Mormons?

[LittleNipper]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

I would have to disagree. As a Christian, I may attend a variety of Christian churches who have a variety of service styles and decor --- and as long as the Gospel is preached I do not feel that I've broken any Bible regulations. However, I must assume that Latter Day Saints are only supposed to attend The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints. And in fact other "Christian" outsiders are excluded from many, if not most special ceremonies including marriages and baptisms for the dead. And I know of NOWHERE in the history of Judaism and Christianity where this was the case. Though the Jews did have the Holy of Holies -------- remember GOD HIMSELF ripped the curtain apart from top to bottom (ending any segregated separation the Mormons have re-embraced for themselves).

 

[Gracie]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am quite pleased how this thread has progressed...even with those not of the Mormon faith. I'm impressed. Thank you ALL for your participation and I hope it continues because I am learning A LOT, regardless of whether I change my mind (I won't), but it sure helps understanding differing faiths.

 

[LittleNipper]

Why should this bother you? Atheistic sites exist to slander Christianity.

They have the right to express their opinions, however ignorant and misguided they might be.

I would not look to an openly atheistic site for information about what Christians believe.

If I want to know what Catholics believe, I'll look to a Catholic source.

If I want to know what Lutherans believe, I'll look to a Lutheran source.

Why, if you want to know what we Mormons believe, would you look to a site that openly exists for the purpose of spreading lies about us? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

If I was Lutheran, I would want to understand why a former Lutheran may have left that church. AND I have visited Atheistic sites to see what they believe and how they may be wrong or even right. You would have to admit that Mormons are very hesitant when it comes to Joseph Smith's errors of judgment. And I've personally seen depictions of Mr. Smith studying the golden plates to translate them (printed by Mormons)----- when in fact he looked in his hat at his seer stones (not quite so sophisticated). So which is the TRUTH?

 

[Meriweather]

The Protestant Reformation occurred as more and more individuals began to read the Bible for themselves without having it explained to them according to Roman Catholic doctrine. As a result Purgatory, Transubstantiation (in connection to the Mass), The Immaculate Conception (surrounding the birth of MARY),

The Reformation occurred during the 1500-1600s. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not adopted until 1854, well after the Reformation.

 

[BS Filter]

It was answered in the post

Yes, I read the part about being a God over your own kingdom. I'm just making sure I fully understand your beliefs. So will you go to a planet and be born and become a man and die for the sins of the people who live there?

The faithful will inherit the earth. We don't need to go to another planet. This earth will be changed and inherit a celestial glory. Once a person is resurrected, you can never die again. It would be impossible for us to go and become a savior and suffer death again.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:17–20
Doctrine and Covenants

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;

20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

Alma 11:45
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.

Is the Book of mormon and Doctrines and Covenants superior, lower or equal to the Holy Bible in authority?

In authority, they all originated from the inspiration of God through his chosen servants. So they would all be equal. However, the bible has been translated into various languages and we do say in our Articles of Faith that we do believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

I've heard that before. Sounds like the Bible is considered the lesser if there is a contradiction.
Question. Can anyone who believes in the Jesus of the Bible, has faith in Him alone, can they receive eternal life with God?

 

[BS Filter]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

 

[MadChemist]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

 

[Meriweather]

If I was a Lutheran, I would want to understand why a former Lutheran may have left that church. AND I have visited Atheistic sites to see what they believe and how they may be wrong or even right.

I've done the same. My assessment (as a whole) no matter who leaves what, the reasoning is often the same. Let's start with the reality that any faith community can only take the individual so far--they are responsible for guiding a community. There is so much information, so much history, so much detail. The Church can only paint a broad pictures, partly because they have such a large age group and large range of understanding to teach.

In the Interior Castle St. Theresa of Avila used the analogy of a castle with seven levels and countless rooms on each level. She noted Church communities had to spend so much time getting people into the foyer and first levels there just were not enough ministers to bring people further. That fell back onto the individual him or herself.

