Muhammad Ali documentary by Ken Burns debuts tonight on PBS at 8ET, will run for 4 nights in a row, examines the relationship of Ali with Malcolm X!

[rupol2000]

actual fighters

There are no real fighters there for a long time, I do not believe in these performances. At the last Olympiad, there was exclusively ballet with gentle stroking, boxing caught up with taekwondo in terms of the degree of abomination. Probably real battles remained only in Muaythai.
As for Ali, it is also known about him that Islamists stood behind him and intimidated his rivals, terrorized families. Like a butterfly, he also never fluttered, he moved awkwardly, and used dirty tricks. Even if we assume that his fights were real, they are still against the rules, so they do not count. According to statistics, he also never was the best, he fantasized it.

 

[rupol2000]

And no matter how it was, even if we assume that these were real fights, it is still a feminine cowardly style that no one likes, and none of normal men respects such fighters of a passive style, just as they did not respect the Klitschko brothers and did not respect Khabib Nurmagomedov in MMA.
Better not to be a champion than to be famous as a champion of that sort, a marathon champion, or ass sniffing in the ring.

 

[katsteve2012]

And no matter how it was, even if we assume that these were real fights, it is still a feminine cowardly style that no one likes, and none of normal men respects such fighters of a passive style, just as they did not respect the Klitschko brothers and did not respect Khabib Nurmagomedov in MMA.
Better not to be a champion than to be famous as a champion of that sort, a marathon champion, or ass sniffing in the ring.

So you didn't particularly like Ali's style of fighting.

Obviously, it is your right to feel that way, just as others feel differently, however history still dictates that he was viewed as a highly rated champion by known experts of the sport.


Fantasy and conspiracy theory discussions tend to be circular.

 

[DGS49]

Uncomfortable fact about Ali: It is not generally known, but Cassius Clay was initially classified as "4F" for the draft. That is, "Uncle Sam DOESN'T want you!" The reason for this classification was that on the Armed Forces Qualification Test, he scored BELOW 15% - which equates to an IQ around 83. (The test had various measures in place to make sure you weren't flunking it on purpose).

But during Vietnam, someone got the bright idea to lower the minimum score to 7%, which resulted in him being reclassified as "1A." We all know how that played out.

The man was an idiot. And a whoremonger. Nothing admirable about him, except for his amazing boxing skills and chin. Having him idolized by a couple generations of Black Yoots is culturally near to being the Crime of the Century.

 

[katsteve2012]

And no matter how it was, even if we assume that these were real fights, it is still a feminine cowardly style that no one likes, and none of normal men respects such fighters of a passive style, just as they did not respect the Klitschko brotherls and did not respect Khabib Nurmagomedov in MMA.
Better not to be a champion than to be famous as a champion of that sort, a marathon champion, or ass sniffing in the ring.

Uncomfortable fact about Ali: It is not generally known, but Cassius Clay was initially classified as "4F" for the draft. That is, "Uncle Sam DOESN'T want you!" The reason for this classification was that on the Armed Forces Qualification Test, he scored BELOW 15% - which equates to an IQ around 83. (The test had various measures in place to make sure you weren't flunking it on purpose).

But during Vietnam, someone got the bright idea to lower the minimum score to 7%, which resulted in him being reclassified as "1A." We all know how that played out.

The man was an idiot. And a whoremonger. Nothing admirable about him, except for his amazing boxing skills and chin. Having him idolized by a couple generations of Black Yoots is culturally near to being the Crime of the Century.

Ali was admired for his boxing skills by most boxing fans(regardless of race) who understand the sport.


Those who judge him for anything else are entitled to their opinions.

 

[rupol2000]

Ali did not have any boxing skills, on the contrary, for those times he looked clumsy and ridiculous. I don't like this kind of boxing, but I can't not admit the excellent filigree technique of Roy Jones, he was really graceful and fast, this does not apply to Ali, he looked like a clumsy fluttering elephant.

He was needed as a propagandist of Islam and anti-Vietnamese rhetoric, so he was dragged there to give credibility, this is an ordinary cheap propaganda trick. In the meantime, it was also the propaganda of the English style of boxing in the United States.

 

[katsteve2012]

Ali did not have any boxing skills, on the contrary, for those times he looked clumsy and ridiculous. I don't like this kind of boxing, but I can't not admit the excellent filigree technique of Roy Jones, he is really graceful and fast, this does not apply to Ali, he looked like a clumsy fluttering elephant.

He was needed as a propagandist of Islam and anti-Vietnamese rhetoric, so he was dragged there to give credibility, this is an ordinary cheap propaganda trick. In the meantime, it was also the propaganda of the English style of boxing in the United States. He had no boxing skills, yet he won the heavyweight title three times and defended it 19 times against the best fighters of his era during one of the most competitive periods in heavyweight history?

