Muslim baker...make me a Mohammed cake; Muslim hotel owner...host my pork festival; Can they refuse?

[Dogmaphobe]

Professor Plum and Miss Scarlet------are british----
but you got the general idea

Ah, so he kept his socks on as they did the nasty. I won't hold that against him.

I would certainly hold a candlestick against Miss Scarlet, however.

 

[Ravi]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

The muslim baker may refuse. If he's never made a Mo cake he is never obligated to make a Mo cake. Custom made to order does not mean anything goes.

 

[Ravi]

Here's the proposed change to the law, btw.

Read the updated Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act

 

[irosie91]

Professor Plum and Miss Scarlet------are british----
but you got the general idea

Ah, so he kept his socks on as they did the nasty. I won't hold that against him.

I would certainly hold a candlestick against Miss Scarlet, however.

---He had to-----the house was full of peeking intruders----armed with everything

Professor Plum and Miss Scarlet------are british----
but you got the general idea

Ah, so he kept his socks on as they did the nasty. I won't hold that against him.

I would certainly hold a candlestick against Miss Scarlet, however.

He had to stay partially dressed----the house was full of peekers and there was a peep hole in the wall between
the Library and the bedroom. ------the killer candlestick was the least of his problems-----that gun thru the peep hole in the hands of Mrs White------was the real issue

 

[High_Gravity]

Is running a bakery really this complicated?

 

[irosie91]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

The muslim baker may refuse. If he's never made a Mo cake he is never obligated to make a Mo cake. Custom made to order does not mean anything goes.

oh--------that's ok--------his SALAT birthday cake can be
modified at the wedding

 

[Dogmaphobe]

He had to stay partially dressed----the house was full of peekers and there was a peep hole in the wall between
the Library and the bedroom. ------the killer candlestick was the least of his problems-----that gun thru the peep hole in the hands of Mrs White------was the real issue

Peep holes?

You sound like such a voyeur, Rosie, watching Professor Plum grab a quick piece of brass.

I had not realized you were so kinky.

 

[AceRothstein]

Is running a bakery really this complicated?

Only for Christians.

 

[irosie91]

Is running a bakery really this complicated?

He had to stay partially dressed----the house was full of peekers and there was a peep hole in the wall between
the Library and the bedroom. ------the killer candlestick was the least of his problems-----that gun thru the peep hole in the hands of Mrs White------was the real issue

Peep holes?

You sound like such a voyeur, Rosie, watching Professor Plum grab a quick little piece of brass.

I had not realized you were so kinky.

I got that way playing clue as a child------I always won

 

[Kondor3]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

The muslim baker may refuse. If he's never made a Mo cake he is never obligated to make a Mo cake. Custom made to order does not mean anything goes.

Close enough.

Thank you.

 

[Ravi]

Is running a bakery really this complicated?

No. People just like to pretend that it is so.

 

[irosie91]

Let's move on to more absurd possibilities

 

[irosie91]

Is running a bakery really this complicated?

No. People just like to pretend that it is so.

you ever done it?------damned complex------food allergies

 

[Syriusly]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

Once again- look to the law- the law doesn't care about the religious beliefs of the business owner- only about whether the discrimination is lawful or not

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Who would either baker be discriminating against?

If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because the couple are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to a gay couple- because they are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to Joe Blow, the asshole- because he is being an asshole- that is not covered by the law.

 

[irosie91]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

Once again- look to the law- the law doesn't care about the religious beliefs of the business owner- only about whether the discrimination is lawful or not

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Who would either baker be discriminating against?

If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because the couple are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to a gay couple- because they are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to Joe Blow, the asshole- because he is being an asshole- that is not covered by the law.

how about this one------I go to a muslim book store and
ask for five dozen copies of the Koran to be used as fuel in a piggy pork roast picnic?

 

[High_Gravity]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

Once again- look to the law- the law doesn't care about the religious beliefs of the business owner- only about whether the discrimination is lawful or not

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Who would either baker be discriminating against?

