CDZ My child's right to a safe school versus your right to guns

[RetiredGySgt]

Skull still mistakes a baseball bat as a category of degree instead of difference of kind. Oh, well.

bodecea, the general welfare clause covers safety in public schools.

debbiedowner fully understands that neglect to reckless and willfullness can be grounds for suit if you don’t lock up your weapons. Skull seems to think even if the car is locked, he can be sued. I don’t think so.

What "general welfare" clause? You mean the preamble? Doesn't count as a Bill of Rights thing.

It counts as a charter mandate, yes.

The General Welfare does not mean what you and the Idiotic Liberals thinks it means. And it is NOT a power of the Government

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull still mistakes a baseball bat as a category of degree instead of difference of kind. Oh, well.

bodecea, the general welfare clause covers safety in public schools.

debbiedowner fully understands that neglect to reckless and willfullness can be grounds for suit if you don’t lock up your weapons. Skull seems to think even if the car is locked, he can be sued. I don’t think so.

What "general welfare" clause? You mean the preamble? Doesn't count as a Bill of Rights thing.

It counts as a charter mandate, yes.

The General Welfare does not mean what you and the Idiotic Liberals thinks it means. And it is NOT a power of the Government

It certainly does mean what it says: the Constitution is a document that is responsible for the General Welfare of the country and the citizens.

"Idiotic" is ad hom and this is a CDZ thread, RGS.

 

[Skull Pilot]

FYI if you own guns they are covered under a homeowner's policy just like any other property.

Only if you list them, though. What about if you don't list them, or mention them?

But at least now you are aware of your ridiculous bias against people who own guns.

Gun owners are the most irresponsible people in this country; selfishly putting themselves above the welfare of others. You people can drop fucking dead for all I care. You wouldn't be missed.

You don't give a shit if a baseball bat is stolen and used to cave some poor bastard's skull in or if a car is stolen and used to run someone over because YOU probably own those things and you are obviously of the opinion that you are far more responsible than anyone else in the fucking world it's also where you get the idea that you have the right to tell other people how they should live their lives

When someone can kill 58 people and wound 900 with a baseball bat in 60 seconds, then I'll happily talk about bat control and bat insurance. Until that time comes, congrats on making the world's shittiest, stupidest point.

Yes when someone kills people it is the fault of other people who were hundreds or thousands of miles away just because those people happen to own a gun.

 

[The Derp]

Easy? Did he not pass the background checks that you liberals promised would reduce school shootings? Hmm. Keep your hands off my rights and go after the bad guys who abuse their rights. Simple.

The problem is that there's no way to tell who the bad guys and good guys are because that can change in a second.

 

[The Derp]

If no one reports a firearms theft how do you know how many were stolen?

Because they responded as such in the survey the DoJ has conducted every year since 1973.

 

[The Derp]

Principles are responsible for overall operation of a school the fact is that the teacher is the employee charged with immediate safety and security of the students they are entrusted with.

No, they're not. This is something you're making up. It's not a standard that exists anywhere other than your feeble little mind. You imagine these things because your lizard brain is underdeveloped. So you charge teachers with a responsibility they don't have because you're too fucking lazy and cowardly to think of a better solution.

There is nothing insane about arming teachers it is in fact the best idea for protecting students from armed shooters.

Yesterday, an armed teacher in GA went nuts and fired his gun in the school. Last week, an armed teacher in Utah accidentally discharged her weapon while in the fucking bathroom. That is what arming teachers looks like. So we have two examples from the last week of armed teachers firing their weapons in schools. Only the biggest fucking idiot on the planet would think adding more guns to this would make anything or anyone safer. So are you the biggest fucking idiot on the planet, or do you just play one on these boards?

You are wrong and merely an poorly educated fool making up\ crap.

Sorry little boy but it is fact teachers are legally and professionally and morally accountable for the safety and security of the students they are entrusted with.

Read a book grow the hell up and accept the correction kiddoe.

You have two anecdotes where no one died.

None of which alters the fact that allowing teachers to be armed is the best defense against insane mass shooters.

Again, you're imagining things that aren't there. Secondly, no, it's not written anywhere that a teacher's responsibility is to the safety and security of their students. Their responsibility is to teach. By foisting the responsibility of the safety of the children onto them, you are proving the age-old criticism of parents; namely that they see school as child-care and not education.

Secondly, you need more education because the two incidents from the past week of irresponsible "armed teachers" aren't "anecdotes". They're actual events that happened and are documented.