When people cannot make sense of some of what they are told, or are befuddled by (seemingly) inconsistencies, they look for reasons to give up the struggle and leave. The alternate would be to spend even more time they feel is not worthwhile to pursue answers to their questions on their own. It is easy enough to identify the point where someone stops educating themselves about their faith and makes that decision to leave.

It is often more interesting to investigate why people stay.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I would have to disagree. As a Christian, I may attend a variety of Christian churches who have a variety of service styles and decor --- and as long as the Gospel is preached I do not feel that I've broken any Bible regulations. However, I must assume that Latter Day Saints are only supposed to attend The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints. And in fact other "Christian" outsiders are excluded from many, if not most special ceremonies including marriages and baptisms for the dead. And I know of NOWHERE in the history of Judaism and Christianity where this was the case. Though the Jews did have the Holy of Holies -------- remember GOD HIMSELF ripped the curtain apart from top to bottom (ending any segregated separation the Mormons have re-embraced for themselves).

Anyone is welcome to attend our general church services, and as far as I know, there is no prohibition against any of us attending services at other churches, at least not once in a while. If you happen to be fortunate enough to live somewhere where you do not have a corrupt subhuman fragment of solid digestive waste as a Governor or Mayor who has illegally stripped your freedoms of religion and assembly under the guise of the absurd #CoronaHoax2020, then you may certainly feel free to locate one of our meetinghouse in your area, and attend a Sacrament Meeting there. I can pretty much guarantee that you will find yourself welcome, there. No one will throw you out, or give you a hard time for not being a member.

 

[BS Filter]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

 

[MadChemist]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

There are three parables in Matthew 25.

What do you think they discuss.

Do you believe that the five foolish virgins were predestined to be foolish virgins.

 

[onefour1]

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Why would Jesus call us gods if there is only one God?

Another typical Mormon doctrine. Notice the small case "g". Where is that Scripture from?

That's from the same KJV Bible that you surely use. With the same use of capitals and lower case as what onefour1 quoted. I just googled to verify that it is not just our edition, but all editions of the KJV that make that use of upper and lower cases, and even at least one or two other non-KJV versions.

What is it that you are trying to dispute, here? It seems that any disagreement on your part is with the Bible itself, or at least with the KJV.

Mormonism doesn't rightly divide the Word. Read this.

Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34: Ye are Gods – Mormonism Research Ministry

www.mrm.org

The breaking of the word of God by anti-mormons, which you often quote, hold no weight with the faithful. Jesus said:

John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

In other words, it means what it means and it is in this context in which Jesus used it to mean "gods".

So you believe that Scripture is saying that YOU can become God. Is that correct?

The scripture is saying exactly what it is saying, "I said ye are gods". In this context, Jesus is telling us that we are gods. But what does he mean by this? We believe that we (those of us on this earth) are the literal offspring of God our Heavenly Father.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

We believe that Gods beget gods. As his literal children, God refers to us as gods. Not that we rule over God's kingdom or that others on this earth should look to us as a god whom they should worship but that we are of the same species as God our Heavenly Father.

We believe that we, before coming to this earth, lived with God as spirits and are his literal offspring in spirit. This is why he is our Father in Heaven. There was a war in heaven before we all came to this earth where part of the children of God rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven into this earth. They became the devil and his angels. The rest of God's children sided with our Father and we were allowed to come to this earth and receive bodies of flesh and bones.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Consider this great scene in heaven where Michael and his angels fought against the devil and his angels. Who were Michael and angels? How does Michael and his angels overcome the devil and his angels? Verse 11 tells us. They overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. They also loved not their lives unto the death. Who is it that needs the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan? Is it not we who are on the earth? It says that those who overcome love not their lives unto the death. Who, other than we mortals, need Jesus' blood to overcome the devil and who suffer death. Is it not we who were there with Michael as his angels in the premortal existence who fought against the dragon? Are we not now in need of the blood of the Lamb? These verses are evidence that we lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth and all who have received bodies on this earth were faithful and sided with God in the war of heaven. You were there! You are a literal child of our Father in heaven. You are a god. This why Jesus refers to the Father's children as gods.

