More normal people with guns, more criminals getting shot during criminal attacks….good.

[AZrailwhale]

Um, yeah... statement stands.

We have 6 million car accidents a year. I know all about which of my coworkers have been in car accidents. Car accidents are a common occurrence, and people talk about them.

If it was happening a million times a year, then people would talk about it. We'd all know of that co-worker or that family member who had to chase a bad guy off with a gun.

And... no. I don't know a single person who has ever told a story like that. Even my coworkers who are nutty gun fetishists.

We had six million actual car accidents. How many unreported near misses are there? During my driving life, I've seen at least five a week on average, often more. Most defensive gun uses are exactly like car near misses, they don't get reported because no crime has been committed.

 

[JoeB131]

We had six million actual car accidents. How many unreported near misses are there? During my driving life, I've seen at least five a week on average, often more. Most defensive gun uses are exactly like car near misses, they don't get reported because no crime has been committed.

Well, if he was in your house, it wasn't a near miss.

And this is the problem with DGU's in general. We have no idea if it was a real threat, or if some gun fetishist just went out and menaced people who made him nervous.

Heck, I could see two idiots waving their guns at each other and both going home thinking they were involved in a "DGU".

 

[Blues Man]

You see, when you are out in the real world, people babble about the mundane parts of their lives... Their gripes with their neighbors or the towns or whatever.

And you know what they never talk about? That really cool time they faced down a burglar with a gun

Because it never happens.

And you haven't talked to enough people for that number to be statistically significant

And it obviously happens you just can't admit it

 

[Blues Man]

Wow, you went with the newspaper owned by the Moonies?

when you can't refute the subject you malign the source. Classic evasion

 

[Blues Man]

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

In 2007-11, about 1% of nonfatal violent crime victims used a firearm in self defense In 2007-11, there were 235,700 victimizations where the victim used a firearm to threaten or attack an offender

Now we also have to realize that many self defense incidences are never reported to police so they will not be reflected in these stats.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the actual number is higher.

And you'll notice that in that same time period the number murders committed with firearms were lower than the number of defensive uses.

Many U.S. Crimes Go Unreported, Unprosecuted - The Crime Report

The Pew Research Center finds that only about half of the violent crimes and a third of the property crimes that occur each year are reported to police. Most crimes reported don’t result in the arrest, charging and prosecution of a suspect.

thecrimereport.org

Only about half of the violent crimes and a third of the property crimes that occur in the U.S. each year are reported to police.

 

[JoeB131]

And you haven't talked to enough people for that number to be statistically significant

And it obviously happens you just can't admit it

You clearly don't understand how probabilities work.

If one million people have DGU's every year that means that over a 10 year period, you'd have 10 million people who have had a DGU.
Which means if I interact with 100 people, three of them would have DGU's.

I go back to the gun violence thing. Only about 45,000 a year die from gun violence. (And yes, that include suicides, which are definitely violent). So in my life, I know of three people who died of gun violence, one of them my next door neighbor.

So even with that MUCH MUCH lower number, I know of cases where it happened.

But yet in the thousands of coworkers, neighbors, customers, vendors, I have encountered in my years on Planet Earth, I have met all of ZERO people who have ever had to chase off a bad guy with a gun. Why? Because it almost never happens.

 

[JoeB131]

when you can't refute the subject you malign the source. Classic evasion

Here's a better question... why are so many right wing sources owned by weird Asian cults? The Washington Times is owned by the Moonies, and the Epoch Times is owned by the Fulan Gong. You guys should probably take stock of the company you keep.

 

[Blues Man]

You clearly don't understand how probabilities work.

If one million people have DGU's every year that means that over a 10 year period, you'd have 10 million people who have had a DGU.
Which means if I interact with 100 people, three of them would have DGU's.

I go back to the gun violence thing. Only about 45,000 a year die from gun violence. (And yes, that include suicides, which are definitely violent). So in my life, I know of three people who died of gun violence, one of them my next door neighbor.

So even with that MUCH MUCH lower number, I know of cases where it happened.

