MSNBC Panel: Little Hope’ Zimmerman Will Be Convi

[hjmick]

If this case is such an open and shut case like these liberals on this board think it is, why is the prosecuting attorney having such a rough time with his own witnesses?
I would think that if Zimmerman was so guilty beyond a shadow of doubt like these libs think, he would have the defense in catchup mode, this isn't even close to what is happening.

Mostly because his witnesses are the officials who fucked up this investigation to start with.

The ones who saw a dead kid lying with a smoking hole in him and said, "Nope, nothing to see here!"

I also don't think the defense is doing as nearly an impressive job as you think they are.

From what I can tell they don't have to, the prosecution and their witnesses seem to be doing all the work for them...

 

[birddog]

To all those who might know - an honest question - why is it almost a given that an African American is always against guns and 2nd Amendment? I have encountered it many times in real life - it is very rare as a worldview to be a Second Amendment supporter and an African American the same time.
One of my coworkers actually said - it is what my Mom and Grandma taught me always - stay away from guns, they are evil. Seems like culturally connected belief.

Anybody knows WHY?

Many law-abiding blacks are in favor of the Second Amendment IMHO. It's just that a great number of blacks are not law-abiding, or have close family members that are not. Of course, criminals can always get guns on the street corner, and having an unarmed citizenry helps their criminal endeavors.

I'm not being racist at all, just honest.

 

[NLT]

No problem. After the Race Riots, we'll just file Federal Civil Rights charges.

Another lefty hoping for race riots. How many kids do you want killed to make your point?

I think the question is, how many innocent bystanders do you want killed to satisfy your gun fetish.

I think that the jury should find this guy guilty. But if people rioted over Rodney King (who really was a thug and didn't actually die), what do you think they are going to do after a child-murderer is given a pass?

An All-White jury finds a white guy innocent of shooting an unarmed black child and lying about it.

Sorry, man, can't see how that wouldn't make people angry, which I suspect is the point.

First he wasnt a child, the fact that you continue to call him one shows your bias.

I love it when Liberal progressives are so concerned with children,,,,until they want to abort them.

 

[JoeB131]

[

First he wasnt a child, the fact that you continue to call him one shows your bias.

I love it when Liberal progressives are so concerned with children,,,,until they want to abort them.

Fetuses aren't children.

Never heard a woman who had an abortion ever refer to it as a child or a baby.

It was "that thing I need to take care of".

Trayvon was someone's child. He wasn't breaking any laws, he was unarmed, he was a minor and he did nothing to deserve being shot in the middle of the street by a cop wannabe.

 

[Vox]

[

First he wasnt a child, the fact that you continue to call him one shows your bias.

I love it when Liberal progressives are so concerned with children,,,,until they want to abort them.

Fetuses aren't children.

Never heard a woman who had an abortion ever refer to it as a child or a baby.

It was "that thing I need to take care of".

Trayvon was someone's child. He wasn't breaking any laws, he was unarmed, he was a minor and he did nothing to deserve being shot in the middle of the street by a cop wannabe.

yes, they are.
not less than a 17 yo 6 ft athlete is.

 

[JoeB131]

[

First he wasnt a child, the fact that you continue to call him one shows your bias.

I love it when Liberal progressives are so concerned with children,,,,until they want to abort them.

Fetuses aren't children.

Never heard a woman who had an abortion ever refer to it as a child or a baby.

It was "that thing I need to take care of".

Trayvon was someone's child. He wasn't breaking any laws, he was unarmed, he was a minor and he did nothing to deserve being shot in the middle of the street by a cop wannabe.

yes, they are.
not less than a 17 yo 6 ft athlete is.

No, they aren't.

Not in the law. Not in medical science. Not even in the bible.

Check out Exodus 21:22-23. Fetuses weren't considered worth more than a fine.

 

[Vox]

Fetuses aren't children.

Never heard a woman who had an abortion ever refer to it as a child or a baby.

It was "that thing I need to take care of".

Trayvon was someone's child. He wasn't breaking any laws, he was unarmed, he was a minor and he did nothing to deserve being shot in the middle of the street by a cop wannabe.

yes, they are.
not less than a 17 yo 6 ft athlete is.

No, they aren't.

Not in the law. Not in medical science. Not even in the bible.

