Muslim Brotherhood in the USA

[Mr.Fitnah]

Im afraid if you cannot use be restrained by the bounds of reason. There is no point in going on.
Thanks.

What? Yeah, okay. I can't be restrained by the bounds of logic because you assert false premises. Oh, the irony there.

There is no false premises. For a faith to be an Abrahamic religion It must founded by Abraham's progeny there must be a blood connection, there is not.
It isn't complicated.

 

[gekaap]

There is no false premises. For a faith to be an Abrahamic religion It must founded by Abraham's progeny there must be a blood connection, there is not.

It isn't complicated.

Actually, it's not true. It just isn't. Being an "Abrahamic" faith has nothing to do with being traceable to Abraham's progeny. As a matter of fact, no group is traceable to Abraham, except as a matter of faith in and of itself. That, then, makes your requirement question begging. An Abrahamic faith is one that worships the God of Abraham and has its origins in the worship of the same.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For Islam to follow the spritual traditions of Abraham you have to believe a 100 year old Abraham left his recorded home of Beersheba crossed 1000 miles of rugged mountains and impassable desert with a small child and a slave girl to pile rocks in the desert.
Rocks that had originally been piled up by allah, rebuilt by Adam and circumnavigated by Noah Who were all muslims. Tabari volume 1 page 103-360


And you have to believe that the Jews who maintained meticulous records in their Temple in anticipation of the Messiah, listed forty-one generations from Ishmael (2000 BCto Yahshua another 15 generational years to reach a point in Mohammad lineage the Kinanah's Quraysh 56 generations .
According to Islam there are 15 generations between Abraham and Kinanah then less then 400 years to Mohammad 18 generations spanning 2300 years.

If you believe that, you are free to believe Islam is an Abrahamic religion, you might as well go all the way and believe Mohammad was a prophet of god and declare yourself a muslim.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For Islam to follow the spritual traditions of Abraham you have to believe a 100 year old Abraham left his recorded home of Beersheba crossed 1000 miles of rugged mountains and impassable desert with a small child and a slave girl to pile rocks in the desert.
Rocks that had originally been piled up by allah, rebuilt by Adam and circumnavigated by Noah Who were all muslims. Tabari volume 1 page 103-360


And you have to believe that the Jews who maintained meticulous records in their Temple in anticipation of the Messiah, listed forty-one generations from Ishmael (2000 BCto Yahshua another 15 generational years to reach a point in Mohammad lineage the Kinanah's Quraysh 56 generations .
According to Islam there are 15 generations between Abraham and Kinanah then less then 400 years to Mohammad 18 generations spanning 2300 years.

If you believe that, you are free to believe Islam is an Abrahamic religion, you might as well go all the way and believe Mohammad was a prophet of god and declare yourself a muslim.

Oh snap! You've done a truly incredible job of getting out the TRUTH throughout this thread, thank you. Unfortunately, you will never convince the Anti-Semite of anything... his or her blind hatred of Jews and anything Jewish clouds their perception. The indoctrination is extreme.

 

[rdking647]

since there is no concrete evidence in favor of Judaism,christianity or islam,all three are just fairy tales told by parents to scare their young into living up to a certain standard and used by religious institutions to gain more money and power...

 

[L.K.Eder]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For Islam to follow the spritual traditions of Abraham you have to believe a 100 year old Abraham left his recorded home of Beersheba crossed 1000 miles of rugged mountains and impassable desert with a small child and a slave girl to pile rocks in the desert.
Rocks that had originally been piled up by allah, rebuilt by Adam and circumnavigated by Noah Who were all muslims. Tabari volume 1 page 103-360


And you have to believe that the Jews who maintained meticulous records in their Temple in anticipation of the Messiah, listed forty-one generations from Ishmael (2000 BCto Yahshua another 15 generational years to reach a point in Mohammad lineage the Kinanah's Quraysh 56 generations .
According to Islam there are 15 generations between Abraham and Kinanah then less then 400 years to Mohammad 18 generations spanning 2300 years.

If you believe that, you are free to believe Islam is an Abrahamic religion, you might as well go all the way and believe Mohammad was a prophet of god and declare yourself a muslim.

Oh snap! You've done a truly incredible job of getting out the TRUTH throughout this thread, thank you. Unfortunately, you will never convince the Anti-Semite of anything... his or her blind hatred of Jews and anything Jewish clouds their perception. The indoctrination is extreme.

i see, the turnip truck has passed through again, without properly securing the merchandise.

 

[Sunni Man]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mr. Fitnuts;

I notice that you have elected to highlite just the first part of the sentence.

Which coincidently, fits your agenda.


But the second part of the same sentence reads:

"or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham"


So in other words, a direct blood line isn't necessary or required.

In order to participate in an on going spiritual or religious tradition.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mr. Fitnuts;

I notice that you have elected to highlite just the first part of the sentence.

Which coincidently, fits your agenda.


But the second part of the same sentence reads:

"or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham"


So in other words, a direct blood line isn't necessary or required.

