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Did you know all the government schools are being transformed into "imam hatip" (religious schools) in turkey? If you don't want to send your kid to those schools, well too bad, cause you have to.
Do you know what it is like in turkey right now? People get sentenced to jail for tweeting poems from 18th century (...)
I don't believe in ignoring one percent of a population (that totals over fifteen million), while the other ninety nine percent protects or supports them. Saying there are good muslims while ignoring the millions of murderers the religion produces is short sighted. Saying that muslims are anything like Christians is ignorance. There are no cases of Christian communities pulling the entrails out of a person and holding them up for a camera (probably the same people that would never shoot a gun at someone). I know of no cases in recent history where Christians routinely be-headed someone for not being converted or subjugated.
Did you know all the government schools are being transformed into "imam hatip" (religious schools) in turkey? If you don't want to send your kid to those schools, well too bad, cause you have to.
At below link you can query middle-schools (vocational school) in all Provinces.
Imam-Hatip schools are vocational schools, and they are less than 10% of the available schools for a kid who reached that age.
M.E.B. Mesleki Aç
Do you know what it is like in turkey right now? People get sentenced to jail for tweeting poems from 18th century (...)
Turkey is a Parliamentary democracy, but not a "liberal" society.
Erdogan was jailed for a 20th century poem who was written by same guy who wrote Turkish National Anthem.
Mehmet Akif Ersoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't believe in ignoring one percent of a population (that totals over fifteen million), while the other ninety nine percent protects or supports them. Saying there are good muslims while ignoring the millions of murderers the religion produces is short sighted. Saying that muslims are anything like Christians is ignorance. There are no cases of Christian communities pulling the entrails out of a person and holding them up for a camera (probably the same people that would never shoot a gun at someone). I know of no cases in recent history where Christians routinely be-headed someone for not being converted or subjugated.
christians are indeed much more civilised. a beheading is far too quick and takes all the fun out of execitions.
give me the sound of sizzling flesh and the pungeant smell of burnt hair of electrocution or the soothing, rhytmic, convulsive spasms of someone being gassed any day of the week.
as for entrails...jeffery dahmer.
all i really hear you saying is you prefer a technologically based, western barbarity more than a middle eastern, more primitive form of barbarity. give them time. they will develope more sophisticated weapon's systems and they will be like us in no time at all.
actually, it would be interesting to see which countries lead the world in per capita murders. i have a feeling western european cultures are going to be pretty high.
Secular freedom of speech as practiced in the west is immoral and far from being superior to anything of substance.Typical western colonial mindset.
Western values = superior culture.
Yes, freedom of speech is superior to.... no freedom of speech
I can list bunch if you like. Usually it is superior to have something good, than not to have it, you know. Simple logic.
I don't believe in ignoring one percent of a population (that totals over fifteen million), while the other ninety nine percent protects or supports them. Saying there are good muslims while ignoring the millions of murderers the religion produces is short sighted. Saying that muslims are anything like Christians is ignorance. There are no cases of Christian communities pulling the entrails out of a person and holding them up for a camera (probably the same people that would never shoot a gun at someone). I know of no cases in recent history where Christians routinely be-headed someone for not being converted or subjugated.
Secular freedom of speech as practiced in the west is immoral and far from being superior to anything of substance.Typical western colonial mindset.
Western values = superior culture.
Yes, freedom of speech is superior to.... no freedom of speech
I can list bunch if you like. Usually it is superior to have something good, than not to have it, you know. Simple logic.
Democrats believe that if a religious war is imposed upon us, we should surrender immediately and prove we won't fight a religious war.
You might also ask yourelf if the return for the past Middle Eastern wars has been worth the 4,000 US lives they cost.
It is one thing to be gung ho about fighting - quite another when one of your own children is sent to die a pointless death in a meaningless war.
When we went to war with Afghanistan and even Iraq, most Americans were in support, myself included. We got sucked in. Looking back though, it is easy to see that it was a great waste of resources and it cost us many lives. Worse than that, on top of all the lives lost, we have had tens of thousands of our soldiers come back with horrible injuries, both mental and physical, that will affect them for the rest of their lives. The bottom line is that none of it was to "defend America". If nothing else, we need to learn a lesson from this that we just don't need to get involved in every battle out there, because most of them really have no impact on us.
When we went to war with Afghanistan and even Iraq, most Americans were in support, myself included. We got sucked in. Looking back though, it is easy to see that it was a great waste of resources and it cost us many lives. Worse than that, on top of all the lives lost, we have had tens of thousands of our soldiers come back with horrible injuries, both mental and physical, that will affect them for the rest of their lives. The bottom line is that none of it was to "defend America". If nothing else, we need to learn a lesson from this that we just don't need to get involved in every battle out there, because most of them really have no impact on us.
Very good points. The cost of wars are immeasurable.
Certainly both Saddam and the Taliban were enemies worth defeating, but in retrospect I think the cost of both wars was too high, and the intelligence too poor to justify the approach taken.
It amaze me on this forum to see people desperate to go into Syria, Iran, or both. These people have learned nothing from Iraq, or even Viet Nam.
I suspect few of them are of an age they are likely to sent to the frontline themselves.
