Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Ropey]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...

 

[Kalam]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...

"...undertaken for the sake of Islam," precluding acts that violate its tenets from being considered "jihad".

I'm not sure why some of you seem to delight in making Islam seem as diabolical as you possibly can.

 

[Ropey]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...

"...undertaken for the sake of Islam," precluding acts that violate its tenets from being considered "jihad".

I'm not sure why some of you seem to delight in making Islam seem as diabolical as you possibly can.

It's tenets seem rather open ended to interpretation. And I do not see the world in terms of Muslims and Dhimmi.

Sorry if that is diabolical to you.

 

[Kalam]

It's tenets seem rather open ended to interpretation.

And some of you seem to be insistent that the most "radical" interpretation by your standards is automatically the most valid...

And I do not see the world in terms of Muslims and Dhimmi.

Sorry if that is diabolical to you.

Muslims and dhimmiyeen, Jews and goyim...

Diabolical? Not at all.

 

[Ropey]

It's tenets seem rather open ended to interpretation.

And some of you seem to be insistent that the most "radical" interpretation by your standards is automatically the most valid...

And I do not see the world in terms of Muslims and Dhimmi.

Sorry if that is diabolical to you.

Muslims and dhimmiyeen, Jews and goyim...

Diabolical? Not at all.

Some of you? You are posting to me. Remember when you demanded that I stand up to Marc and his methods? I said stand to your own first. I stood to him when it was him attacking me. You ran and hid from him and asked me to attack him.

Stand on your own views Kalam.

You can't just post to me personally as a human being. Can you?

I have already said that Islam can not be from the Devil. The Devil would never work towards a book that would delimit his power.

But you try to put me there when you say "some of you"

Let me try that Kalam.

Some of you killed my brother in a suicide attack in Tel-Aviv. Would you like some more "Some of You?"

See? That's why I don't do it. But you can't help yourself.

So, Jews and Goyim. Islam says that Dhimmi must be under the will of Muslims who are under the submission to Allah. This is the requirement for the Muslim world.

Now Muslims are all over the world, so this by extension, must mean that the world must submit to a world within which Allah reigns and in which Muslims must submit to Allah and all others must be subservient or below the Muslims who submit to Allah.

The Islamic pecking order is quite clear. I don't see the 13 million Jews worldwide looking to subjugate anyone or demanding all Gentiles to be subservient to our G-d.

Where does it say that for the Jews and the Gentiles? Please show me proof.

 

[Kalam]

Some of you? You are posting to me. Remember when you demanded that I stand up to Marc and his methods? I said stand to your own first. I stood to him when it was him attacking me. You ran and hid from him and asked me to attack him.

Stand on your own views Kalam.

Marc as in Marc39 the troll? I remember saying something to the effect of "you might want to tell Marc that I scroll past all of his BS." It was mostly away of indirectly telling him to f off since I try to avoid direct exchanges with posters who contribute nothing but insults and nonsense. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was trying to rally your assistance or something. I do remember being frustrated about never seeing a Zionist poster call him out, but none of that matters now anyway.

You can't just post to me personally as a human being. Can you?

Sure. Here's something I've noticed about your posts, so consider it or ignore it as you will. It is not a criticism. I think you ascribe significance to my choice of words when I don't intend for there to be any, because I'm apparently giving you the impression that I think I'm "superior" etc. when that isn't the case. If there's something I can do to avoid this, let me know. Nobody benefits when discussions like this turn personal.

I have already said that Islam can not be from the Devil. The Devil would never work towards a book that would delimit his power.

But you try to put me there when you say "some of you"

Let me try that Kalam.

Some of you killed my brother in a suicide attack in Tel-Aviv. Would you like some more "Some of You?"

See? That's why I don't do it. But you can't help yourself.

So, Jews and Goyim. Islam says that Dhimmi must be under the will of Muslims who are under the submission to Allah. This is the requirement for the Muslim world.

Now Muslims are all over the world, so this by extension, must mean that the world must submit to a world within which Allah reigns and in which Muslims must submit to Allah and all others must be subservient or below the Muslims who submit to Allah.

As I said, this isn't the case. It fails to account for the Jewish delegates in the Majlis who may represent Muslim-majority constituencies, or Christians who start a successful business, etc. Non-Muslims aren't untermenschen who live and ghettos and respond to the whims of any Muslim who happens to pass by, they're the neighbors and compatriots of the Muslim citizens.

The Islamic pecking order is quite clear. I don't see the 13 million Jews worldwide looking to subjugate anyone or demanding all Gentiles to be subservient to our G-d.

