you're saying that's political. You are contradicting your own practices to push along the narratives that "They" your political "team" is pushing. Nobody in this conversation is saying that masks are 100% effective. You are playing games of absolutes to push the political angle. You are talking about hoses going through chain link fences to push the political angle. You are throwing shade on the vaccine to push your political angle. You are bringing up immigration in a discussion about masks and vaccine effectiveness to push your political angle... Want more??

 

[krichton]

There are plenty I hear mocking people who wear masks and spreading false analogies like spraying water through a chain fence. There is an aggressive attack campaign against Fauci, and a steady stream of anti vaccers who still claim that COVID is no different than the flu. Bunch of tards

Fauci should be attacked. In any other country, he'd be arrested and imprisoned for the remainder of his life or executed. Now that the cat is out of the bag, it's learned that he was instrumental in funneling US tax dollars to the Wuhan lab. There is a video out there of Fauci in 2017 saying that President Trump will face a pandemic never seen before by any American alive. How did he know this? He didn't say "may" "could" or "might", he said "will, as in it's definitely going to happen.

Fauci is the highest paid government bureaucrat in the US. It's treasonous that he knew all about this and said or did nothing to help prevent it, or so that our health organizations had time to prepare. Plus early on when he did know what was going on in that lab, he publicly stated that there was no way this virus came from that institution. Now that people are breathing down his neck, he's changing his story. It was no secret that this lab has been cited repeatedly for dangerous practices in the past.

Now, those people may be tards in your opinion, but they are also Americans with the right to feel or believe what they want. Why is it a false analogy when a reputable virologist makes a statement like that chain link fence but people who say masks will be very helpful not false? When you look at the results in places like New York, New Jersey, California, it seems those experts that claim masks are not helping any have a pretty compelling argument.

This is nothing but more conspiracy theory FAKE NEWS bullshit, as usual. Not only has there been no evidence to support the fauci, covid claims, but it's already been proven that covid was not created in a lab.

No evidence Fauci funded 'creation' of COVID-19

Editor’s note, May 17, 2021: When this fact-check was first published in February 2021, PolitiFact’s sources included re

www.politifact.com

How do you prove something when the source is hiding all the needed information? Why did they close down all domestic flights in Wuhan but allowed international travel? Is it just dumb luck that the virus originated where their top virology lab was, and that they tested over 80,000 wild animals, and found no makeup in any of them that resembled the structure of covid 19?

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know

Nature examines arguments that the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab in China, and the science behind them.

www.nature.com

Who's the "source?" Whos hiding it, and what exactly is it? This is typical conspiracy theory ranting and it's never supported by any shred of evidence. Even the article you posted had very reasonable answers to all the lab leak conspiracy theories and the conclusion was, there is no evidence supporting any of it. This is what the right is great at. They create hysteria with one fake news story after another. Let's look at a random list of them below.

1. 5G microchips in vaccine to track you
2. Vaccine is meant to depopulate the planet
3. Face masks don't work
4. Covid is just like the flu
5. The vaccine will damage your lungs in 4-14 months
6. Fauci funded covid19 and then released it on the world
7. The vaccines are magnetizing people
8. The vaccine makes you more susceptible to variants than unvaccinated
9. Face masks cause CO2 poisoning
10. Masks deprive you of oxygen and kills your immune system
11. Covid only accounts for 10% of actual number dead
12. Bill Gates something something

How do you decide which bullshit conspiracy to believe in, or do you all just believe in them all to make it easier on yourself?

 

[krichton]

The virus doesn't travel through the air on it's own. It MUST travel in droplets, which are larger and can be trapped by N95s. This is an established medical fact. Here's an article that explains everything and more so you'll stop spewing misinformation.

It's not misinformation. Trust me, my sister works at a hospital and uses them. She and everybody else who uses them knows the are not 100% guaranteed effective.

Who exactly made that claim? You said masks don't work, I said they do, and it's supported in the factcheck i posted. That's the bottomline.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who exactly made that claim? You said masks don't work, I said they do, and it's supported in the factcheck i posted. That's the bottomline.