Lol! So Ali won the heavyweight title 3 times, and defended it 19 times during one of the most competitive eras in the history of the heavyweight division, and he had no boxing skills?

Seriously?

Do you base your statements on facts or your "feelings"?

As far as Roy Jones goes, he was competitive until his foot speed diminished, then his many flaws were exposed after multiple knockout losses to journeyman fighters.

Ali was NEVER counted out once during his entire career.

 

[rupol2000]

Ali was generally impaired or not well-developed coordination, this can be seen in many moments, he made ridiculous movements with his hands not coordinating them with his legs and body, this is typical for beginners who are hysterical in a fight and do not have good footwork. This was noticed by some experts, but it was interpreted as a special talent Ali. If someone did not know Ali and saw his boxing, he would have decided that this is not a boxer, but a newbie who recently put on gloves.

 

[rupol2000]

In addition, he fought very dirty, hanging on opponents, grabbing the back of his head, passively standing at the ropes, all this is prohibited by the rules.

 

[rupol2000]

Lol. He had no boxing skills, yet he won the heavyweight title three times and defended it 19 times against the best fighters of his era during one of the most competitive periods in heavyweight history?

Seriously?

I have already said that most of these fights are staged. Perhaps he only really fought with Fraser. Fraser was also blackmailed, and his family threatened, he talked about it. But he probably wasn't scared. He despised Ali.

 

[rupol2000]

In the last fight in Manilla, Fraser beat Ali to death. A few seconds before he collapsed, Fraser's seconds threw away the towel, it looks like they were bought.

 

[rupol2000]

There remains the question of how Ali could not lose consciousness after missing so many blows. There is a version that he had fighting under the influence of hard drugs.

 

[katsteve2012]

In the last fight in Manilla, Fraser beat Ali to death. A few seconds before he collapsed, Fraser's seconds threw away the towel, it looks like they were bought.

Fraziers chief corner, Eddie Futch stopped the fight in Manila in the 14th round due to Frazier not being able to see, and to save him from unnecessary punishment and permanent injury, because Frazier was blindly walking into punches.

I was personally there and saw the fight.

Where were you?

 

[rupol2000]

Fraziers corner stopped the fight in Manila in the 14th round due to Frazier not being able to see, and to save him from unnecessary punishment.

I was personally there and saw the fight.

Where were you?

Yes, this is the official version, but it contradicts with the fact that Fraser brutally beat Ali, and Ali barely stood on his feet. If Fraser had not seen him, he would have said so himself.

 

[katsteve2012]

I have already said that most of these fights are staged. Perhaps he only really fought with Fraser. Fraser was also blackmailed, and his family threatened, he talked about it. But he probably wasn't scared. He despised Ali.

Yes, this is the official version, but it contradicts with the fact that Fraser brutally beat Ali, and Ali barely stood on his feet. If Fraser had not seen him, he would have said so himself.

It was a competitive match until the 11th round, which is when Ali started to land punches that Frazier could not see coming, due to his eyes closing from the punishment that he was taking.

The "official version" was the version that I saw right there at ringside, and is not based on any of the conspiracy theories that you are speaking of.

 

[katsteve2012]

I have already said that most of these fights are staged. Perhaps he only really fought with Fraser. Fraser was also blackmailed, and his family threatened, he talked about it. But he probably wasn't scared. He despised Ali.

Just saying the fights were "staged" and that Frazier was "blackmailed" versus providing any documented proof of this being true, are vastly different.

 

[rupol2000]

It was a competitive match until the 11th round, which is when Ali started to land punches that Frazier could not see coming, due to his eyes closing from the punishment that he was taking.

The "official version" was the version that I saw right there at ringside, and is not based on any of the conspiracy theories that you are speaking of.

I did not see any blindness of Fraser, I saw how the victory that was in his hands was taken away from him
And I saw Fraser beat helpless Ali like a bag of shit.

 

[katsteve2012]

I did not see any blindness of Fraser, I saw how the victory that was in his hands was taken away from him
And I saw Fraser beat helpless Ali like a bag of shit.

If you didn't see that Fraziers eyes were nearly swollen shut and that he was taking punches that he couldn't see coming, then you either did not see the fight, or were not paying attention.

 

[rupol2000]

Just saying the fights were "staged" versus providing any documented proof of this to be true, and are vastly different.

And who has already proved that the panthom blow really was there?

 

[rupol2000]

providing

It is easy to prove at least that Ali was not disqualified for constant violations of the rules, including trashtalk and insults during the fight, which are also prohibited. Consequently, his victories are not valid de facto.