Mouse Homosexuality Linked to Genes

[Dante]

Not a single gene, but if enough of them get turned from boy to girl (and you'd started building boy parts), the result will be a dude with a lot of estrogen and other traits.

Incidentally, the brain of a male straight and a male gay are very different. The gay males' brain is wired like a female straights brain.

at birth or later? I heard environment and behavior shapes much that is being measured.

there are switches and makers in an infant's genetic make up that are open -- not set in stone.

think: predispositions to specific diseases that run in a family.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This does not describe a process, it is simply an assumption that something is not happening, namely that information is not being passed between proteins, or from protein to nucleic acid. As it is impossible to prove that something never happens, this is not a theory, nor is it a hypothesis, it is a dogma, a belief. It may someday be dis-proven, but it will never be proven.

What? Proving that something doesn't happen is what a null hypothesis is for.

You're statements on this thread are just bizarre. As I said, you are either being deliberately obtuse or are just ignorant of cell biology if you claim that the process in which proteins are made is not well understood down to the nucleic acids that code for the amino acids that make the proteins.

That is not even close to being true, and you accuse me of lying.

A null hypothesis is used to prove, using statistics, that something that is actually happening is caused by something else. This is how the link between smoking and cancer was proven. It cannot prove that something will not happen, ever. The only way to prove that something will never happen is wait forever and observe all possible events. In other words, a scientist would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to prove something will never happen, and we would have to be the same to accept his proof as valid. If that ever happens it will not be science.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dogma means a belief that is not based on facts, and this certainly qualifies, as the Wiki article you linked to spells out. As of now no one understands exactly how genes produce anything, they just know that it happens. The central dogma of biology is that it occurs in the way you described, but it has not been proven.

Seriously, how many more patently false statements are you going to make about genetics in this thread?

We don't know how "genes" produce proteins? Really? We can't sequence DNA and tell which proteins will be produced? Really?

Ever hear of PCR or North,South, and/or West Blotting?

Please describe how genes provide for a person to be born with blonde hair and become an adult with brown hair. Document all possible variables, and accurately chart the entire process.

Has anyone found a prion yet? Last time I looked prions were used to describe certain diseases and their effect on genes, but no one has actually found one, and proven how it works. Your insistence that genetics is advanced enough to accurately describe everything that happens is disingenuous. We will get there someday, but we are no there yet.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ever hear of PCR or North,South, and/or West Blotting?

You're going to give him a brain aneurysm...QW is clearly making this up as he goes along.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around the whole "That's an enzyme, it has nothing to do with genetics" line.

Lesch?Nyhan syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lesch–Nyhan syndrome (LNS), also known as Nyhan's syndrome, Kelley-Seegmiller syndrome and Juvenile gout[1]:546, is a rare inherited disorder caused by a deficiency of the enzyme hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyltransferase (HGPRT), produced by mutations in the HPRT gene.

Yeah, clearly the two aren't linked whatsoever.

I do not deny a link between them, or even causality. I just differentiate between the genetic portion of the disease and the biochemical one. It is possible to have all the genetic markers needed to develop LNS and not develop a severe case of LNS. Indeed, since it is recessive and passed on through the mother I could argue that most women who have the genetic traits will never develop LNS.

 

[AllieBaba]

Oooh...QW said "prion".

Prions are bitchin.

 

[AllieBaba]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sexual orientation cannot be tied to any one factor, but evidence supports the conclusion that environment has a greater impact than genes.

Most who possess a Y chromosome have a sexual attraction to to females. Most who do not, or whose Y chromosome is not active, have a sexual attraction to males.

This is true across species.

The only logical conclusion is that genetics are a dominant factor in sexuality and sexual preference.

You know better than that.

Shame on you.

 

[Samson]

And just WHY are we looking at this gene? For the purpose of what?

Could it be because we want to try and fix homosexuals?

It doesn't take much of a leap to guess where all of this could be going. Gene therapy is in our futures. Is fixing the gay gene the long term goal?

No.

The long term goal is making Queers as socially acceptable as a Dwarves.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quick question for you people.....

Remember the African runner who ended up losing her medal? They thought she was on performance enhancers, as her testosterone levels were HUGE!

They then tested her genetically and found out that she's 60 percent male, the only thing female about her was her private parts.

Another example.........

Whenever someone goes to the sex change clinic, what is one of the first things they do? That's right......give them hormones of the gender that they want to become, resulting in dudes growing breasts and chicks getting facial hair.

What controls the hormones in the human body? That's right.....the glands that release them.

What causes those glands to form and find their right place? That's right......the DNA.

Yes, homosexuality is genetic, there are many places where it's been proven.

But, because we're more complicated physically than mice, we have more genes that determine how we're going to find a mate in life when we mature.

And the reason it scares all the homophobes? Most of 'em are closeted and are afraid that maybe they're really gay, which is why they react with such hate and fear to gays.

Straight males who are comfortable in their sexuality and know their sexual identity are RARELY ever homophobic.

Why? They know better, the homophobes are still wondering.

You were doing so well until you tried to insist that it has been proven that homosexuality is genetic in origin. This is one particualr study that I like to use to challenge that.

ScienceDirect - Journal of Theoretical Biology : Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the relation between older brothers and homosexuality in men

It seems that the more older brothers a male has, the more likely he is to be homosexual. How is that explained by genetics?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Homosexuality Linked to Genetics in Mice - TIME NewsFeed

Another of science's epic debates has finally been resolved: it turns out that homosexuality is genetic. (In mice, at least.)