If I said masks don't work, why do I still wear them in public? There is no mask mandate here any longer.

What I said is that other experts claimed they don't work. What I said is nothing is 100% foolproof including masks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

ho's the "source?" Whos hiding it, and what exactly is it? This is typical conspiracy theory ranting and it's never supported by any shred of evidence. Even the article you posted had very reasonable answers to all the lab leak conspiracy theories and the conclusion was, there is no evidence supporting any of it. This is what the right is great at. They create hysteria with one fake news story after another. Let's look at a random list of them below.

And so you really believe that this virus, out of all the places in a huge country like China, just happened to come from a city where their top virology lab was? Pure coincidence, huh? And if that happened, why are the Chinese being so uncooperative? If it's not their fault and the lab had nothing to do with it, they would be surrendering records and opening the door to the lab for everybody to see.

Okay, so if you don't want to even consider the possibility from my source, how about a Chinese scientist that was actually there and fled China to tell what she knew?

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I've been telling you what you're saying that's political. You are contradicting your own practices to push along the narratives that "They" your political "team" is pushing. Nobody in this conversation is saying that masks are 100% effective. You are playing games of absolutes to push the political angle. You are talking about hoses going through chain link fences to push the political angle. You are throwing shade on the vaccine to push your political angle. You are bringing up immigration in a discussion about masks and vaccine effectiveness to push your political angle... Want more??

If I was being political about it, I wouldn't wear a mask, now would I? I wouldn't be telling people to do what they feel is right, would I? I would be telling people to join me and my millions of fellow Americans to fight these lock downs and masks. I wouldn't have taken the vaccine myself, would I? I would be promoting nobody take the vaccine.

The only person in this conversation that's making this political is you. What you basically said is how dare I present other points of view that goes against your beliefs which just happens to be one of the same of the Democrat party. I shouldn't be presenting both sides of the case. Why......that's irresponsible, isn't it?

 

[Slade3200]

I've been telling you what you're saying that's political. You are contradicting your own practices to push along the narratives that "They" your political "team" is pushing. Nobody in this conversation is saying that masks are 100% effective. You are playing games of absolutes to push the political angle. You are talking about hoses going through chain link fences to push the political angle. You are throwing shade on the vaccine to push your political angle. You are bringing up immigration in a discussion about masks and vaccine effectiveness to push your political angle... Want more??

If I was being political about it, I wouldn't wear a mask, now would I? I wouldn't be telling people to do what they feel is right, would I? I would be telling people to join me and my millions of fellow Americans to fight these lock downs and masks. I wouldn't have taken the vaccine myself, would I? I would be promoting nobody take the vaccine.

The only person in this conversation that's making this political is you. What you basically said is how dare I present other points of view that goes against your beliefs which just happens to be one of the same of the Democrat party. I shouldn't be presenting both sides of the case. Why......that's irresponsible, isn't it?

Which is why I’m saying you are contradicting yourself and play politics. You know what’s right and you express practicing it in one breath and then in the next breath you’re playing the political attack game.

 

[krichton]

Who exactly made that claim? You said masks don't work, I said they do, and it's supported in the factcheck i posted. That's the bottomline.

If I said masks don't work, why do I still wear them in public? There is no mask mandate here any longer.

What I said is that other experts claimed they don't work. What I said is nothing is 100% foolproof including masks.

Who are these "experts?" Produce them. You parroted a long running anti mask argument for why masks don't work. I provided links debunking such a claim. No one was arguing that they were 100%.

ho's the "source?" Whos hiding it, and what exactly is it? This is typical conspiracy theory ranting and it's never supported by any shred of evidence. Even the article you posted had very reasonable answers to all the lab leak conspiracy theories and the conclusion was, there is no evidence supporting any of it. This is what the right is great at. They create hysteria with one fake news story after another. Let's look at a random list of them below.

And so you really believe that this virus, out of all the places in a huge country like China, just happened to come from a city where their top virology lab was? Pure coincidence, huh? And if that happened, why are the Chinese being so uncooperative? If it's not their fault and the lab had nothing to do with it, they would be surrendering records and opening the door to the lab for everybody to see.

