My Objection to Religion

[Eightball]

There's a big difference between leaving or being in a religion,

and having a relationship with your Creator, which is what being "born again", or "born from above" is as Jesus explained to Nicodemus, the Jewish Pharisee. Jesus said this was of necessity.

That's what distinguishes Christianity from all the other belief systems of the world......In Christianity, it is God that does the changing of man........not based on man's meritorious works.......but by man's repentant, change of heart, resulting in acknowledgement of his total inability or please a just, and holy Creator. Man must acknowledge that he is totally weak in and of himself to live a just and righteous life before his Creator. Yes, it means man must admit that he sins, and his a sinner. He then must, by and act of faith put his trust in Jesus's saving work on the cross.........Jesus's substitutionary work that justified God's righteous wrath and judgement of sinful mankind. Jesus bridged the impossible canyon between man and God. It was His attoning death, burial, ressurrection and ascension that sealed the deal/answer for man's plight. Man's involvement? To believe from the heart....not a little social nod that Jesus was a good man........but a total realization that Jesus was all and all.......the Alpha and Omega.......beginning and end........the answer in total to man's estrangement with his Creator.

We will and can't go to heaven on the coat tails of our parents or our cultures Christian heritage......It's totally a personal faith/relationship between one man/woman and their Creator.....No amount of prayer, or even martyrdom will do it. No carrying a cross all one's life will do it. These are all feeble, useless works.......Change must come from within.......and only God can do that.

As we have all agreed........man is not evolving into a better, nicer, creature.........that's biblical to the core.

In fact, although this book was a fictional novel, "Lord Of The Flies" really and alarmingly depicted man's true state of being, without restraint, law, or some external control. It will inevitably spiral down the negative path of animal-like out-of-control behaviour. Just look at our present culture, as biblical ideals have been gradually banned from all aspects of public display or honoring? Beastiality, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, all sorts of things have become less taboo.......We are being battered with the mantra of "tolerance" to sin.......like the slowly dieing frog in the slowly heating pot of water. It is insidious and sneeking up on us.........we will all find that we all will be bit in the perverbial "arse" but then it will be too late.

Only God can change a man........Most all the religions of the world want to circumvent God's omnipotent hand in this, and present a man centered means of change for the better.

Afterall, who would know best what this creature, "man" needs than the one who knows him best as the very one who created him......The one that knows the thoughts and intents of all, knows the very cellular make-up of life, the Creator of matter, time, and existence itself.

Without God in man's life.......man naturally drifts into a spiral of self delusion........."I am my own man" "I am the determiner of my fate.".......Awe.....it only takes a nice "hit' of helpless fear to shake up that old...."I'm the boss" of my life mantra. Cancer, loss of a signifcant loved-one, loss of job, reputation, etc.....

Then and only then is there hope that man will finally realize that he has been basing his entire signifcance or identity in life on superficial, things that will rust or be eaten away in time.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.......He's also called the Rock. This latter reference means something that lasts.........doesn't dissolve with time. Man needs this in his life. It's that vacuous hole in his soul that he constantly feeds with vain things. Even King Solomon said that the things of life that he strove for were all vanity, vanity, vanity...........He finally discovered in his later years.......that his true riches weren't material, but spiritual in nature.........Solomon returned back to venerating, and worshiping God......Like the Prodigal, he came to his senses.
*
You can come to and leave religions..........but not a relationship with God..........Once you've been "born from above" you'll realize that religions are a dime a dozen, but knowing God on an intimate basis, and knowing without a shadow of a doubt that He knows and loves you without a shadow of a doubt.......is not a religion.........

 

[Bonnie]

I, also, believe that walking one's faith is a better example than loudly proclaiming it, especially if one appears to be judgmental. However, being firmly convinced that one is correct and other faiths are wrong should not bother anyone. That IS what it means to BELIEVE---to be convinced of the truth of something.

Exactly..!!!!!!!! The whole point of faith and following a religion or belief system is to make moral judgements every day about everything in life. Many secualrists and atheists are extremely judgemental!!

