More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!

[itfitzme]

Is that like the collateral costs of fossil fuels?

No, it's the collateral cost of liberal, green, idiocy.

All of those fossil fuel collateral costs are good, but sustainable energy collateral costs are idiocy. Your ability to debate is pathetic.

Don't they understand, green energy is efficient.
No fuel in, energy out. And no waste disposal costs.
It should be cheaper than fossil fuels, not 8 times as expensive.

You need to go over there and explain what they're doing wrong.
You could make big bucks as a consultant.

Hyperbole.

 

[itfitzme]

yuk.....yuk.........

What climate change? Fewer people than EVER believe the world is really warming up | UK | News | Daily Express

Count you among the idiots

 

[polarbear]

Don't they understand, green energy is efficient.
No fuel in, energy out. And no waste disposal costs.
It should be cheaper than fossil fuels, not 8 times as expensive.

You need to go over there and explain what they're doing wrong.
You could make big bucks as a consultant.

When you are talking to PMZ you are talking to a fence post.
"no fuel in energy out"
Fuel costs in an oil gas or coal fired plant are just a part of the operating budget and are well within the margins.
With wind and solar to make it usable as a stand alone power on demand grid you have to keep burning money as if it was fuel.
"no waste disposal cost"
What kind of a price should we but on entire mountain ranges being stripped, excavated and adorned with a forest of hydro masts and wires?
If it were possible to supply power on demand with just wind and solar then Siemens engineers would have done so and there would be no need for phase#2, these pumped basins.
A state of the art (Siemens) wind turbine generator has to run at a constant 1500 rpm to put out power at 50 Hz ( or 60 Hz over here)
So if the load increases the only available means to compensate is to decrease the prop pitch to more shallow.
And when you do that you better have a high enough wind speed so that you still got enough torque. But the wind is what it is and that`s why wind or solar cannot run in a stand alone mode and need conventional power plants to compensate for load demand changes.
Germany is now committed to produce power on demand with wind and solar. Until there are many more mountain tops converted to pumped basins which incorporate hydro electric plants they will not have a fully functional power grid and have to rely on coal and gas...end of story.
I thought the likes of PMZ are in league with the Sierra Club, Greenpeace etc etc...well they are all over there protesting this pumped basin insanity, getting tear-gassed, clubbed and drenched by police water canons.

Intelligent folks will notice what's not given in pontifications like this.

Alternatives.

Burn fossil fuels until they're gone then return to the caves is not an alternative except to conservatives and lower primates who think that cave living was the ultimate in progress.

So, we ignore them. We keep them out of office and separated from responsibility.

While they loudly proclaim that they want to go backwards in time to when their ideas were relevant, we just move forward. Leave them here or whatever.

They are not our problem.

Hey dimwit
So what`s this "alternative" you keep yapping about ?
Quit bragging about this "alternative" unless you can specify it.
And don`t try and pass off these Schluchsee and Atdorf projects as "your alternative", because you never even heard about them before I posted them...and as far as I know they don`t exist anywhere else.
Most of the other idiots like you were (and are) still fantasizing about gigantic batteries or cubic miles of hydrogen storage tanks while engineers have already dismissed these hair-brained ideas over a decade ago. I know high school kids that are more technology literate than you`ll ever be but none of them brag like you do.

 

[PMZ]

When you are talking to PMZ you are talking to a fence post.
"no fuel in energy out"
Fuel costs in an oil gas or coal fired plant are just a part of the operating budget and are well within the margins.
With wind and solar to make it usable as a stand alone power on demand grid you have to keep burning money as if it was fuel.
"no waste disposal cost"
What kind of a price should we but on entire mountain ranges being stripped, excavated and adorned with a forest of hydro masts and wires?
If it were possible to supply power on demand with just wind and solar then Siemens engineers would have done so and there would be no need for phase#2, these pumped basins.
A state of the art (Siemens) wind turbine generator has to run at a constant 1500 rpm to put out power at 50 Hz ( or 60 Hz over here)
So if the load increases the only available means to compensate is to decrease the prop pitch to more shallow.
And when you do that you better have a high enough wind speed so that you still got enough torque. But the wind is what it is and that`s why wind or solar cannot run in a stand alone mode and need conventional power plants to compensate for load demand changes.
Germany is now committed to produce power on demand with wind and solar. Until there are many more mountain tops converted to pumped basins which incorporate hydro electric plants they will not have a fully functional power grid and have to rely on coal and gas...end of story.
I thought the likes of PMZ are in league with the Sierra Club, Greenpeace etc etc...well they are all over there protesting this pumped basin insanity, getting tear-gassed, clubbed and drenched by police water canons.