Job 38:3-7
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Yes it is true that we do believe that among the very faithful of God's children that they can become like him in all respects.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is the desire of God that we become like him. Would the Lord give us a commandment to become as perfect as our Father in heaven if it was not something that is possible?

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We believe that the verses In Isaiah which refers to there being only one God and beside Him there is no God is in reference to this world and that on this earth we worship none other but Him. He is the true God of this world and there are no other Gods that apply to us on this earth whom we should worship. We shouldn't worship any of the children of God other than Jesus Christ whom the father has sent. The rest of us are gods in the sense that we are the children of God and are of the same species, but we are not to be considered as God (with a capital G). God is God and we are his and are to worship him and him alone. However, we do believe that we can become perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect. We believe that in the eternities if faithful, we too can become a father or mother of our own spirit children and have our own kingdoms which will add to the glory of our Father in Heaven. Just as in this world, we grow up and become parents of our own children, we believe this is an eternal pattern for the faithful in eternity. We believe we can grow up to become like our Father and Mother in heaven. If you become one with the Father, you will never oppose the will of the Father.

The Apostle Paul taught:

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here the Apostle Paul is speaking of eating things that are offered to idols and says that "Idols are nothing in the world and that there is none other God but one." Then Paul clarifies that there be gods many, and lords many but that to us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Here Paul clarifies that there are gods many and lords many, but for us here on earth there is but one God. Just as on earth there are father and mothers many but to each of us there is but one father and mother from whom we are born and belong to. For sure, on earth, there be those that are called gods and we know this because Jesus himself has called us gods. There will be some of us who go to heaven and thus we see that there are those also in heaven who are called gods. But we do not worship them but only the God to whom we belong, our Father in heaven.

When a believer acts according to GOD's will and behaves as GOD desires the believer to behave, then he becomes GOD's ambassador and in so doing becomes a god ---- because that one is accomplishing GOD's goals on GOD's behalf. Man is a created being. GOD was always and is forever. We have a beginning. As for there being many gods, that is so when ANYTHING becomes the focus of one's attention. Money becomes a god for one who wants more of it. Power becomes a god for one desiring to control and manipulate others. And a prophet becomes a god for those who embrace that individual's teachings at the expense of the TRUE Gospel of CHRIST. The Word clarifies the Word and exposes the falsehood of any other testament. One doesn't come to the FATHER by a burning in one's bosom. One comes to the FATHER through prayer and supplication in FAITH alone in the MESSIAH JESUS. The TRUE Word was never hid under a bushel. It sits high on a candle stand where it's light does the best work to illuminate the hearts of fallen men with GOD's salvation.

We believe that mankind's bodies were created originally from the dust of the earth and had their beginning at that time, however, we do not believe that the spirit of man had its beginning at that time but were the literal offspring of God the Father in the premortal world. There is alot of evidence of this in the Bible. A further belief of the church, however, is that before being born as spirit children of the Father, we existed eternally as intelligence which was never created or made but was as self-existent as God himself.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

In the above verse, Abraham calls the intelligences spirits.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Genesis 3:19
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The interesting thing about the above verse is that the disciples believed that the man could have sinned before being born. The Lord doesn't teach against this thought but simply gives them the true reason for the man's blindness.

Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Here the saints at Ephesus are told they were chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[BS Filter]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

There are three parables in Matthew 25.

What do you think they discuss.

Do you believe that the five foolish virgins were predestined to be foolish virgins.

I don't know. I don't think predestination is the point. I believe the Scriptures that clearly say I am saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[BS Filter]

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Why would Jesus call us gods if there is only one God?

Another typical Mormon doctrine. Notice the small case "g". Where is that Scripture from?