Okay, so if you don't want to even consider the possibility from my source, how about a Chinese scientist that was actually there and fled China to tell what she knew?

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

The link you provided to nature.com logically explained the plausibility of why there was a lab there. Why provide a link to a website that disputes your own reasoning?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who are these "experts?" Produce them. You parroted a long running anti mask argument for why masks don't work. I provided links debunking such a claim. No one was arguing that they were 100%.

When did I ever promote an argument that masks don't work? Show me and provide a post number. What I said is that some experts are claiming they don't work. If you want to look at one side of things, it's not surprising. I look at both sides, and that's upsetting to you.

The link you provided to nature.com logically explained the plausibility of why there was a lab there. Why provide a link to a website that disputes your own reasoning?

It was a year ago when the leak from the Wuhan lab was totally discarded. Today, we are finding out more and more about this and the consideration is back in the deck of cards. Logically, it would make total sense that this lab was responsible since that's where the virus originated. My Lord, I just gave you a Chinese virologist who said that's what was taking place there, and she left her country to tell the world. And in my link, it stated they tested over 80,000 animals and can't find this particular covid-19 strain. As the article points out, there is a lot of wildlife in China, however, given how fast this variant spreads, it should be all over the animal kingdom in China.

Gain Of Function research means just that. Manipulate the virus so it will be much more contagious and much more deadly.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Which is why I’m saying you are contradicting yourself and play politics. You know what’s right and you express practicing it in one breath and then in the next breath you’re playing the political attack game.

I don't know where you get that from. What I'm doing is presenting both sides, not just my side.

Do masks work? Some experts claim yes, other experts claim no, and the most famous ones claimed both. First they said no and then they said yes. In five years, we may find out that loyal mask wearing could have saved 100,000 lives. We could also find out that wearing them cost us 100,000 lives. Nobody really knows. What we do know is that states that had strict mask mandates and states that didn't had about the same results, in fact some of those non-mask states had better results. Florida ended their lock down well over a year ago, and all schools were open with no problems. My niece lives there. She said you see very few people with masks on and it's been that way for several months now.

In New York, they forced nursing homes to take known covid infected seniors. It killed dozens or hundreds of seniors. In Florida, Governor DeSantis regulated that no covid senior be allowed to reside in nursing homes. Much like our state, they had an age priority where the elderly and vulnerable were vaccinated first. In commie states, they had a race mandate where minorities were given priority, and even prisoners.

 

[Slade3200]

Which is why I’m saying you are contradicting yourself and play politics. You know what’s right and you express practicing it in one breath and then in the next breath you’re playing the political attack game.

I don't know where you get that from. What I'm doing is presenting both sides, not just my side.

Do masks work? Some experts claim yes, other experts claim no, and the most famous ones claimed both. First they said no and then they said yes. In five years, we may find out that loyal mask wearing could have saved 100,000 lives. We could also find out that wearing them cost us 100,000 lives. Nobody really knows. What we do know is that states that had strict mask mandates and states that didn't had about the same results, in fact some of those non-mask states had better results. Florida ended their lock down well over a year ago, and all schools were open with no problems. My niece lives there. She said you see very few people with masks on and it's been that way for several months now.

In New York, they forced nursing homes to take known covid infected seniors. It killed dozens or hundreds of seniors. In Florida, Governor DeSantis regulated that no covid senior be allowed to reside in nursing homes. Much like our state, they had an age priority where the elderly and vulnerable were vaccinated first. In commie states, they had a race mandate where minorities were given priority, and even prisoners.

Are you kidding me? You think there’s a possibility that mask wearing cost us 100s of thousands of lives?! Come on Ray. Thats your political stupidity kicking in. I think you wear a mask because you have family in the medical field who you trust and they are telling you to wear a mask and get the vax.

Why are you bringing up CDC advice that was given at the very beginning when we didn’t know what was going on? More info was gathered and recommendations were reaccessed. Again you bringing that up is the political gamesmanship.