Intelligent folks will notice what's not given in pontifications like this.

Alternatives.

Burn fossil fuels until they're gone then return to the caves is not an alternative except to conservatives and lower primates who think that cave living was the ultimate in progress.

So, we ignore them. We keep them out of office and separated from responsibility.

While they loudly proclaim that they want to go backwards in time to when their ideas were relevant, we just move forward. Leave them here or whatever.

They are not our problem.

Hey dimwit
So what`s this "alternative" you keep yapping about ?
Quit bragging about this "alternative" unless you can specify it.
And don`t try and pass off these Schluchsee and Atdorf projects as "your alternative", because you never even heard about them before I posted them...and as far as I know they don`t exist anywhere else.
Most of the other idiots like you were (and are) still fantasizing about gigantic batteries or cubic miles of hydrogen storage tanks while engineers have already dismissed these hair-brained ideas over a decade ago. I know high school kids that are more technology literate than you`ll ever be but none of them brag like you do.

There are many alternatives to the present energy abortion.

CNG powered trucks. Plug in hybrid cars. Electric cars. Wind energy. PV energy. CSP energy. Micro hydro power. TWR. Bio fuels. CF bulbs. Energy star appliances. Hydro. CO2 sequestered fossil fuel plants. Geo energy. Fuel cells. Where have you been?

 

[skookerasbil]

facts > philosophy

 

[skookerasbil]

Intelligent folks will notice what's not given in pontifications like this.

Alternatives.

Burn fossil fuels until they're gone then return to the caves is not an alternative except to conservatives and lower primates who think that cave living was the ultimate in progress.

So, we ignore them. We keep them out of office and separated from responsibility.

While they loudly proclaim that they want to go backwards in time to when their ideas were relevant, we just move forward. Leave them here or whatever.

They are not our problem.

Hey dimwit
So what`s this "alternative" you keep yapping about ?
Quit bragging about this "alternative" unless you can specify it.
And don`t try and pass off these Schluchsee and Atdorf projects as "your alternative", because you never even heard about them before I posted them...and as far as I know they don`t exist anywhere else.
Most of the other idiots like you were (and are) still fantasizing about gigantic batteries or cubic miles of hydrogen storage tanks while engineers have already dismissed these hair-brained ideas over a decade ago. I know high school kids that are more technology literate than you`ll ever be but none of them brag like you do.

There are many alternatives to the present energy abortion.

CNG powered trucks. Plug in hybrid cars. Electric cars. Wind energy. PV energy. CSP energy. Micro hydro power. TWR. Bio fuels. CF bulbs. Energy star appliances. Hydro. CO2 sequestered fossil fuel plants. Geo energy. Fuel cells. Where have you been?

LOL.....well doesn't that comment explain this famous antimetabole.......


"Conservatives believe it when they see it; liberals see it when they believe it."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All of those fossil fuel collateral costs are good, but sustainable energy collateral costs are idiocy. Your ability to debate is pathetic.

Don't they understand, green energy is efficient.
No fuel in, energy out. And no waste disposal costs.
It should be cheaper than fossil fuels, not 8 times as expensive.

You need to go over there and explain what they're doing wrong.
You could make big bucks as a consultant.