That's from the same KJV Bible that you surely use. With the same use of capitals and lower case as what onefour1 quoted. I just googled to verify that it is not just our edition, but all editions of the KJV that make that use of upper and lower cases, and even at least one or two other non-KJV versions.

What is it that you are trying to dispute, here? It seems that any disagreement on your part is with the Bible itself, or at least with the KJV.

Mormonism doesn't rightly divide the Word. Read this.

Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34: Ye are Gods – Mormonism Research Ministry

www.mrm.org

The breaking of the word of God by anti-mormons, which you often quote, hold no weight with the faithful. Jesus said:

John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

In other words, it means what it means and it is in this context in which Jesus used it to mean "gods".

So you believe that Scripture is saying that YOU can become God. Is that correct?

The scripture is saying exactly what it is saying, "I said ye are gods". In this context, Jesus is telling us that we are gods. But what does he mean by this? We believe that we (those of us on this earth) are the literal offspring of God our Heavenly Father.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

We believe that Gods beget gods. As his literal children, God refers to us as gods. Not that we rule over God's kingdom or that others on this earth should look to us as a god whom they should worship but that we are of the same species as God our Heavenly Father.

We believe that we, before coming to this earth, lived with God as spirits and are his literal offspring in spirit. This is why he is our Father in Heaven. There was a war in heaven before we all came to this earth where part of the children of God rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven into this earth. They became the devil and his angels. The rest of God's children sided with our Father and we were allowed to come to this earth and receive bodies of flesh and bones.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Consider this great scene in heaven where Michael and his angels fought against the devil and his angels. Who were Michael and angels? How does Michael and his angels overcome the devil and his angels? Verse 11 tells us. They overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony. They also loved not their lives unto the death. Who is it that needs the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan? Is it not we who are on the earth? It says that those who overcome love not their lives unto the death. Who, other than we mortals, need Jesus' blood to overcome the devil and who suffer death. Is it not we who were there with Michael as his angels in the premortal existence who fought against the dragon? Are we not now in need of the blood of the Lamb? These verses are evidence that we lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth and all who have received bodies on this earth were faithful and sided with God in the war of heaven. You were there! You are a literal child of our Father in heaven. You are a god. This why Jesus refers to the Father's children as gods.

Job 38:3-7
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Yes it is true that we do believe that among the very faithful of God's children that they can become like him in all respects.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is the desire of God that we become like him. Would the Lord give us a commandment to become as perfect as our Father in heaven if it was not something that is possible?

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We believe that the verses In Isaiah which refers to there being only one God and beside Him there is no God is in reference to this world and that on this earth we worship none other but Him. He is the true God of this world and there are no other Gods that apply to us on this earth whom we should worship. We shouldn't worship any of the children of God other than Jesus Christ whom the father has sent. The rest of us are gods in the sense that we are the children of God and are of the same species, but we are not to be considered as God (with a capital G). God is God and we are his and are to worship him and him alone. However, we do believe that we can become perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect. We believe that in the eternities if faithful, we too can become a father or mother of our own spirit children and have our own kingdoms which will add to the glory of our Father in Heaven. Just as in this world, we grow up and become parents of our own children, we believe this is an eternal pattern for the faithful in eternity. We believe we can grow up to become like our Father and Mother in heaven. If you become one with the Father, you will never oppose the will of the Father.

The Apostle Paul taught:

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here the Apostle Paul is speaking of eating things that are offered to idols and says that "Idols are nothing in the world and that there is none other God but one." Then Paul clarifies that there be gods many, and lords many but that to us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Here Paul clarifies that there are gods many and lords many, but for us here on earth there is but one God. Just as on earth there are father and mothers many but to each of us there is but one father and mother from whom we are born and belong to. For sure, on earth, there be those that are called gods and we know this because Jesus himself has called us gods. There will be some of us who go to heaven and thus we see that there are those also in heaven who are called gods. But we do not worship them but only the God to whom we belong, our Father in heaven.