In order to participate in an on going spiritual or religious tradition.

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

emphasizing or

I that I did not edit the post in a fashion that suits your agenda does not alter the fact that Abraham did not attend the pre Islamic ritual in a place that did not exist during his lifetime.
Mohammad is the only prophet of Islam the traditions of Islam adopted in whole from preIslamic poly theistic business plan that Mohammads G G grandfather bought for a skin of wine and a lute From Hulayl .

 

[Sunni Man]

Abraham and his son Ishmael built an altar, known as the Kabah, at Becca (Mecca) in the land of Paran (Saudi Arabia).

The Bible uses the ancient names of Becca, Paran, and Kedar for Mecca and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mecca stands in place originally known as Jurhum .
Refer to post
http://www.usmessageboard.com/3297074-post63.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Mecca stands in place originally known as Jurhum .

The Bible calls it Becca in the land of Paran.

 

[bodecea]

Islams "jesus" is Mohammad appropriating a name for Islams purpose .
Isa Islams Jesus mimics mohammad for his own goals.
Mohammad has no claim on the bloodline of Abraham and is not a prophet.

I never thought that there was a blood link claimed between them.
How can Jesus mimic Mohammed...didn't he come about 600 years beforehand?

"Islams Jesus" is a sock puppet for mohammad putting words in his mouth.
If Mohammad is not in the line of Abraham his religion it is not an abrahamic religion.
Ishmael was not the father of the arabs .
According to Islamic tradition.
Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 583
Ishmael learned arabic and lived with the people in mekka.

Muslims seem to think he is.

 

[signelect]

In most circles Abraham is considered the father of three religions, christian, Jew and Muslim, at least in the books that I have read. I hear a lot about Christians being disbelievers, of what, do the Muslims believe that their believe is the only one. I am a christian and I believe that God will look favorably at all religions that recognize a higher power regardless of the name they call him. One big difference is that I will not go out and kill someone because of what they do or do not believe.

 

[bodecea]

In most circles Abraham is considered the father of three religions, christian, Jew and Muslim, at least in the books that I have read. I hear a lot about Christians being disbelievers, of what, do the Muslims believe that their believe is the only one. I am a christian and I believe that God will look favorably at all religions that recognize a higher power regardless of the name they call him. One big difference is that I will not go out and kill someone because of what they do or do not believe.

The biggest differences between Christianity and Judaism today and Islam today is the people who follow. MOST Christians and Jews have stepped into the 21st century(or at least the 20th century) with their culture and moral attitudes...and believe it or not, that means Humanism. MOST Muslim cultures are still in the 16th-17th-18th century with their moral attitudes...a place that Christians and Jew used to be. Hauling them into the 21st century is happening but not without backlash from those patriarchs who perceive losing their power over the masses when that happens. Just like the Counter Reformation, etc fighting against the Age of Reason and Enlightenment indicated a backlash of Christian patriarchs fighting against a perceived loss of power. Muslim culture is where Christian culture was about 6-4 centuries ago...if not farther back.

 

[gekaap]

Oh snap! You've done a truly incredible job of getting out the TRUTH throughout this thread, thank you. Unfortunately, you will never convince the Anti-Semite of anything... his or her blind hatred of Jews and anything Jewish clouds their perception. The indoctrination is extreme.

I AM A JEW!!!!!!

Stop calling me an anti-Semite. And he hasn't gotten out anything, other than his own ego centric failings and biases. And, since according to that guy there is nothing to link Muslims and Jews, your argument pathetically fails all the more so.

 

[gautama]

since there is no concrete evidence in favor of Judaism,christianity or islam,all three are just fairy tales told by parents to scare their young into living up to a certain standard and used by religious institutions to gain more money and power...

That encapsulates my belief.

Except that Islam, with it's first dictum preaches extreme violence as a final means of conversion, and that annihilates the greater principle of non-religionists which is that Human Aspirations (Altruistic) should never be abrogated.

The first dictum of Islam: Make the World the Caliphate of Islam preferably by word......by SWORD if necessary.

No other religion makes this an option for conversion to its faith.

NOTE: The fact that some Popey-Dopeys practiced extreme violence does not vitiate the principles of Christianity.

You cannot be a true Muslim if you can't abide by its First Dictum.

The First Dictum of Islam makes this a Religion of murderous arseholes.

 

[gekaap]

Abrahamic religions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.
Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also from your provided link:

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in order of appearance, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

For Islam to follow the spritual traditions of Abraham you have to believe a 100 year old Abraham left his recorded home of Beersheba crossed 1000 miles of rugged mountains and impassable desert with a small child and a slave girl to pile rocks in the desert.

Hey, through Allah, all things are possible, right? In any event, your claim is unfounded. Why is it necessary to accept that in order to accept Islam as an Abrahamic religion?

Rocks that had originally been piled up by allah, rebuilt by Adam and circumnavigated by Noah Who were all muslims. Tabari volume 1 page 103-360

Wait a second, Adam and Noah are figures in the Judeo-Christian bible. I thought you said that Islam wasn't Abrahamic?