When you are talking to PMZ you are talking to a fence post.
"no fuel in energy out"
Fuel costs in an oil gas or coal fired plant are just a part of the operating budget and are well within the margins.
With wind and solar to make it usable as a stand alone power on demand grid you have to keep burning money as if it was fuel.
"no waste disposal cost"
What kind of a price should we but on entire mountain ranges being (WASTED as in being ) stripped, excavated and adorned with a forest of hydro masts and wires?
If it were possible to supply power on demand with just wind and solar then Siemens engineers would have done so and there would be no need for phase#2, these pumped basins.
A state of the art (Siemens) wind turbine generator has to run at a constant 1500 rpm to put out power at 50 Hz ( or 60 Hz over here)
So if the load increases the only available means to compensate is to decrease the prop pitch to more shallow.
And when you do that you better have a high enough wind speed so that you still got enough torque. But the wind is what it is and that`s why wind or solar cannot run in a stand alone mode and need conventional power plants to compensate for load demand changes.
Germany is now committed to produce power on demand with wind and solar. Until there are many more mountain tops converted to pumped basins which incorporate hydro electric plants they will not have a fully functional power grid and have to rely on coal and gas...end of story.
I thought the likes of PMZ are in league with the Sierra Club, Greenpeace etc etc...well they are all over there protesting this pumped basin insanity, getting tear-gassed, clubbed and drenched by police water canons.

I know, but he's our fence post.

I just enjoy mocking his many errors.

 

[freedombecki]

Nobody here has said that they want energy to be rare. Energy has and will cost what it costs.

What will come forever increasingly rare are fossil fuels. That will make them expensive. Also adapting to the new climate they are creating. That will be very expensive.

Energy has and will cost what it costs.

Unless the libs are in charge, then it can cost over 8 times what it's worth.

Private enterprise prices energy as determined by supply and demand. Nobody is in charge of pricing.

Sounds like a whole lot of bureaucrats in the government, except all they have to do is turn in expense accounts that cost 8 times what private industry would spend to keep costs down to the consumers they serve. Bureaucrats serve themselves first thinking no one will notice, and they're pretty much right. Nice guy politicians don't make any flaps about overcharges. They have to get elected based on whether naive people view them as nice guys or not. If they're constantly telling staff to save money, it's viewed as selfish, since there's that great big pot of money, and who would notice if a little of it was missing every single day amounts to taxpayer abuse to the tune of billions if not a trillion dollars.

And Democrats get real tough when Republicans try to trim things down so that citizen taxpayer dollars are not wasted. They say the nastiest things that will appeal to this "cool" Hollyweird criminal conduct push. Read Move on lately? It's sicker than the fools who let Bill Ayres and Bernadine Doehrn off scot free for likely murdering Officer Brian V. McDonnell in February of 1970 with a pipe bomb they left at a police station in San Francisco. Both of them should have received a death sentence. Instead assholes encouraged them to become University Professors to share their anti-American attitude so crucial to the extreme leftist anarchists who are running the government at this moment, masquerading as politicians and civil servants.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All of those fossil fuel collateral costs are good, but sustainable energy collateral costs are idiocy. Your ability to debate is pathetic.

Don't they understand, green energy is efficient.
No fuel in, energy out. And no waste disposal costs.
It should be cheaper than fossil fuels, not 8 times as expensive.

You need to go over there and explain what they're doing wrong.
You could make big bucks as a consultant.

Hyperbole.

PMZ would never do that.

 

[PMZ]

Hey dimwit
So what`s this "alternative" you keep yapping about ?
Quit bragging about this "alternative" unless you can specify it.
And don`t try and pass off these Schluchsee and Atdorf projects as "your alternative", because you never even heard about them before I posted them...and as far as I know they don`t exist anywhere else.
Most of the other idiots like you were (and are) still fantasizing about gigantic batteries or cubic miles of hydrogen storage tanks while engineers have already dismissed these hair-brained ideas over a decade ago. I know high school kids that are more technology literate than you`ll ever be but none of them brag like you do.

There are many alternatives to the present energy abortion.

CNG powered trucks. Plug in hybrid cars. Electric cars. Wind energy. PV energy. CSP energy. Micro hydro power. TWR. Bio fuels. CF bulbs. Energy star appliances. Hydro. CO2 sequestered fossil fuel plants. Geo energy. Fuel cells. Where have you been?