Check out Exodus 21:22-23. Fetuses weren't considered worth more than a fine.

the law is ambiguous - in many states assault against a pregnant woman resulting in a death of the baby is charged as murder, but yes, in medical science they ARE children.
they are even being operated on and given anesthesia for those operations - since as children they need to be protected from pain

I do not care what it was in exodus - children and women at that time were worth not more than a fine as well. Want to return to that time?

 

[mudwhistle]

To all those who might know - an honest question - why is it almost a given that an African American is always against guns and 2nd Amendment? I have encountered it many times in real life - it is very rare as a worldview to be a Second Amendment supporter and an African American the same time.
One of my coworkers actually said - it is what my Mom and Grandma taught me always - stay away from guns, they are evil. Seems like culturally connected belief.

Anybody knows WHY?

Blacks don't like getting shot in the ass when they're going out your window with your TV.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

If this case is such an open and shut case like these liberals on this board think it is, why is the prosecuting attorney having such a rough time with his own witnesses?
I would think that if Zimmerman was so guilty beyond a shadow of doubt like these libs think, he would have the defense in catchup mode, this isn't even close to what is happening.

Mostly because his witnesses are the officials who fucked up this investigation to start with.

The ones who saw a dead kid lying with a smoking hole in him and said, "Nope, nothing to see here!"

I also don't think the defense is doing as nearly an impressive job as you think they are.

I haven't watched much of it on HLN, however what I have seen appears to be going in the favor of the Defense. Yeah, sure the 9mm hole in Martin was a final act. Zimmerman contends that after he was assaulted and his head was pounded into the concrete at least twice, fearing for his life, he shot Martin. Case closed. Would this discussion have been different if Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete walk?

 

[JoeB131]

[

I haven't watched much of it on HLN, however what I have seen appears to be going in the favor of the Defense. Yeah, sure the 9mm hole in Martin was a final act. Zimmerman contends that after he was assaulted and his head was pounded into the concrete at least twice, fearing for his life, he shot Martin. Case closed. Would this discussion have been different if Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete walk?

Except that if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete,

why was there none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon, on Trayvon's clothes, or on the sidewalk.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I haven't watched much of it on HLN, however what I have seen appears to be going in the favor of the Defense. Yeah, sure the 9mm hole in Martin was a final act. Zimmerman contends that after he was assaulted and his head was pounded into the concrete at least twice, fearing for his life, he shot Martin. Case closed. Would this discussion have been different if Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete walk?

Except that if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete,

why was there none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon, on Trayvon's clothes, or on the sidewalk.

Laws of gravity and it was raining. Next?

It was only a drizzle, and again, to hear Zimmerman tell it, Trayvon was going for his gun, poundnig his head into the sidewalk AND restraining both his arms. (Which means Trayvon would need more arms than a Hindu Diety, but I digress.)

Yet all that happens, and none of Zimmerman's blood gets on his clothes or under his fingernails?

 

[Meister]

yes, they are.
not less than a 17 yo 6 ft athlete is.

No, they aren't.

Not in the law. Not in medical science. Not even in the bible.

Check out Exodus 21:22-23. Fetuses weren't considered worth more than a fine.

the law is ambiguous - in many states assault against a pregnant woman resulting in a death of the baby is charged as murder, but yes, in medical science they ARE children.
they are even being operated on and given anesthesia for those operations - since as children they need to be protected from pain

I do not care what it was in exodus - children and women at that time were worth not more than a fine as well. Want to return to that time?

Joe hasn't a clue on what he speaks of. He is no more than a goofball and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Exodus 21:22-25....

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Joe is the town idiot and should be ashamed for lying about the Bible like he did.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Joe hasn't a clue on what he speaks of. He is no more than a goofball and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Exodus 21:22-24....

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Joe is the town idiot and should be ashamed for lying about the Bible like he did.

I'm curious for what translation you used for that, because most of them interepret it the way I do.


American Standard Version

And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Bible in Basic English

If men, while fighting, do damage to a woman with child, causing the loss of the child, but no other evil comes to her, the man will have to make payment up to the amount fixed by her husband, in agreement with the decision of the judges.

Common English Bible

When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage but no other injury occurs, then the guilty party will be fined what the woman's husband demands, as negotiated with the judges.