And you have to believe that the Jews who maintained meticulous records in their Temple in anticipation of the Messiah, listed forty-one generations from Ishmael (2000 BCto Yahshua another 15 generational years to reach a point in Mohammad lineage the Kinanah's Quraysh 56 generations .

No, I don't have to believe that. One, because I'm not Muslim so I don't have to believe any component if Islam. I can believe that Mohammad was a schizophrenic and a con man if I want to. That doesn't change the fact that it's an Abrahamic religion. Second, there is no requirement for the central figure of a given religion to have any roots, much less traceable roots, to Abraham, in order for the religion to be Abrahamic. The term "Abrahamic" does not refer to the person himself, but to the god the person worshiped. It's not a difficult concept, I've explained that already in this thread, but you keep ignoring the fact. I guess it doesn't serve your agenda very well.

According to Islam there are 15 generations between Abraham and Kinanah then less then 400 years to Mohammad 18 generations spanning 2300 years.

So what? All that says is that Islam IS an Abrahamic religion according to the false criteria that you have demanded.

If you believe that, you are free to believe Islam is an Abrahamic religion, you might as well go all the way and believe Mohammad was a prophet of god and declare yourself a muslim.

Being knowledgeable of a religion does not necessitate that one follow said religion. I happen to be very knowledgeable about Christianity as well. That doesn't mean that I'm a Christian or that I "might as well go all the way and" be a Christian.

 

[Sunni Man]

The biggest differences between Christianity and Judaism today and Islam today is the people who follow. MOST Christians and Jews have stepped into the 21st century(or at least the 20th century) with their culture and moral attitudes...and believe it or not, that means Humanism. MOST Muslim cultures are still in the 16th-17th-18th century with their moral attitudes...a place that Christians and Jew used to be. Hauling them into the 21st century is happening but not without backlash from those patriarchs who perceive losing their power over the masses when that happens. Just like the Counter Reformation, etc fighting against the Age of Reason and Enlightenment indicated a backlash of Christian patriarchs fighting against a perceived loss of power. Muslim culture is where Christian culture was about 6-4 centuries ago...if not farther back.

Muslims have seen how both Judaism and Christianity have been neutered and secularized by the West.

So that today, Christians and Jews do not follow what the Bible / Torah says concerning laws, family, morals, or anything else.

Yes, we muslims embrace the West's technology and science.

But, not at the expense of watering down the Quran.

And will not reject the Quran's timeless teachings and laws for setting up and living in society.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yes it is understood as a muslim you have certain beliefs these beliefs are not bound by facts.

For Islam we will look at Islamic history.
The Khuza tribe was removed the Jurhum tribe for stealing the tributes they lost control over the zamzam and the kaaba. An accumulation of gods to visit for all tribes
Jurhum was a place people passed through they paid tribute in the hajj.

Circumambulating the cube was a pre Islamic ritual.

Every tribe has shrines that were circled,
Al-Uzza was worshiped and circled in the Nakhla shrine.
Manat worshiped and circled by the Aus and Khazraj in Yathrib.

Hisham ibn al-Kalbi :
The Quraysh were wont to circumambulate the Ka’bah and say:
By Allat and al-‘Uzza,
And Manah, the third idol besides.
Verily they are the most exalted females
Whose intercession is to be sought.


Fasting the Sabeans fasted for 30 days from night to sunrise,celebrated Eid and prayed for the dead without kneeling.
Mohammaed lifted this ritual whole with one change the sabeans Pages of Seth directed them to pray 7 times a day 5 of which were at the same hours as chosen to be copied by Mohammad.

Islamic rituals from Pre Islamic times. Not from Abraham.

 

[bodecea]

The biggest differences between Christianity and Judaism today and Islam today is the people who follow. MOST Christians and Jews have stepped into the 21st century(or at least the 20th century) with their culture and moral attitudes...and believe it or not, that means Humanism. MOST Muslim cultures are still in the 16th-17th-18th century with their moral attitudes...a place that Christians and Jew used to be. Hauling them into the 21st century is happening but not without backlash from those patriarchs who perceive losing their power over the masses when that happens. Just like the Counter Reformation, etc fighting against the Age of Reason and Enlightenment indicated a backlash of Christian patriarchs fighting against a perceived loss of power. Muslim culture is where Christian culture was about 6-4 centuries ago...if not farther back.

Muslims have seen how both Judaism and Christianity have been neutered and secularized by the West.

So that today, Christians and Jews do not follow what the Bible / Torah says concerning laws, family, morals, or anything else.

Yes, we muslims embrace the West's technology and science.

But, not at the expense of watering down the Quran.

And will not reject the Quran's timeless teachings and laws for setting up and living in society.

You may say "watered down"...we say "matured". You want to be as brutal as the Middle Ages, don't be surprised if in this 21st century, people look to you as brutes and thugs.