We Are Atheists Because...
There is no proof of the existence of god.
There is no need of, or use for, a god.
A good god would be useless if it were not powerful.
A powerful god would not deserve worship if he were not good. There is no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection.
If this is the best world god can make, the stories of Heaven must be lies.
History shows that godism is accompanied by ignorance and superstition.
There has never been such intolerance and persecution as godists have practiced.
Godism had to be fought when humankind made its successive steps toward science, liberty, and reform.
Godism was invented in the earliest days of mankind's ignorance. It is incredible that primitive humans guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered the truth about the origin of life. Everything about which science has discovered the origin was claimed previously to have been the work of a god. Godism recedes when a new fact is discovered. No new discovery ever supports a theistic explanation of anything.
All revelation proves, on investigation, to be human, and generally fraudulent.
Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

http://www.atheists.org/visitors.center/because.html

 

[glockmail]

We Are Atheists Because...
There is no proof of the existence of god.
There is no need of, or use for, a god.
A good god would be useless if it were not powerful.
A powerful god would not deserve worship if he were not good. There is no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection.
If this is the best world god can make, the stories of Heaven must be lies.
History shows that godism is accompanied by ignorance and superstition.
There has never been such intolerance and persecution as godists have practiced.
Godism had to be fought when humankind made its successive steps toward science, liberty, and reform.
Godism was invented in the earliest days of mankind's ignorance. It is incredible that primitive humans guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered the truth about the origin of life. Everything about which science has discovered the origin was claimed previously to have been the work of a god. Godism recedes when a new fact is discovered. No new discovery ever supports a theistic explanation of anything.
All revelation proves, on investigation, to be human, and generally fraudulent.
Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

THAT is on their official web site? How incredibily lame and stupid!

 

[Bonnie]

THAT is on their official web site? How incredibily lame and stupid!

How incredibly judgemental as well!!! Must be part of that tolerance and love for fellow mankind......as long as you aren't ignorant enough to believe in god

 

[Avatar4321]

First, give Kagom the benefit of the doubt. No one likes being told why they really believe or dont believe something. Its just common courtesy.

Second, don't give me this relationship not a religion garbage. Religion, by defition, is the relationship we have with God and our fellow man. There is no reason to provide some either/or dicotemy.

Third, The bible is clear that judgment is not only appropriate at times, but commanded. Its the judgment by appearances and usurping God's eternal judgment of people thats the problem.

 

[Kagom]

Curious choice of words. :happy2:

I see nothing wrong with what I said regardless.

So, now I'm going to tell the oh-so "interesting" story of my religious life (so it looks longer when I type out things).

CHAPTER 1: ATHEIST AT THE START

When I was a young child, my mom tried to submerge me in the Catholic faith. However, as a child, I didn't believe there really was a God. I don't really remember why I didn't believe, but I do remember that I didn't believe for whatever reason. Growing up my very fundamentalist aunt had tried to get me to be Christian, but I didn't want to be and so I only placated her. Eventually my mom sort of picked up on the signals and told me she wouldn't try to force her beliefs on me.

CHAPTER 2: LEARNING ABOUT GOD

After having a falling out with my school as well as bad grades, I was forced to live with my dad in South Carolina. There I had a breakdown and a slew of other fun problems. It was during this time that I started reading the Bible my aunt had sent me that came in a care package from my mom. I started to read it starting at Genesis and eventually, after a month and a half, had finished at Revelations. I felt inspired at that point and started to believe in God for the first time ever. Fast forward about a year. My mom just got a job up in Rockford, Illinois and wanted me to move back in with her for a better education and to get away from my grandfather (who had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and was making up some rather disturbing stories regarding me and my sister).

CHAPTER 3: CATHOLIC NOW

I was promptly put into Catholic school (by request). Within a month of school, we had the Natural Helpers put two older school members in your homeroom classroom and talk to you about the ins and outs of the school. There I met Marianne who informed me of a Catholic retreat that was sponsored by the Holy Family church nearby. I went because she was the only friend I really had at that time and I figured it'd be something to do during a weekend. I went to the retreat, called Kyrios, and left having a bit stronger belief in God. I proceeded to go to the Teen masses at Holy Family because they were more enjoyable than regular mass and I knew people there.

CHAPTER 4: STEUBENVILLE

The following summer I was informed of an event at Steubenville that was like Kyrios, but bigger and better and much more inspiring. I was pumped up to go and quickly took the opportunity to go. There I met Amanda, a person whom I have now lost contact with and regret that though it was no fault of my own, who would be supportive to me later on. She helped me really get into being Catholic and she was definitely a child of God. But moving on, I went to the retreat and was firmly grounded in Catholicism and God. I felt nothing could change at this point, but I was far from being right about that.