Complete Jewish Bible

"If people are fighting with each other and happen to hurt a pregnant woman so badly that her unborn child dies, then, even if no other harm follows, he must be fined. He must pay the amount set by the woman's husband and confirmed by judges.

Douay-Rheims

If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman’s husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award.

Good News Translation

"If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges.

Wycliffe

If men chide, and a man smiteth a woman with child, and soothly he maketh the child dead-born, but the woman liveth over that smiting, he shall be subject to the harm (he shall be subject to a fine), as much as the woman's husband asketh (for), and as the judges deem (appropriate).


A bit of a reality check. Back in the Bronze Age, before they had NICU's and stuff like that, premature births usually didn't survive.

Exodus 21:22 If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman - Online Bible Study Tools

 

[Vox]

[

I haven't watched much of it on HLN, however what I have seen appears to be going in the favor of the Defense. Yeah, sure the 9mm hole in Martin was a final act. Zimmerman contends that after he was assaulted and his head was pounded into the concrete at least twice, fearing for his life, he shot Martin. Case closed. Would this discussion have been different if Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete walk?

Except that if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete,

why was there none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon, on Trayvon's clothes, or on the sidewalk.

because it was raining, duh

and if somebody is bleeding from his head behind being slammed to the concrete, there is little chance the person on the top is going to be contaminated with blood, unless the beating goes a longer time. The fight was about 3 minutes, or less, that is not enough time even to start profuse bleeding, less to contaminate the attacker.

The absence of blood on T does not prove he was not beating Z to the concrete.

 

[JoeB131]

In short, serious injury refers to the woman, not the fetus.

The reality is, babies under one month old were not counted in censuses of the people. Even that was considered too iffy a proposition when you had an infant mortality rate of upward of 50%.

 

[Vox]

In short, serious injury refers to the woman, not the fetus.

The reality is, babies under one month old were not counted in censuses of the people. Even that was considered too iffy a proposition when you had an infant mortality rate of upward of 50%.

women weren't counted as human either.

want to return to that times?

 

[JoeB131]

[quo

Except that if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete,

why was there none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon, on Trayvon's clothes, or on the sidewalk.

because it was raining, duh

and if somebody is bleeding from his head behind being slammed to the concrete, there is little chance the person on the top is going to be contaminated with blood, unless the beating goes a longer time. The fight was about 3 minutes, or less, that is not enough time even to start profuse bleeding, less to contaminate the attacker.

The absence of blood on T does not prove he was not beating Z to the concrete.

Yeah, if you have a very vivid imagination.

Two men are grappling, blood is being spilled, you'd expect to see tissue under fingernails and blood on clothing. And that stuff doesn't come out.

 

[JoeB131]

Just for a fun mashup!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlpAW848BCA&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLC767D1EB39788E5B]CSI: Old Testament - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Vox]

[quo

Except that if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete,

why was there none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon, on Trayvon's clothes, or on the sidewalk.

because it was raining, duh

and if somebody is bleeding from his head behind being slammed to the concrete, there is little chance the person on the top is going to be contaminated with blood, unless the beating goes a longer time. The fight was about 3 minutes, or less, that is not enough time even to start profuse bleeding, less to contaminate the attacker.

The absence of blood on T does not prove he was not beating Z to the concrete.

Yeah, if you have a very vivid imagination.

Two men are grappling, blood is being spilled, you'd expect to see tissue under fingernails and blood on clothing. And that stuff doesn't come out.

no, I simply know what I am talking about, contrary to you. Forensics and stuff like that

 

[JoeB131]

because it was raining, duh

and if somebody is bleeding from his head behind being slammed to the concrete, there is little chance the person on the top is going to be contaminated with blood, unless the beating goes a longer time. The fight was about 3 minutes, or less, that is not enough time even to start profuse bleeding, less to contaminate the attacker.

The absence of blood on T does not prove he was not beating Z to the concrete.

Yeah, if you have a very vivid imagination.

Two men are grappling, blood is being spilled, you'd expect to see tissue under fingernails and blood on clothing. And that stuff doesn't come out.

no, I simply know what I am talking about, contrary to you. Forensics and stuff like that

The Forenics folks all testified for the prosecution...

But I'm sure you've seen a bunch of episodes of CSI, so that makes you an expert.