If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because the couple are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to a gay couple- because they are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to Joe Blow, the asshole- because he is being an asshole- that is not covered by the law.

how about this one------I go to a muslim book store and
ask for five dozen copies of the Koran to be used as fuel in a piggy pork roast picnic?

They should sell you the Qurans, but why would you tell them what its for lol

 

[Ravi]

...Once again, if a bakery doesn't offer the images it IS NOT REQUIRED TO SELL THE IMAGES. How many times must this be pointed out to you?

And if the bakery advertises custom decorating made-to-order (which most do), and then objects to a particular sort of imagery, on religious grounds?

How many times will you use that same lame-ass excuse to try to weasel out of answering the question?

They can not sell any image they want using whatever grounds floats their boats. IF THEY DON'T OFFER THE IMAGE THEY ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SELL IT.

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Got it?

Not a pre-existing Catalog of Offered Imagery, but...

Custom Made-to-Order Decorations...

Now...

Answer the frigging question...

If you dare...

If a Muslim baker advertises Custom Made-to-Order Cake Decorations...

And a customer wants a custom made-to-order image of the Prophet Muhammed on the cake...

Is the Muslim baker entitled to refuse the customer's order, on the grounds that it violates his religious principles?

Yes or No?

Once again- look to the law- the law doesn't care about the religious beliefs of the business owner- only about whether the discrimination is lawful or not

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is the state agency established to administer and enforce Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations. Colorado law prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), familial status (housing only), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

Who would either baker be discriminating against?

If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake to a gay couple because the couple are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to a gay couple- because they are gay- that is covered by the law.
If a Muslim or Christian baker refused to sell a cake with Mohammed's face on it to Joe Blow, the asshole- because he is being an asshole- that is not covered by the law.

how about this one------I go to a muslim book store and
ask for five dozen copies of the Koran to be used as fuel in a piggy pork roast picnic?

Absolutely! I was at a Christian bookstore just this morning buying bibles and I told the clerk I was going to use them for toilet paper. She just told me to have a nice day.

 

[Kondor3]

...look to the law- the law doesn't care about the religious beliefs of the business owner- only about whether the discrimination is lawful or not...

Indeed. Nolo contendere. The question now becomes: Is the Law right and just? Is it fair? Is it in the best interests of The People?

And, if not, it becomes a matter of (1) changing the Law or (2) finding legal ways to circumvent it until it can be changed.

 

[Coyote]

A pork festival or a Muhammed cake... aren't refusing to serve a particular person. It's not providing a particular product.

They don't have to provide that product. For example - you don't go to a wedding cake maker and demand they make you pies. If the Muslim owner refused to provide service to a customer because they were Christian that would be different.

And if they routinely provide a given product, complete with decorations, and they object to a particular ordered decoration on religious grounds?

My guess is that a Muslim baker wouldn't offer graven images to anyone.

Hell, just to spice things up, let's say that he's a Cafeteria Muslim - picking and choosing which religious precepts to honor or observe, and which to ignore - and who routinely affixes imagery to the top of cakes...

But the request for an image of Muhammed on the cake is The Last Straw, and One Step Too Far into the Land of Wickedness, and he can't bring himself to go that far against his faith and his people, and he refuses.

Akin to a Catholic who routinely bakes and decorates cakes for Gays but who refuses a customer order for a cake when he learns that the cake is to feature an image of a fully-clothed Virgin Mary getting gangbanged under her skirts by all twelve Apostles.

People have their limits, and so should The Law, in this context.

I agree. But it is still about providing a product rather than not serving a particular clientel isn't it?

 

[Kondor3]

,,,People have their limits, and so should The Law, in this context.

I agree. But it is still about providing a product rather than not serving a particular clientel isn't it?

It is, indeed, about providing a product, but it is ALSO about providing folks with sufficient freedom of conscience, to do what their religious beliefs tell them is right; two aspects of operating a public business which seem all but mutually exclusive under such circumstances. The presently-drawn line-in-the-sand is insufficient to the task at hand, in the eyes of vast numbers who believe that their spirituality or religion is more important to their existence and their soul than man-made legislation, and who are being bludgeoned by that law, to do Evil or to legitimize or validate or participate in what they see as Evil. Something must be done.