According to a study published in the BioMed Central Genetics journalthis month, researchers from the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology were able to prove a link between genetics and sexual preference in female mice.

The procedure involved removing the females' (conveniently-abbreviated) FucM genes, which caused their brains to be masculinized—essentially turning the mice into lesbians. Researchers reported that after the gene was removed the mice “exhibited a masculine behavior, such as mounting to a normal female partner as well as showing a preference to female urine.”

The peer-reviewed article can be found here.

While any researcher can tell you that mouse studies never directly apply to humans, this does prove that homosexuality can be induced by genetic manipulation of mammals.



To think, a simple genetic deletion can cause homosexuality in mice...fascinating.

So what relevance does this have to a search for homosexuality gene in humans? Well, technically none. The deletion of the FucM gene enabled the females' brains to extra estrogen exposure, but human brains are masculinized by progesterone.

Read more: Homosexuality Linked to Genetics in Mice - TIME NewsFeed

---

this is like one of those cure for cancer or cure for aids stories that get misinterpreted in headlines in the mainstream media.'

there is no gene in the mice that made them homosexual. the study deals with genes that affect sexual preferences...I am surprised that Smeagle being a science type would miss all the nuance and 'stuff' .........

prison causes homosexual attraction too.

I think Time's editorial policy is to sensationalize science stories about homosexuality and AIDS in the hopes of boosting their sales.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not a single gene, but if enough of them get turned from boy to girl (and you'd started building boy parts), the result will be a dude with a lot of estrogen and other traits.

Incidentally, the brain of a male straight and a male gay are very different. The gay males' brain is wired like a female straights brain.

That brain study is faulty. Are the brains that way from birth, or are they that way because of the homosexuality.

 

[AllieBaba]

And just WHY are we looking at this gene? For the purpose of what?

Could it be because we want to try and fix homosexuals?

It doesn't take much of a leap to guess where all of this could be going. Gene therapy is in our futures. Is fixing the gay gene the long term goal?

No.

The long term goal is making Queers as socially acceptable as a Dwarves.

The correct term is "little people".

Sheesh, don't you ever watch the many little people reality shows?

There are a lot of them. It's kinda freaky.

I like Pit Boss.

Little People, Big World is good, too.

And there are the Little Chocolatiers...they're pretty cool.

And the Little Couple, they're cute. She's a doctor now! He obviously married up, but he treats her well....

 

[Samson]

And just WHY are we looking at this gene? For the purpose of what?

Could it be because we want to try and fix homosexuals?

It doesn't take much of a leap to guess where all of this could be going. Gene therapy is in our futures. Is fixing the gay gene the long term goal?

No.

The long term goal is making Queers as socially acceptable as a Dwarves.

The correct term is "little people".

Sheesh, don't you ever watch the many little people reality shows?

There are a lot of them. It's kinda freaky.

I like Pit Boss.

Little People, Big World is good, too.

And there are the Little Chocolatiers...they're pretty cool.

And the Little Couple, they're cute. She's a doctor now! He obviously married up, but he treats her well....

Queers and Dwarves thrive in the Entertainment Business.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

See.......that's the problem........everyone on the Christian side (and mostly devoid of science) are looking for a single gene that causes it.

It's not that........it's more like looking Nordic, you've got to have blonde hair, blue eyes, certain other types of features, etc.

Get one of 'em wrong (brown hair and green eyes), you're no longer Nordic, which means there is more than 1 gene that causes you to look that way.

Same thing with homosexuality, there isn't just 1 gene, but a specific set of them that contributes to their behavior.

We just haven't investigated the genome enough to understand it.

But......like I said, the homophobes are gonna fight this tooth and nail.

Science is actually fighting this, and some homophobes are capitalizing on the science backing them up. The part that gets me is that people that claim they are comfortable with homosexuality insist that no one has a choice in their behavior. It does not matter to me what people choose to do in private, or even in public, as long as they do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Homosexuality only offends some people, their rights are not violated, so homosexuals can do whatever they want, as far as I am concerned.

Twin studies conclusively prove that homosexuality is not genetic. A portion of it might be genetic, but that is clearly not the only factor. Every previous study that tried to link homosexuality to a particular gene was flawed when it came to apply it to humans. We have no idea what causes a person to be homosexual, and the answer will probably not come anytime soon. It does not matter though, because they are still humans.

 

[hortysir]

So don't put the mice in jeans, and they won't turn gay....

How hard is that?

 

[Samson]

So don't put the mice in jeans, and they won't turn gay....

How hard is that?

 

[hortysir]

So don't put the mice in jeans, and they won't turn gay....

How hard is that?

I've searched, in vain, for a pic of a mouse wearing jeans

 

[Samson]

I've searched, in vain, for a pic of a mouse wearing jeans

Searching for "Gay Mouse" can be hazardous

 

[JBeukema]

Has anyone found a prion yet?

Prion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JBeukema]

Sexual orientation cannot be tied to any one factor, but evidence supports the conclusion that environment has a greater impact than genes.

Most who possess a Y chromosome have a sexual attraction to to females. Most who do not, or whose Y chromosome is not active, have a sexual attraction to males.

This is true across species.

The only logical conclusion is that genetics are a dominant factor in sexuality and sexual preference.

You know better than that.

Shame on you.

So you're saying the overwhelming prevalence of heterosexuality has nothing to do traits normally possessed by the different sexes as determined by their sex?