So you argue that teachers should be armed; then this past week, two armed teachers discharged their weapons in school. No children died this time, but what if one had?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Derp, you are wrong, period.

Teachers have had the safety of their students as one of their obligations for a long, long time in schools.

 

[The Derp]

Like I said. Doesn't matter. Not my fault.

But it is your fault because you advocate for laws that weaken gun control so much so that a 19 year old can legally buy a killing machine like the AR-15, but can't buy alcohol. It's also your fault because you think it's OK to sell these types of weapons. You don't get to avoid responsibility for the very things you're arguing in defense and support. That's not how life works. For too long you Conservatives have avoided all personal responsibility. You "No true Scotsman" your way out of accountability and responsibility, like you did with Bush the Dumber, Palin, and the teabags, and like you will eventually do with Trump once he is removed from office in disgrace. We let you do that, BTW. It's not going to happen this time. Not anymore.

Again, how many cars are stolen? Are car owners all lazy good-for-nothing slobs too? If I have a gun or a car stolen it is neither a crime nor any of your business.

Far more cars are stolen than guns. But nearly 100% of car thefts are reported; cars also have to be insured. Only 86% of gun thefts are reported, and guns don't have to be insured. So as a group, you "responsible gun owners" are only responsible 86% of the time with your weapons. That's not even an "A". So since your group isn't that responsible when it comes to reporting theft, what makes you think you're responsible with your weapons at all?

Again, beside the point. School shootings was the subject and 100% of school shootings occurred on school rounds

You don't get to arbitrarily redefine the parameters of the debate just because you have a shitty argument. Stop being so entitled and get over yourself.

 

[The Derp]

Derp, you are wrong, period.

Teachers have had the safety of their students as one of their obligations for a long, long time in schools.

No, they don't. It's a responsibility lazy parents foisted on them that isn't part of their job. The persons responsible for the safety of students are the administrators and the principals, not the teachers. Teachers are responsible for teaching, not for taking bullets for their kids. That's literally the reason they're called "teachers" and not "security guards".

 

[The Derp]

Now you're calling stuff up again. I specifically did NOT say we should arm teachers. That's just you making up crap again.

If I misunderstood your position, I apologize. I thought you were arguing for arming teachers. If you're now saying you don't support that, then great.

 

[The Derp]

When someone can kill 58 people and wound 900 with a baseball bat in 60 seconds, then I'll happily talk about bat control and bat insurance. Until that time comes, congrats on making the world's shittiest, stupidest point.

Yes when someone kills people it is the fault of other people who were hundreds or thousands of miles away just because those people happen to own a gun.

A gun that they didn't secure safely. A gun that was stolen from them right under their nose. A gun they thought they responsibly secured, but didn't.

So how are you making the case that gun owners are responsible people?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Derp, you are wrong, period.

Teachers have had the safety of their students as one of their obligations for a long, long time in schools.

No, they don't. It's a responsibility lazy parents foisted on them that isn't part of their job. The persons responsible for the safety of students are the administrators and the principals, not the teachers. Teachers are responsible for teaching, not for taking bullets for their kids. That's literally the reason they're called "teachers" and not "security guards".

Your opinion is based in your false understanding of the reality of public schools.

You can say it all you want and that won't make it any more right.

 

[The Derp]

Derp, you are wrong, period.

Teachers have had the safety of their students as one of their obligations for a long, long time in schools.

No, they don't. It's a responsibility lazy parents foisted on them that isn't part of their job. The persons responsible for the safety of students are the administrators and the principals, not the teachers. Teachers are responsible for teaching, not for taking bullets for their kids. That's literally the reason they're called "teachers" and not "security guards".

Your opinion is based in your false understanding of the reality of public schools.

You can say it all you want and that won't make it any more right.

You're foisting a responsibility onto teachers that they simply don't have. Which is why you haven't been able to post any law or anything that supports your argument. That's all.

It's not a teacher's job to take bullets for their kids; it's a teacher's job to educate.

 

[The Derp]

Your opinion is based in your false understanding of the reality of public schools.

Here's the reality of public schools; teachers are hired to teach.

They aren't hired to act as security for the kids. They aren't hired to act as babysitters. They aren't hired to act as surrogate parents. So when you foist this ridiculous responsibility onto them, what you're doing is transferring that responsibility off your shoulders. Want to keep kids safe in school? Ban the manufacture and sale of AR-15's and other killing machines. That's how you keep kids safe from school shooters, who choose the AR-15 and weapons like it simply because of the capacity the gun has to dole out maximum firepower.