Where does it say that for the Jews and the Gentiles? Please show me proof.

I never said that it did. I don't presume to know more about your religion than you do, so I'll take your word on these sorts of things unless I find something very hard to believe for some reason.

 

[Kalam]

Some of you? You are posting to me. Remember when you demanded that I stand up to Marc and his methods? I said stand to your own first. I stood to him when it was him attacking me. You ran and hid from him and asked me to attack him.

Stand on your own views Kalam.

Marc as in Marc39 the troll? I remember saying something to the effect of "you might want to tell Marc that I scroll past all of his BS." It was mostly away of indirectly telling him to f off since I try to avoid direct exchanges with posters who contribute nothing but insults and nonsense. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was trying to rally your assistance or something. I do remember being frustrated about never seeing a Zionist poster call him out, but none of that matters now anyway.

Yes it does. It shows your pathology in asking another Jew to attack (in discussion) another Jew.

Do you do so with Sunni Man? Do you stand for me when he calls for my entire people to be removed from humanity and put to an island and kept there by force of arms? Does this mean you agree with him?

You blamed me for Marcs stuff. You do that here and say you don't understand. You don't understand when you put words in my mouth that you are being presumptuous and presumption is a part of arrogance?



You can do it in attack though, can't you.



Oh yes, you are clear Kalam. Even if you don't think others can see it.

See above

"I think you ascribe significance to my choice of words when I don't intend for there to be any, because I'm apparently giving you the impression that I think I'm "superior" etc. when that isn't the case. If there's something I can do to avoid this, let me know. Nobody benefits when discussions like this turn personal."​

Who is in control of the arenas Kalam? Yes it is the case. Even if you say the Jews here are treated pretty well. They are still not equals to Muslims. They MUST be under Muslim control. Say no to that. Tell me that they have equality.

First, please answer me this: do you consider Muslims under the authority of Israel to be equals to the Jews there?

I never said that it did. I don't presume to know more about your religion than you do, so I'll take your word on these sorts of things unless I find something very hard to believe for some reason.

Muslims and dhimmiyeen, Jews and goyim...

Oh yes you did Kalam. You attached the comparison, not me.

And you, not I, implied that it was a master-slave relationship.

 

[Ropey]

Some of you? You are posting to me. Remember when you demanded that I stand up to Marc and his methods? I said stand to your own first. I stood to him when it was him attacking me. You ran and hid from him and asked me to attack him.

Stand on your own views Kalam.

Marc as in Marc39 the troll? I remember saying something to the effect of "you might want to tell Marc that I scroll past all of his BS." It was mostly away of indirectly telling him to f off since I try to avoid direct exchanges with posters who contribute nothing but insults and nonsense. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was trying to rally your assistance or something. I do remember being frustrated about never seeing a Zionist poster call him out, but none of that matters now anyway.

Yes it does. It shows your pathology in asking another Jew to attack (in discussion) another Jew.

Do you do so with Sunni Man? Do you stand for me when he calls for my entire people to be removed from humanity and put to an island and kept there by force of arms? Does this mean you agree with him? You asked me that with Marc.

You blamed me for Marcs stuff. You do that here and say you don't understand. You don't understand when you put words in my mouth that you are being presumptuous and presumption is a part of arrogance?

It's hard for you to just post to me personally as a human being. Isn't it?

You can do it in attack though, can't you.

I put forward that we are no more than intellectual Dhimmi to him.

I see you've made the assumption that I consider you an intellectual. (your emoticon,not mine)

Oh yes, you are clear Kalam. Even if you don't think others can see it. I put forward is not the same as saying you are Kalam. You know this, of course.

See above

Sure. Here's something I've noticed about your posts, so consider it or ignore it as you will. It is not a criticism. I think you ascribe significance to my choice of words when I don't intend for there to be any, because I'm apparently giving you the impression that I think I'm "superior" etc. when that isn't the case. If there's something I can do to avoid this, let me know. Nobody benefits when discussions like this turn personal.

I see you've made the assumption that I consider you an intellectual. (your (Kalam's) emoticon,not mine)

See above although I can't believe you don't see this.

I have already said that Islam can not be from the Devil. The Devil would never work towards a book that would delimit his power.

But you try to put me there when you say "some of you"

Let me try that Kalam.

Some of you killed my brother in a suicide attack in Tel-Aviv. Would you like some more "Some of You?"

See? That's why I don't do it. But you can't help yourself.

So, Jews and Goyim. Islam says that Dhimmi must be under the will of Muslims who are under the submission to Allah. This is the requirement for the Muslim world.