To your point… Sure we may learn more in the future that tells us mask wearing really is unnecessary with Covid. I believe the vast majority of tests have shown that they are effective but there’s always more than can be learned. Point is that we don’t know anything for sure and we are knee deep in a pandemic. When the circumstances are like that you play it safe, you act extra cauteous, you go off the data that you have e and act responsibly. Trump and his clown posse are taking the opposite approach and you’re getting stuck in the middle

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Are you kidding me? You think there’s a possibility that mask wearing cost us 100s of thousands of lives?! Come on Ray. Thats your political stupidity kicking in. I think you wear a mask because you have family in the medical field who you trust and they are telling you to wear a mask and get the vax.

Why are you bringing up CDC advice that was given at the very beginning when we didn’t know what was going on? More info was gathered and recommendations were reaccessed. Again you bringing that up is the political gamesmanship.

To your point… Sure we may learn more in the future that tells us mask wearing really is unnecessary with Covid. I believe the vast majority of tests have shown that they are effective but there’s always more than can be learned. Point is that we don’t know anything for sure and we are knee deep in a pandemic. When the circumstances are like that you play it safe, you act extra cauteous, you go off the data that you have e and act responsibly. Trump and his clown posse are taking the opposite approach and you’re getting stuck in the middle

Trump hasn't been in the White House for five months. I bring up the CDC because they had no idea if the masks should be worn or not. We probably won't find that out for years to come. The CDC is not God. Remember that it was the CDC test kits that were all defective which is why we had to start from scratch when all the hysteria began. Then we had to find test kits from anybody that would sell them to us when the entire world was buying as many as they could.

 

[Slade3200]

Are you kidding me? You think there’s a possibility that mask wearing cost us 100s of thousands of lives?! Come on Ray. Thats your political stupidity kicking in. I think you wear a mask because you have family in the medical field who you trust and they are telling you to wear a mask and get the vax.

Why are you bringing up CDC advice that was given at the very beginning when we didn’t know what was going on? More info was gathered and recommendations were reaccessed. Again you bringing that up is the political gamesmanship.

To your point… Sure we may learn more in the future that tells us mask wearing really is unnecessary with Covid. I believe the vast majority of tests have shown that they are effective but there’s always more than can be learned. Point is that we don’t know anything for sure and we are knee deep in a pandemic. When the circumstances are like that you play it safe, you act extra cauteous, you go off the data that you have e and act responsibly. Trump and his clown posse are taking the opposite approach and you’re getting stuck in the middle

Trump hasn't been in the White House for five months. I bring up the CDC because they had no idea if the masks should be worn or not. We probably won't find that out for years to come. The CDC is not God. Remember that it was the CDC test kits that were all defective which is why we had to start from scratch when all the hysteria began. Then we had to find test kits from anybody that would sell them to us when the entire world was buying as many as they could.

I never said the CDC was God. They have and will make plenty of mistakes. What I’m saying is that in a time of crisis with many unknowns, it is best to error on the side of caution not recklessness. What does a bad batch of test kits have to do with anything?! You’re trying to demean the CDC. Why are you doing that? That’s your politics speaking coming from the Trumptard movement.

 

[woodwork201]

Well, as the last poster , Ray of Cleve, assert: People have the right to believe what they want.

Ditto that.

However......

Simply because one has the right to believe, doesn't mean what they believe is right.

In fact, it is surprising how often nutso-bizarro beliefs gain some adherents.

First, lemme addresss poster 'Woodwork's......statement, quoted below: 'experimentation on unwilling victims'.
Really?
Who is "unwilling"?
Who among the tested could not opt out?
And how is any testing America has been doing analogous to the 'unwilling'....AND.....forced victims of the Nazis?

It is a silly or uninformed assertion. IMHO

And now..........in the United States, our government is doing and supporting testing and experimentation on unwilling victims

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this supremely silly assertion by the next poster:

Fauci should be attacked. In any other country, he'd be arrested and imprisoned for the remainder of his life or executed.

video out there of Fauci in 2017 saying that President Trump will face a pandemic never seen before

First, how can anyone comment on 'any other country" would execute him? It is nutso-bizarro. Which country? Canada? New Zealand? Switzerland? It is silly hyperbole that tries to hard to make a questionable point. **

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next, I have no idea if there is such video that Ray of Cleve claims (link?).......but if there was, and without seeing it first, I would offer that there are any number....any number ..... of epidemiologists and infectious disease experts who have been predicting that we've long been on the threshold of a major pandemic or two, e.g., bird flu, swine flu, SARS, AIDS, etc.