LOL.....well doesn't that comment explain this famous antimetabole.......


"Conservatives believe it when they see it; liberals see it when they believe it."

Conservatives believe it when they hear it on Fox News.

 

[freedombecki]

Don't they understand, green energy is efficient.
No fuel in, energy out. And no waste disposal costs.
It should be cheaper than fossil fuels, not 8 times as expensive.

You need to go over there and explain what they're doing wrong.
You could make big bucks as a consultant.

When you are talking to PMZ you are talking to a fence post.
"no fuel in energy out"
Fuel costs in an oil gas or coal fired plant are just a part of the operating budget and are well within the margins.
With wind and solar to make it usable as a stand alone power on demand grid you have to keep burning money as if it was fuel.
"no waste disposal cost"
What kind of a price should we but on entire mountain ranges being stripped, excavated and adorned with a forest of hydro masts and wires?
If it were possible to supply power on demand with just wind and solar then Siemens engineers would have done so and there would be no need for phase#2, these pumped basins.
A state of the art (Siemens) wind turbine generator has to run at a constant 1500 rpm to put out power at 50 Hz ( or 60 Hz over here)
So if the load increases the only available means to compensate is to decrease the prop pitch to more shallow.
And when you do that you better have a high enough wind speed so that you still got enough torque. But the wind is what it is and that`s why wind or solar cannot run in a stand alone mode and need conventional power plants to compensate for load demand changes.
Germany is now committed to produce power on demand with wind and solar. Until there are many more mountain tops converted to pumped basins which incorporate hydro electric plants they will not have a fully functional power grid and have to rely on coal and gas...end of story.
I thought the likes of PMZ are in league with the Sierra Club, Greenpeace etc etc...well they are all over there protesting this pumped basin insanity, getting tear-gassed, clubbed and drenched by police water canons.

Intelligent folks will notice what's not given in pontifications like this.

Alternatives.

Burn fossil fuels until they're gone then return to the caves is not an alternative except to conservatives and lower primates who think that cave living was the ultimate in progress.

So, we ignore them. We keep them out of office and separated from responsibility.

While they loudly proclaim that they want to go backwards in time to when their ideas were relevant, we just move forward. Leave them here or whatever.

They are not our problem.

Endangering bird species and aquatic mammals is not the problem of the wind and tides turbine folks, either. They pretend their experimental water turbines did not endanger 2 local fish species and one specie of seals that were confused by all that racket. Local economies were dependent on tourists who came to enjoy their unique fish and see the odd but friendly seals. Not one word of apology has been issued by the Green Industry for its decimation, and in the west, raptors such as the ospreys are increasingly found dead beneath massive wind turbines directly in their food migration paths. Again, no nothing out of the greenies. And PETA? Never been quieter, but they will run naked in the park if you wear your grandmother's mink stole on a blustery cold day.

 

[skookerasbil]

More k00k losing.......

MOST SEVERE START TO EUROPEAN WINTER IN 200 YEARS


http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/12/most-severe-start-of-winter-in-200-years-european-municipalities-now-ignoring-foolish-predictions-of-warm-winters/



Oooopsie.........



Europeans are ignoring the warmer predictions of the climate nutters........hmmmmm.......wonder why?

Maybe because the last 5 consecutive winters in Europe are colder than normal.



The climate crusader predictions = always wrong.




Because its a ******* hoax!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[flacaltenn]

More k00k losing.......

MOST SEVERE START TO EUROPEAN WINTER IN 200 YEARS


?Most Severe Winter Start In 200 Years!? + Euro Municipalities Now Ignoring Foolish Predictions Of Warm Winters



Oooopsie.........



Europeans are ignoring the warmer predictions of the climate nutters........hmmmmm.......wonder why?

Maybe because the last 5 consecutive winters in Europe are colder than normal.



The climate crusader predictions = always wrong.




Because its a ******* hoax!!!