CHAPTER 5: THE LAST RETREAT

A couple of months had passed by and I was an uber-Catholic. I started to get into apologetics after being prompted so by Yahoo's Catholic chatrooms (lots of trolls from other faiths and denominations of Christianity). During that time I began being a preachy little boy (to be polite and the such) and did make a few friends of mine uncomfortable (since they were, at that time, much more open-minded than I was). Around February of '04, I went to my second and final Kyrios. Around that time I was having doubts to begin with because of my studies into apologetics. I'll explain this a bit further: I had a book called Kingdom of the Cults and in the book, many things that are done to separate heretical Christianity from mainstream Christianity was brought up and along with it comparisons to Catholicism. I felt uncomfortable and disturbed by these often true and to-the-point comparisons. So much so that I began to question Catholicism. Despite all that I went to Kyrios and I had a good time. During Benediction, I felt God. I truly felt God, or maybe my perception of God, but either way I still hold that I felt God's presence. But the seeds of doubt in Catholicism had already been planted and it would only fester and boil, so to put it.

CHAPTER 6: CATHOLIC TO CHRISTIAN

In May I came out to my mom. That went over like a lead balloon. Then in June I told my mom, after having a fight about why I didn't want to go to church, that I'm no longer Catholic. I didn't feel like going into the details about how I felt Catholicism wasn't the true way to Jesus and that I felt that way from my studies in other religions and apologetics. Either way, she assumed that I left because I was gay. I tried to explain that it had no bearing at all, but she wouldn't have it any other way. I also reminded her of what she had said to me so many years ago: "I will never force my beliefs on you." She threw a fit, but eventually gave up on that issue. I still defended Catholicism as Christian because I still felt there was some validity, but not enough for me to stay in the faith. I shifted my religious focus from apologetics and current religions to mythology, a subject I have always loved and enjoyed, but that leads us to the next chapter.

CHAPTER 7: THE DEIST

My mom bought me a giant book of mythology that covered pretty much all of Europe, the Middle East, and the Asian continents. It was this book that would eventually lead me to leave religion. I was at first thrown off by some of what I read. I began to notice many similarities between Jesus and Zoroaster as well as older mythological figures. The ones between Jesus and Zoroaster were what stuck out in my mind the most. The virginal birth, the temptations by Angra Mainyu/Satan, and the (not really that important and didn't play a role at all, but it was an interesting thing) matching double-digit numbers in their deaths (Jesus at 33 and Zoroaster at 77). There was also taking into consideration that story of Jesus may have taken many other elements from non-religious events, such as Spartacus (so much as crucifixion and oppression by the majority) as well as people were just looking for something to comfort them. I do, however, retain the belief Jesus was a real person and that he had some pretty damn good ideas. Jesus is a great man and prophet of sorts in my book, but nothing further. All of these eventually played a role and caused me to lose interest in Christianity.

Another thing that played against religion in general was that I never felt inspired by some religions (Hinduism and Buddhism, though I believe the latter is more of a philosophy than a religion, unless one is a theistic Buddhist) and that some of them were just based on older mythological beings and forged into a new faith for people (Islam's Allah being a moon god at one point) and with Judaism I felt that it would seem really weird for Yahweh to make so many diverse and different groups of people, yet only let one special section of these diverse people to be redeemed at the end of time. However, I still felt that there was a God indeed. I had felt the presence of God and I guess, to a lesser extent, my beliefs prior still had a hold on me. I decided from then on to call myself a Deist and that I would avoid joining any religion.

CONCLUSION

I left religion for various reasons all pertaining to mythology, etc. Not once did I feel a reason to leave based on my sexual orientation because, as I have said prior, I believe that is a pathetic choice. Thanks for reading.

 

[dilloduck]

I, also, believe that walking one's faith is a better example than loudly proclaiming it, especially if one appears to be judgmental. However, being firmly convinced that one is correct and other faiths are wrong should not bother anyone. That IS what it means to BELIEVE---to be convinced of the truth of something.

Conviction is poison to the secular way of thinking.

 

[Nienna]

I left religion for various reasons all pertaining to mythology, etc. Not once did I feel a reason to leave based on my sexual orientation because, as I have said prior, I believe that is a pathetic choice. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for sharing, Kagom!

:hug:

 

[glockmail]

I see nothing wrong with what I said regardless.

.....

It was a joke. Nice story, though.

 

[Kagom]

It was a joke. Nice story, though.

My bad!

And thanks glock, nienna.

 

[Gunny]

You don't know anything about me, Gunny. You assume why I left religion, but you don't know the entire story. I'll make a post about why I left religion later.

And bugger off.

I don't bugger ANYTHING. That's YOUR deal.