Now Muslims are all over the world, so this by extension, must mean that the world must submit to a world within which Allah reigns and in which Muslims must submit to Allah and all others must be subservient or below the Muslims who submit to Allah.

As I said, this isn't the case. It fails to account for the Jewish delegates in the Majlis who may represent Muslim-majority constituencies, or Christians who start a successful business, etc. Non-Muslims aren't untermenschen who live and ghettos and respond to the whims of any Muslim who happens to pass by, they're the neighbors and compatriots of the Muslim citizens.

Who is in control of the arenas Kalam? Yes it is the case. Even if you say the Jews here are treated pretty well. They are still not equals to Muslims. They MUST be under Muslim control. Say no to that. Tell me that they have equality.

The Islamic pecking order is quite clear. I don't see the 13 million Jews worldwide looking to subjugate anyone or demanding all Gentiles to be subservient to our G-d.

Where does it say that for the Jews and the Gentiles? Please show me proof.

I never said that it did. I don't presume to know more about your religion than you do, so I'll take your word on these sorts of things unless I find something very hard to believe for some reason.

Muslims and dhimmiyeen, Jews and goyim...

Oh yes you did Kalam. You attached the comparison, not me.

 

[Ropey]

Marc as in Marc39 the troll? I remember saying something to the effect of "you might want to tell Marc that I scroll past all of his BS." It was mostly away of indirectly telling him to f off since I try to avoid direct exchanges with posters who contribute nothing but insults and nonsense. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was trying to rally your assistance or something. I do remember being frustrated about never seeing a Zionist poster call him out, but none of that matters now anyway.

Yes it does. It shows your pathology in asking another Jew to attack (in discussion) another Jew.

Do you do so with Sunni Man? Do you stand for me when he calls for my entire people to be removed from humanity and put to an island and kept there by force of arms? Does this mean you agree with him?

You blamed me for Marcs stuff. You do that here and say you don't understand. You don't understand when you put words in my mouth that you are being presumptuous and presumption is a part of arrogance?

You can do it in attack though, can't you.

Oh yes, you are clear Kalam. Even if you don't think others can see it.

See above

"I think you ascribe significance to my choice of words when I don't intend for there to be any, because I'm apparently giving you the impression that I think I'm "superior" etc. when that isn't the case. If there's something I can do to avoid this, let me know. Nobody benefits when discussions like this turn personal."​

First, please answer me this: do you consider Muslims under the authority of Israel to be equals to the Jews there?

No Kalam. You first. Answer my post and I will answer yours. Please.

Muslims and dhimmiyeen, Jews and goyim...

Oh yes you did Kalam. You attached the comparison, not me.

And you, not I, implied that it was a master-slave relationship.

Not at all. Not a Master-Slave relationship. I never said or implied that relationship. You must ask me if I mean such a thing rather than arrogantly thinking that is what I mean. DOUBLY so when it is SUCH an important concept Kalam.

Maybe someday, then we can get to actually discussing. Not like in the diatribe posts where NOTHING is learned of each other.

I do not know you and I wonder if I will ever even get the chance if you continually tell me what the I think.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...

"...undertaken for the sake of Islam," precluding acts that violate its tenets from being considered "jihad".

I'm not sure why some of you seem to delight in making Islam seem as diabolical as you possibly can.

So what would the Quran call an precluded act ?

 

[José]

Theocracies arose and flourished during the agrarian, prescientific stage of human civilization. It doesn't pose any greater threat to the industrial, scientific stage of modern day societies than the monarchical system.

You just have to look at how many human beings presently live under theocratic states and how many live under non religious states (more than 95% of the world's population) to have a clear notion of where mankind is heading to.

Humanity does not progress uniformly, at the same time. The existence of muslim theocracies in the 21th century is just a harmless anachronic curiosity waiting to be swept away from the face of the Earth by the advance of the techno-scientific industrial civilization JUST LIKE THE STONE AGE HUNTER-GATHERERS THAT STILL INHABIT REMOTE PARTS OF THE AMAZON BASIN.

I shake my head in disbelief when I see a group of supposedly adult individuals concerned about the possibility that a fossil political system, created in the Neolithic Age and based on religious superstition may take over the the world.

 

[José]

It boggles my mind to no end that mentally sane people around the world can seriously entertain the thought that the extremely advanced techno-scientific societies that will exist 200, 500 years in the future, based entirely on scientific rationality, on reason and experimentation may be in any way compatible with nearly prehistoric forms of government based on religious obscurantism that was already discarded by the overwhelming majority of the human race, from the US to China.