You're gonna blow a gasket or slip a disc with all this celebration Skooks.. I'm afraid you won't be around for the punishment of the guilty part...

And we NEED you !!!!!!!

 

[Abraham3]

FCT, I gotta say that the level of response you've made to IfItzMe's calculations just don't hold up. The case he's presented is as solid and as airtight as such things can get. Celebrating cold weather in Europe at this point (and encouraging Skookerasbil in ANYTHING) is more than a little... disappointing.

 

[PMZ]

Energy has and will cost what it costs.

Unless the libs are in charge, then it can cost over 8 times what it's worth.

Private enterprise prices energy as determined by supply and demand. Nobody is in charge of pricing.

Sounds like a whole lot of bureaucrats in the government, except all they have to do is turn in expense accounts that cost 8 times what private industry would spend to keep costs down to the consumers they serve. Bureaucrats serve themselves first thinking no one will notice, and they're pretty much right. Nice guy politicians don't make any flaps about overcharges. They have to get elected based on whether naive people view them as nice guys or not. If they're constantly telling staff to save money, it's viewed as selfish, since there's that great big pot of money, and who would notice if a little of it was missing every single day amounts to taxpayer abuse to the tune of billions if not a trillion dollars.

And Democrats get real tough when Republicans try to trim things down so that citizen taxpayer dollars are not wasted. They say the nastiest things that will appeal to this "cool" Hollyweird criminal conduct push. Read Move on lately? It's sicker than the fools who let Bill Ayres and Bernadine Doehrn off scot free for likely murdering Officer Brian V. McDonnell in February of 1970 with a pipe bomb they left at a police station in San Francisco. Both of them should have received a death sentence. Instead assholes encouraged them to become University Professors to share their anti-American attitude so crucial to the extreme leftist anarchists who are running the government at this moment, masquerading as politicians and civil servants.

Sounds like you really hate this country and most everyone in it. Why are you afraid to go to where things are more to your liking? Where would you go if you weren't afraid?

 

[PMZ]

More k00k losing.......

MOST SEVERE START TO EUROPEAN WINTER IN 200 YEARS


?Most Severe Winter Start In 200 Years!? + Euro Municipalities Now Ignoring Foolish Predictions Of Warm Winters



Oooopsie.........



Europeans are ignoring the warmer predictions of the climate nutters........hmmmmm.......wonder why?

Maybe because the last 5 consecutive winters in Europe are colder than normal.



The climate crusader predictions = always wrong.




Because its a ******* hoax!!!

You're gonna blow a gasket or slip a disc with all this celebration Skooks.. I'm afraid you won't be around for the punishment of the guilty part...

And we NEED you !!!!!!!

There is lots of Democratic celebrating going on around the country at the Republican Party's latest shot in their foot. I hope that the short term emotional euphoria doesn't replace in any way the long term rational result that's infinitely more important.

Voting Dixiecrats out of office. They are an extreme danger to democracy and progress and we simply can't afford them.

 

[bripat9643]

More k00k losing.......

MOST SEVERE START TO EUROPEAN WINTER IN 200 YEARS


?Most Severe Winter Start In 200 Years!? + Euro Municipalities Now Ignoring Foolish Predictions Of Warm Winters



Oooopsie.........



Europeans are ignoring the warmer predictions of the climate nutters........hmmmmm.......wonder why?

Maybe because the last 5 consecutive winters in Europe are colder than normal.



The climate crusader predictions = always wrong.




Because its a ******* hoax!!!

You're gonna blow a gasket or slip a disc with all this celebration Skooks.. I'm afraid you won't be around for the punishment of the guilty part...

And we NEED you !!!!!!!

There is lots of Democratic celebrating going on around the country at the Republican Party's latest shot in their foot. I hope that the short term emotional euphoria doesn't replace in any way the long term rational result that's infinitely more important.

Voting Dixiecrats out of office. They are an extreme danger to democracy and progress and we simply can't afford them.

What you're all celebrating is the demise of the United States. You made it clear that getting control of spending is an impossible task because the parasites are firmly in control. History demonstrates that opportunist politicians will ride the death spiral all the way to the ground. Democracy is a self-limiting disease. This one is headed for extinction.