When we went to war with Afghanistan and even Iraq, most Americans were in support, myself included. We got sucked in. Looking back though, it is easy to see that it was a great waste of resources and it cost us many lives. Worse than that, on top of all the lives lost, we have had tens of thousands of our soldiers come back with horrible injuries, both mental and physical, that will affect them for the rest of their lives. The bottom line is that none of it was to "defend America". If nothing else, we need to learn a lesson from this that we just don't need to get involved in every battle out there, because most of them really have no impact on us.
Very good points. The cost of wars are immeasurable.
Certainly both Saddam and the Taliban were enemies worth defeating, but in retrospect I think the cost of both wars was too high, and the intelligence too poor to justify the approach taken.
It amaze me on this forum to see people desperate to go into Syria, Iran, or both. These people have learned nothing from Iraq, or even Viet Nam.
I suspect few of them are of an age they are likely to sent to the frontline themselves.
When we went to war with Afghanistan and even Iraq, most Americans were in support, myself included. We got sucked in. Looking back though, it is easy to see that it was a great waste of resources and it cost us many lives. Worse than that, on top of all the lives lost, we have had tens of thousands of our soldiers come back with horrible injuries, both mental and physical, that will affect them for the rest of their lives. The bottom line is that none of it was to "defend America". If nothing else, we need to learn a lesson from this that we just don't need to get involved in every battle out there, because most of them really have no impact on us.
Very good points. The cost of wars are immeasurable.
Certainly both Saddam and the Taliban were enemies worth defeating, but in retrospect I think the cost of both wars was too high, and the intelligence too poor to justify the approach taken.
It amaze me on this forum to see people desperate to go into Syria, Iran, or both. These people have learned nothing from Iraq, or even Viet Nam.
I suspect few of them are of an age they are likely to sent to the frontline themselves.
It's not only that. It is the collateral damage, the pollution, the long term environmental effects. Depleted Uranium, Casualties on all sides and what follows. War ain't pretty, nor is it sterile or controlled. Maybe that's why it should be the last extension of diplomacy, and not the first recourse.
Then there is the rebuilding. Where are the concerns of Justice, Human Rights in these New Constitutions? Without them, we end up exactly where we started. Pretty pointless and Fucked up.Where was the State Department when this was all going on?
Show me that we care about the quality of life, for those that survive, that Human Rights are considered consistently, for both Male and Female, Believer and Nonbeliever, without that, there is only another brand of Tyranny, perpetuating the cycles of horror and Injustice for Anyone in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't believe in ignoring one percent of a population (that totals over fifteen million), while the other ninety nine percent protects or supports them. Saying there are good muslims while ignoring the millions of murderers the religion produces is short sighted. Saying that muslims are anything like Christians is ignorance. There are no cases of Christian communities pulling the entrails out of a person and holding them up for a camera (probably the same people that would never shoot a gun at someone). I know of no cases in recent history where Christians routinely be-headed someone for not being converted or subjugated.
There are plenty of cases of extreme Christian brutality, but largely in conflicts that do not make the news.
Did you know 3.9 million died in the Congolese civil war - the largest loss of life in any conflict since WWII?
Did we see that on our TVs?
In general I do agree that Islam is currently more prone to riots and conflict with the west than other major religions are, but I think the extent of that difference is hugely overblown and manipulated for political ends.
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars required the American people to focus on the evils of Islam, hence I think a lot of the reactions we see on this board have been stirred up by people wishing to stir up those reactions.
Wish you guys would use "facts". That was not a "Christian" based purge. There are many faiths there, including islam and paganism.
I'm a lucky guy.
I've been fortunate enough to have spent time in more than a dozen Islamic countries, usually for a month here or a month there, but adding up to a couple of years of flitting between Jakarta, Damascus, Tirana, Amman and Dhaka, anyway. I have been through the Golan Heights with Syrian soldiers, have been to the Hezbollah HQ and so forth as well.
So though I watch the news of flag-burnings and bombs like everyone else, I also have my own experiences of being in places like Southern Lebanon and the Golan Heights to balance against what I see on my TV.
My personal experience of Islam is terrific. I have found people in the Middle East in particular extremely welcoming, friendly and open. I have been invited into mosques, have spent late nights discussing religion, and even spent one day at the beach in Syria being quizzed by a family of thirty about everything from my wife's work to the workings of the EU. I have never experienced any bigotry or hostility towards Christianity, nor towards Europe. On the contrary, I have always been treated with respect and that has extended to my country and religion.
I have also met extremists, who I have found terrifying. They often struck me as sour, bitter people whose hatred had nothing to do with Israel or anything else. The politics is only an excuse to justify hatred and killing - much as it is in Christian countries like Liberia, Rwanda or El Salvador.
My conclusion (and this is backed by research) is that 90%+ of Muslims are our allies. They are normal people, they want jobs and good schools and Nike and Nokia and peace. They will never fire a gun in their life. But there is a small hard core who are our enemy, and who are everything people on this board say they are.
The key thing to understand is that no two Muslim countries are alike. Pakistan and Syria are as different as the US and Mexico, or Sweden and Italy. Some countries are moderate by nature and history (Tunisia, Malaysia, Oman) others extremist by nature and history (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Nigeria).
What I believe we need to do - and what Obama has done very well - is to court the moderates. To offer carrots. This isolates the extremists, and allows moderate Muslims (who are often reluctant to criticise their own people publicaly, much as posters here are reluctant to criticise their own party) to take control.
Islam is not your enemy. Hatred is your enemy.