Those individuals let their brains fall out of their heads a long time ago and didn't even notice it.

 

[José]

As always, José jumps into the conversation like a tank, like a bulldozer mercilessly pulverising everyone and everything unluck enought to find themselves in front of him.

The moderators would do well to close this thread now...

After the last two posts there isn't anything else of value to be added.

 

[gautama]

Theocracies arose and flourished during the agrarian, prescientific stage of human civilization. It doesn't pose any greater threat to the industrial, scientific stage of modern day societies than the monarchical system.

You just have to look at how many human beings presently live under theocratic states and how many live under non religious states (more than 95% of the world's population) to have a clear notion of where mankind is heading to.

Humanity does not progress uniformly, at the same time. The existence of muslim theocracies in the 21th century is just a harmless anachronic curiosity waiting to be swept away from the face of the Earth by the advance of the techno-scientific industrial civilization JUST LIKE THE STONE AGE HUNTER-GATHERERS THAT STILL INHABIT REMOTE PARTS OF THE AMAZON BASIN.

I shake my head in disbelief when I see a group of supposedly adult individuals concerned about the possibility that a fossil political system, created in the Neolithic Age and based on religious superstition may take over the the world.

What Jose is spewing is UNMITIGATED & UNADULTERATED GARBAGE !!!

Islamofascism is taking over Europe, and the rate of the takeover is clearly documented in the video:

youtube: How Islam is Taking Over the World: Islamization Explained.

Or, select practically any of Pat Condell's youtube 1/2 dozen videos where he exposes the bogus idea of "peaceful" Muslims.

Even England.....the historical bastion of our basic freedoms.....now has installed Sharia law.

Sweden....one of the most tranquil, peaceful countries in Europe ..... probably the World....... has its Constitution amended to give special privileges to the fucking Muslims to guard against any DISCRIMINATION, specifically against them .......the other religions non-mentioned. In other words, these Muslim fuckers can interpret any Swedish law to THEIR liking and agree or not agree if it can be enforced against them.

Not only that, the Muslim Amendment logically, can now be used to establish THEIR OWN LAWS and object to other Swedish laws under the excuse of DISCRIMINATION.

Yep, Sweden being a peaceful, tranquil country for centuries is NOW the country with the MOST RAPES in Europe. The rapes being conducted EXCLUSIVELY....or, almost EXCLUSIVELY by Muslim arseholes.

So, Jose is FULL OF SHIT.

 

[José]

Originally posted by gautama
Islamofascism is taking over Europe

List of countries by Muslim population​

Country/Region--------------------Muslim percentage (%) of total population

United Kingdom:---------------------------------2.7

Sweden:------------------------------------------2

United States:-----------------------------------0.8

This numbers include secular muslims, muslims in name only.

List of countries by Muslim population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[José]

SOME takeover you have there, gautama.

 

[José]

The so called "growing muslim population" in Europe will not continue to grow for much longer. Europe and the rest of the free world is already awakening to the dangers of allowing mass immigration of people who may be in principle sympathetic to totalitarian, medieval ideologies.

So to make a long story short:

Muslim theocratic dictatorships pose absolutely no LONG TERM THREAT to secularism. As I said, theocracy is already a dying political system and in a few centuries they will be replaced by secular, democratic states even in their last bastion, the Middle East.

The SHORT TERM THREAT to the free world is already being addressed with more and more europeans demanding severe limitations on immigration from muslim majority countries.

 

[editec]

Consider that radical islam did not exist 40 years ago.

Consider that our allies are mostly the places where radical islam is practiced.

If we were really concerned about radical islam, IRAN would be our ally.

Because the radical Wahhabists hate the Shia even more than they hate the Jews and Christians.

Wahhabists HATE secular governments, modernity and want to impose Sharia on the entire world.

Where are they from?

Saudi Arabia.

Wake up and smell the conspiracy, folks.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Consider that radical islam did not exist 40 years ago.
.

Please explain the continuous violence from the earliest days of Islam too Mohammads immediate successors and throughout the 13 centuries of recoded history.
Thank you in advance.

 

[High_Gravity]

Consider that radical islam did not exist 40 years ago.

Consider that our allies are mostly the places where radical islam is practiced.

If we were really concerned about radical islam, IRAN would be our ally.

Because the radical Wahhabists hate the Shia even more than they hate the Jews and Christians.

Wahhabists HATE secular governments, modernity and want to impose Sharia on the entire world.

Where are they from?

Saudi Arabia.

Wake up and smell the conspiracy, folks.

This has got to be a huge joke.