 

[PrometheusBound]

When you are talking to PMZ you are talking to a fence post.
"no fuel in energy out"
Fuel costs in an oil gas or coal fired plant are just a part of the operating budget and are well within the margins.
With wind and solar to make it usable as a stand alone power on demand grid you have to keep burning money as if it was fuel.
"no waste disposal cost"
What kind of a price should we but on entire mountain ranges being stripped, excavated and adorned with a forest of hydro masts and wires?
If it were possible to supply power on demand with just wind and solar then Siemens engineers would have done so and there would be no need for phase#2, these pumped basins.
A state of the art (Siemens) wind turbine generator has to run at a constant 1500 rpm to put out power at 50 Hz ( or 60 Hz over here)
So if the load increases the only available means to compensate is to decrease the prop pitch to more shallow.
And when you do that you better have a high enough wind speed so that you still got enough torque. But the wind is what it is and that`s why wind or solar cannot run in a stand alone mode and need conventional power plants to compensate for load demand changes.
Germany is now committed to produce power on demand with wind and solar. Until there are many more mountain tops converted to pumped basins which incorporate hydro electric plants they will not have a fully functional power grid and have to rely on coal and gas...end of story.
I thought the likes of PMZ are in league with the Sierra Club, Greenpeace etc etc...well they are all over there protesting this pumped basin insanity, getting tear-gassed, clubbed and drenched by police water canons.

Intelligent folks will notice what's not given in pontifications like this.

Alternatives.

Burn fossil fuels until they're gone then return to the caves is not an alternative except to conservatives and lower primates who think that cave living was the ultimate in progress.

So, we ignore them. We keep them out of office and separated from responsibility.

While they loudly proclaim that they want to go backwards in time to when their ideas were relevant, we just move forward. Leave them here or whatever.

They are not our problem.

Endangering bird species and aquatic mammals is not the problem of the wind and tides turbine folks, either. They pretend their experimental water turbines did not endanger 2 local fish species and one specie of seals that were confused by all that racket. Local economies were dependent on tourists who came to enjoy their unique fish and see the odd but friendly seals. Not one word of apology has been issued by the Green Industry for its decimation, and in the west, raptors such as the ospreys are increasingly found dead beneath massive wind turbines directly in their food migration paths. Again, no nothing out of the greenies. And PETA? Never been quieter, but they will run naked in the park if you wear your grandmother's mink stole on a blustery cold day.

Endangered species are unfit species. They only get in our way and have cost us thousands of jobs and the revenue from the resources they restrict. Repeal this act. It's all about hoarding. The spoiled sissy treehuggers are upper-class mutants who hate the human race out of jealousy. Crush these degenerates!

The alarmist scare story that one of these species might provide the only cure for cancer
can be rebutted, if the Greenies want to play that game, with the fact that one of the worthless species they save may be the only host for a mass-killer uncurable virus.

 

[PMZ]

You're gonna blow a gasket or slip a disc with all this celebration Skooks.. I'm afraid you won't be around for the punishment of the guilty part...

And we NEED you !!!!!!!

There is lots of Democratic celebrating going on around the country at the Republican Party's latest shot in their foot. I hope that the short term emotional euphoria doesn't replace in any way the long term rational result that's infinitely more important.

Voting Dixiecrats out of office. They are an extreme danger to democracy and progress and we simply can't afford them.

What you're all celebrating is the demise of the United States. You made it clear that getting control of spending is an impossible task because the parasites are firmly in control. History demonstrates that opportunist politicians will ride the death spiral all the way to the ground. Democracy is a self-limiting disease. This one is headed for extinction.

No. We learned from Europe that the austerity pill was exactly the same kind of medicine that the Bushwacker overdosed us on and almost killed us.

That’s why we're focused on undoing the conservative pathogen by rebuilding an economy robust enough to pay for the government we want, we've built, and we voted for.

We want everyone to win. Not just the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, a concept that's clearly beyond your comprehension.