You'd be surprised what people know about you from posting on a board, so that statement is just BS. Unless you wish to confess that you are just an "act" for this message board.

 

[Kagom]

I don't bugger ANYTHING. That's YOUR deal.

You'd be surprised what people know about you from posting on a board, so that statement is just BS. Unless you wish to confess that you are just an "act" for this message board.

However, you assume too much about me, which is why I said "bugger off" in the first place.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I, also, believe that walking one's faith is a better example than loudly proclaiming it, especially if one appears to be judgmental. However, <b>being firmly convinced that one is correct and other faiths are wrong should not bother anyone</b>. That IS what it means to BELIEVE---to be convinced of the truth of something.

Unfortunately, the belief that one's own faith is the only true faith, whether it is religious or secular, is a toxic one. By asserting that a given faith is the onlly true faith, the uncsrupulous and power-hungry have, as history has repeatedly shown us, led the believers of a given faith to commit attrocities in tha name of their faith. Were people to understand that their faith is but one path among many, and there is much to be learned by sharing amongst all these faiths, power-hungry amoral demagogues would have little chance of turning one faith against another, thus sowing the seeds of discord, conflict and death as they have so often.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Conviction is poison to the secular way of thinking.

SO long as that conviction is rooted in reality, your assertion is incorrect.

 

[Nienna]

Unfortunately, the belief that one's own faith is the only true faith, whether it is religious or secular, is a toxic one. By asserting that a given faith is the onlly true faith, the uncsrupulous and power-hungry have, as history has repeatedly shown us, led the believers of a given faith to commit attrocities in tha name of their faith. Were people to understand that their faith is but one path among many, and there is much to be learned by sharing amongst all these faiths, power-hungry amoral demagogues would have little chance of turning one faith against another, thus sowing the seeds of discord, conflict and death as they have so often.

Or maybe if people would put their faith in a Being Who is the definition of love, and followed ONLY that Being, not other humans who claim to speak in His name, things would be a bit better. But, if you assert that there are MANY ways, that in itself is a FAITH, and an exclusion of those who believe in one way.

 

[MissileMan]

But, if you assert that there are MANY ways, that in itself is a FAITH, and an exclusion of those who believe in one way.

I would say that it isn't an exclusion, but a disagreement. He is after all, INCLUDING your religion in the many ways. But therein lies the reason that with religion comes strife. It's not acceptable for many religious people to let anyone believe and worship as they see fit, it HAS to be their way. They aren't satisfied with "live and let live" and never will be. It's really sad when someone acknowledges your faith and it's considered an affront because they also acknowledged others.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I would say that it isn't an exclusion, but a disagreement. He is after all, INCLUDING your religion in the many ways. But therein lies the reason that with religion comes strife. It's not acceptable for many religious people to let anyone believe and worship as they see fit, it HAS to be their way. They aren't satisfied with "live and let live" and never will be. It's really sad when someone acknowledges your faith and it's considered an affront because they also acknowledged others.

Strife often accompanies religion because of the absolutist goggles through which many a religions followers view their faith with. Since their is no room for compromise, there will be strife and discord.

 

[Dr Grump]

They aren't satisfied with "live and let live" and never will be. It's really sad when someone acknowledges your faith and it's considered an affront because they also acknowledged others.

I see this only with Christians and Muslims. Maybe Scientologists, too. Buddhists and Hindus live and let live from what I've seen. They rarely prothylise if at all. Same with Jews.

 

[Nienna]

I would say that it isn't an exclusion, but a disagreement. He is after all, INCLUDING your religion in the many ways. But therein lies the reason that with religion comes strife. It's not acceptable for many religious people to let anyone believe and worship as they see fit, it HAS to be their way. They aren't satisfied with "live and let live" and never will be. It's really sad when someone acknowledges your faith and it's considered an affront because they also acknowledged others.

I'm not sure if the "your" in your last sentence was meant personally, or generally. If personally, allow me assure you that I wasn't affronted. Nor do I believe it is POSSIBLE, much less my duty, to force someone to surrender to Jesus. So, you see, I am including his faith in many ways. However, the one thing I must adhere to is that this is the only true way, otherwise I cannot truly say I BELIEVE it. Just as I cannot compromise on that belief, Bully and others like him cannot compromise on their belief that there are many ways.

 

[Nienna]

Strife often accompanies religion because of the absolutist goggles through which many a religions followers view their faith with. Since their is no room for compromise, there will be strife and discord.

Such as the absolute belief that there is not one true way?