When a believer acts according to GOD's will and behaves as GOD desires the believer to behave, then he becomes GOD's ambassador and in so doing becomes a god ---- because that one is accomplishing GOD's goals on GOD's behalf. Man is a created being. GOD was always and is forever. We have a beginning. As for there being many gods, that is so when ANYTHING becomes the focus of one's attention. Money becomes a god for one who wants more of it. Power becomes a god for one desiring to control and manipulate others. And a prophet becomes a god for those who embrace that individual's teachings at the expense of the TRUE Gospel of CHRIST. The Word clarifies the Word and exposes the falsehood of any other testament. One doesn't come to the FATHER by a burning in one's bosom. One comes to the FATHER through prayer and supplication in FAITH alone in the MESSIAH JESUS. The TRUE Word was never hid under a bushel. It sits high on a candle stand where it's light does the best work to illuminate the hearts of fallen men with GOD's salvation.

We believe that mankind's bodies were created originally from the dust of the earth and had their beginning at that time, however, we do not believe that the spirit of man had its beginning at that time but were the literal offspring of God the Father in the premortal world. There is alot of evidence of this in the Bible. A further belief of the church, however, is that before being born as spirit children of the Father, we existed eternally as intelligence which was never created or made but was as self-existent as God himself.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

In the above verse, Abraham calls the intelligences spirits.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Genesis 3:19
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The interesting thing about the above verse is that the disciples believed that the man could have sinned before being born. The Lord doesn't teach against this thought but simply gives them the true reason for the man's blindness.

Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Here the saints at Ephesus are told they were chosen before the foundation of the world.

"In Him". Notice all the instances in the Epistles of "in Him, in Christ, etc. We are predestined IN CHRIST when we believe in Him. We are in Him. We are the body of Christ.

 

[MadChemist]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

There are three parables in Matthew 25.

What do you think they discuss.

Do you believe that the five foolish virgins were predestined to be foolish virgins.

I don't know. I don't think predestination is the point. I believe the Scriptures that clearly say I am saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Why did he deliver those three parables ?

What was he teaching ?

 

[BS Filter]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

There are three parables in Matthew 25.

What do you think they discuss.

Do you believe that the five foolish virgins were predestined to be foolish virgins.

I don't know. I don't think predestination is the point. I believe the Scriptures that clearly say I am saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Why did he deliver those three parables ?

What was he teaching ?

He was teaching about the Kingdom of Heaven. Stewardship. I'm sure you're gonna tell me it somehow refers to Mormonism.

 

[Flash]

What I perceive the difference in Christianity and Mormonism doctrine to be:

Christians believe in Faith and Grace.

My understanding is that the Mormons certainly accept the Faith but have a different view of Grace. A big difference.

The Morons are a much more deeds centered religion and that is not real Christianity. That flys in the face of the concept of Grace.

The Mormons that I have discussed this with have all denied it to some degree or another but I think that is a fact.

No offense to any Mormon but I do not consider them to be Christians. At least not my Protestant understanding of Christianity.

Before denying anything, you'd have to explain the nature of Faith and Grace as you see it.

I can only do the same and then we can compare notes.

Also, what do you mean by deeds centered ?

I'll put forth this paragraph from Dallin H. Oaks from a fantastic address given in 2001:

From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become.

I found this to elucidate something that had eluded my ability to put into words.

With respect to Grace, or the relationship between grace and deeds, the Book of Mormon teaches:

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

As a general rule, I would say that our modern day leaders constantly testify of the central importance of the Atonement (often called one of the three pillars of eternity) in our lives. Without the Atonement, doing for us what we can't do for ourselves......there would be no salvation.

I do not apologize for any differences. We are who we are and we teach what we teach:

From the same talk given by Oaks in 2001, we also are taught that we qualify for Eteranl Live through the process of conversion (change).