You can say it all you want and that won't make it any more right.

Are cashiers responsible for the safety of their customers in the store? Is a server responsible for your safety in a restaurant? No. So why are teachers responsible for the safety of the students? That's the parent's job. If parents want to be responsible for the safety of their kids, then parents should be arguing for a ban on the sale and manufacture of the types of weapons that are used to put children's security at risk.

It's lazy to say it's the teacher's responsibility for the safety of the students, whose safety is only at risk because of the parents' unwillingness to confront the true dangers those students actually face.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Derp keeps denying the reality of the responsibility that teachers have had for their students for a very long time.

His fallacy of false equivalency of cashiers and teachers makes an educated person smile.

It is lazy and false for Derp to keep repeating his lack of understanding concerning the field of education.

 

[The Derp]

Derp keeps denying the reality of the responsibility that teachers have had for their students for a very long time.

His fallacy of false equivalency of cashiers and teachers makes an educated person smile.

It is lazy and false for Derp to keep repeating his lack of understanding concerning the field of education.

No, what's happening here is that you are arguing the lazy mentality of most US parents these days; that school acts as a substitute for the home; teachers are suddenly responsible for the duties parents are charged with. School isn't a home; it's a school. Parents aren't acting responsible for the safety of their children if they're outsourcing that security to teachers, who aren't paid to be security guards and aren't trained to be security guards. Want to make students more secure? BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS.

Sooner or later, the parents are going to have to own the responsibility for their children's safety instead of pawning it off on educators.

 

[The Derp]

Derp keeps denying the reality of the responsibility that teachers have had for their students for a very long time..

NO! Teachers haven't had that responsibility. It's only a recent thing that people imagine because they're too lazy to do the responsible parenting themselves. Teachers aren't trained to be security guards. When you get your teaching certificate, you don't go through a personal self-defense class or anything like that.

This idea that teachers are responsible for children's safety is recent to just Columbine, and is an argument made so lazy parents don't have to do the hard work of making society safer for their kids. So they say "my responsibility for my child's safety ends the moment I drop them off at school, and their security is someone else's problem." That's lazy parenting. If you want to make your kids more secure in school then take the steps to do that by supporting policies that don't shift responsibility.

His fallacy of false equivalency of cashiers and teachers makes an educated person smile.

Nowhere is it written that a teacher is responsible for the safety of their students. Nowhere. It's not in any union contract. It's not in any formal governmental handbook. It's nowhere. It's a responsibility conjured by lazy parents who don't want to do the hard work of making society safer for their kids.

It is lazy and false for Derp to keep repeating his lack of understanding concerning the field of education.

You're the ones making up these weirdo standards on the spot, thinking it's how it's always been when that's not the case and never has been the case. This idea that teachers are responsible for the safety of their students coincides with the instances of mass shooters on school campuses. The teachers don't create these mass shooters; society does. So if you want to make your kids safe, you have to make society safe. That means owning responsibility, which sounds like something most parents don't want to do because they're lazy and entitled.

 

[JakeStarkey]

derp, parents do not care for your type of thinking, so continue being a voice crying in the wilderness, if you want.

It makes not a bit of difference.

 

[EGR one]

Derp, you are wrong, period.

Teachers have had the safety of their students as one of their obligations for a long, long time in schools.

No, they don't. It's a responsibility lazy parents foisted on them that isn't part of their job. The persons responsible for the safety of students are the administrators and the principals, not the teachers. Teachers are responsible for teaching, not for taking bullets for their kids. That's literally the reason they're called "teachers" and not "security guards".

Teachers are required to take reasonable care to ensure that their students do not meet with foreseeable injury. Teachers have a duty to protect the children, in their care, from foreseeable risks of injury or harm. The standard of care is that of a reasonably prudent parent.

The same requirements go right up the chain to the people who run the school systems. Schools have been failing in that category just as much as they have been failing in just about every category.

School shootings are a foreseeable risk, and has been for many years now. Apparently, school administrators figure it is cheaper and easier to pay off the law suits than fix the broken system up front.

 

[The Derp]

derp, parents do not care for your type of thinking, so continue being a voice crying in the wilderness, if you want.t makes not a bit of difference.

What a shocker that parents don't want to be held responsible for their kids, or their kids' safety.

Seriously, color me shocked at that.