The world's high populations....very dense in some locales; the high mobility of many in those populations, and the transcontinental travel of some all argue that if a disease....animal originated as so many are, or lab created......well, it has a receptive host to spread through. Duh!

It doesn't take a Dr. Anthony Fauci to make that prediction.
Do a google on it Ray, you may find a whole bunch of medical professionals you think should be executed.

IMHO


** Ray DID NOT make that quote just preceding those two asterisks above. I did. But I couldn't noodle out the quote function of the forum in order to seperate it. So, please, do not think Ray claimed it was 'silly hyperbole'. I did.

Opting out, in many cases, will cost you your job. In many other cases it will cost you your education, career, and future. It will restrict your travel. Yes, you can opt out. But they are being coerced, virtually forced, to take the vaccine and you can't deny it.

My wife and I both had Covid and the antibody treatments while we had Covid. Without the vaccine, I would not be able to go back to work.

 

[woodwork201]

The virus doesn't travel through the air on it's own. It MUST travel in droplets, which are larger and can be trapped by N95s. This is an established medical fact. Here's an article that explains everything and more so you'll stop spewing misinformation.

Fact check: No, N95 filters are not too large to stop COVID-19 particles

This attempt to discredit a central piece of protective gear used around the globe fails to account for several fundamental scientific principles.

www.usatoday.com

How many people do you see wearing N95 masks? And, of those, how many do you see wearing them correctly? Even among medical staffs?

 

[woodwork201]

This is nothing but more conspiracy theory FAKE NEWS bullshit, as usual. Not only has there been no evidence to support the fauci, covid claims, but it's already been proven that covid was not created in a lab.

No evidence Fauci funded 'creation' of COVID-19

Editor’s note, May 17, 2021: When this fact-check was first published in February 2021, PolitiFact’s sources included re

www.politifact.com

Please provide a link to a scientific article proving that the virus did not come from a lab. I won't be holding my breath.

 

[MisterBeale]

This CNN "expert guest" suggests that with vaccine passports you will gain freedom! You will gain mobility! Nice rhetoric. No problems as long as you have papers! But you shouldn't need an ID to vote.

Covid vaccine passport: Biden administration working to develop a system for people to prove they've been vaccinated - CNNPolitics

The Biden administration previously said the federal government should not be involved in efforts to create a vaccine passport system to verify that people have been vaccinated.

Gee, what changed? You know that Biden is a career politician and in it for personal gain, so I'm sure that if you were able to follow the money on this one, you would know.

The Post, citing five officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, reported the effort "has been driven largely by arms of the Department of Health and Human Services, including an office devoted to health information technology."

White House coronavirus coordinator Jeff Zients has led the White House's role in coordinating the project, an official told the Post."Our role is to help ensure that any solutions in this area should be simple, free, open source, accessible to people both digitally and on paper, and designed from the start to protect people's privacy," Zients said earlier this month, according to the newspaper.

There you have it, some political science major will determine what kind of papers you have to have to travel and congregate freely in this country. Probably also need them to get certain jobs.

So all this for a vaccine that might be 80% effective against a virus that has a 99% survival rate.

Your OP doesn't have Naomi Wolfe in it, it is deceptive.

I mean, it addresses the same stuff. But different.

Naomi Wolf: Mandatory Vaccine Passport Could Lead To The End Of Human Liberty In The West

Author of "The End Of America" Naomi Wolf joined FOX News Channel's Steve Hilton on "The Next Revolution" to warn about "Orwellian" outcomes of the Coronavirus pandemic. NAOMI WOLF: I can not say this forcefully enough: This is literally the end of human liberty in the West if this plan...

www.realclearpolitics.com