We are challenged to move through a process of conversion toward that status and condition called eternal life. This is achieved not just by doing what is right, but by doing it for the right reason—for the pure love of Christ.

That process of conversion is something we chose to engage in, but would not be possible without the Atonement.

Unless I misunderstood the point you were making you were making the case for deeds.

Christians do not believe that you must do X, Y and Z before being accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven. You just have Faith and accept the Grace of God.

That, by the way, should lead to doing good deeds but being humans with free will we will always fall short of doing the right thing. Thank God that He has given us His Grace and that Jesus took that burden from us. He has forgiven us for not being perfect.

I have had this discussion many times during the time I lived among the Mormons. I have come to the conclusion that Mormons are not on the same page with the concept of Grace as Protestants or Catholics. Not by a long shot.

 

[Meriweather]

Unless I misunderstood the point you were making you were making the case for deeds.

Christians do not believe that you must do X, Y and Z before being accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus described the Kingdom of Heaven:
The Kingdom is at hand (within reach)
Sinners, he said, ARE entering more quickly than...

The Kingdom of God is here, always has been and always will be. That is the definition of eternity. The work is not done before entering into the Kingdom, but work awaits us there. We love and serve God; we love and serve one another. By our works we shall be known. All are accepted in; all are accepted back. Within, we are at work. We go about the Father's business.

I haven't met every Mormon there is. But the ones I know...They are in the Kingdom, and they are going about the Father's business.

 

[Meriweather]

Earlier I read about a family being excluded from a mostly Mormon community. There is another side. We moved into a small community and began meeting really great people. One woman I met lived a couple of blocks away. Our daughters hit it off--and so did we. A few days after we first met, she looked apprehensive and said, "There is something I should tell you."

Seriously, I thought I was about to be informed I had bad breath, but I could take the truth, so I said expectantly, "Go on."

She said, "I'm Mormon."

Not what I expected. I smiled and said, "I'm Catholic," still looking at her expectantly wondering where this was going.

She looked at me for a moment and then breathed a sigh of relief. "I've met a lot of people here who won't have anything to do with me once they learn I am Mormon. I just wanted to know where we stood."

We are still great friends even though we now live miles apart. We had so much fun quilting and watching our children grow. Our children remained friends as well, and they still see each other even more than we mothers do.

 

[MadChemist]

We were the only Christians that lived on my street. Everybody else LDS.

That's incorrect.

LDS/Mormons are Christians.

However, once they found out we were Lutheran and would not be attending their church they shut us off. We never had any bad words or anything, just politely declining to go to their church.

My wife and I didn't care because we had other friends. However, the Mormons also would not let their children play with our children. That really pissed me off. Our sons did not understand why the neighborhood kids wouldn't associate with them. Even the ones they went to school with. That was a crappy thing to do.

That sort of behavior is not consistent with our values.

I cannot speak for your neighbors, or know why they behaved as they did (assuming you're telling the truth), but it certainly is not the sort of behavior that the church encourages of us.

So if Mormons are Christians, then are all of the other Christians that believe in Jesus going to be with God in eternity?

We all have the same potential in terms of where we land in eternity.

Realizing that potential extends well beyond this life.

I believe the Scriptures, I am saved by faith in Jesus. I will pass into eternity when my body dies. The Scriptures don't say anything about "potential".

There are three parables in Matthew 25.

What do you think they discuss.

Do you believe that the five foolish virgins were predestined to be foolish virgins.

I don't know. I don't think predestination is the point. I believe the Scriptures that clearly say I am saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Why did he deliver those three parables ?

What was he teaching ?

He was teaching about the Kingdom of Heaven. Stewardship. I'm sure you're gonna tell me it somehow refers to Mormonism.

You said the scriptures don't say anything about potential.

I am disagreeing.

If you don't want to discuss things, please be honest.

But to make the claims you have made so far seems a little dishonest if you call the Bible your "source of authority" and are unwilling to explain how it applies.