But yet in the thousands of coworkers, neighbors, customers, vendors, I have encountered in my years on Planet Earth, I have met all of ZERO people who have ever had to chase off a bad guy with a gun. Why? Because it almost never happens.

Without a statistically sound sample you have no accurate measure of probability. That is the very reason your 43 times bullshit is bunk. the sample was manipulated

And I never claimed that there were 1million DGUs a year so if you want to actually use the number I said was most likely number go back and actually read my posts.

 

[Blues Man]

Here's a better question... why are so many right wing sources owned by weird Asian cults? The Washington Times is owned by the Moonies, and the Epoch Times is owned by the Fulan Gong. You guys should probably take stock of the company you keep.

Don't care because anyone who knows anything knows that the the media is owned by just a handful or corporate conglomerates and none of them can be trusted so you actually have to do some work to get to the truth.

 

[JoeB131]

Without a statistically sound sample you have no accurate measure of probability. That is the very reason your 43 times bullshit is bunk. Kleck manipulated the sample.

And I never claimed that there were 1million DGUs a year so if you want to actually use the number I said was most likely number go back and actually read my posts.

Other people put out the 1 million DGU claim. But even without that, the thing still stands. If there are more gun defenses than gun deaths, I should know of more gun defenses than gun deaths. I know of three gun deaths and ZERO gun defenses.

Don't care because anyone who knows anything knows that the the media is owned by just a handful or corporate conglomerates and none of them can be trusted so you actually have to do some work to get to the truth.

Here's the major thing about "corporate" media. It has to be accountable because they have deep pockets. Which is why when they report on something, they have to get opinions from both sides and employ fact checkers.

Newspapers owned by weird Asian cults, not so much.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Other people put out the 1 million DGU claim. But even without that, the thing still stands. If there are more gun defenses than gun deaths, I should know of more gun defenses than gun deaths. I know of three gun deaths and ZERO gun defenses.



Here's the major thing about "corporate" media. It has to be accountable because they have deep pockets. Which is why when they report on something, they have to get opinions from both sides and employ fact checkers.

Newspapers owned by weird Asian cults, not so much.

LOL ya CNN NBC and the others got info from both sides.

 

[Blues Man]

Other people put out the 1 million DGU claim. But even without that, the thing still stands. If there are more gun defenses than gun deaths, I should know of more gun defenses than gun deaths. I know of three gun deaths and ZERO gun defenses.



Here's the major thing about "corporate" media. It has to be accountable because they have deep pockets. Which is why when they report on something, they have to get opinions from both sides and employ fact checkers.

Newspapers owned by weird Asian cults, not so much.

Bullshit.

Just look at the shit cable news puts out every day Fox is biased, MSNBC is biased, CNN is biased

And I notice you have ignored the data I provided on defensive gun use. What's the matter you can't malign the source so you ignore the data?

 

[Blues Man]

Another issue we have with the whole DGU thing is that there is no consensus on what actually defines a DGU

IMO it must be a contact crime where the piece of shit criminal actually approaches an intended victim and not, for example, chasing off some guy cutting across your property by waving a shotgun around while standing on your porch.

 

[JoeB131]

Bullshit.

Just look at the shit cable news puts out every day Fox is biased, MSNBC is biased, CNN is biased

All true, but they don't put out utter bullshit like the Asian Cult Media.

And I notice you have ignored the data I provided on defensive gun use. What's the matter you can't malign the source so you ignore the data?

Nope, I just ignore all the NRA spooge about DGU's.. because by and large, they don't happen often enough to offset the carnage caused by random gun ownership.

 

[Blues Man]

All true, but they don't put out utter bullshit like the Asian Cult Media.


Nope, I just ignore all the NRA spooge about DGU's.. because by and large, they don't happen often enough to offset the carnage caused by random gun ownership.

Not from the NRA .

I suppose the US Dept of Justice is just another NRA stooge in your tiny mind.

Just admit you're full of shit. I heard there are places that actually buy human stool. You could be a fucking millionaire

 

[JoeB131]

Not from the NRA .

I suppose the US Dept of Justice is just another NRA stooge in your tiny mind.

I suspect the DOJ is just trying to do what agencies do, pander to the audience.

But since you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, so be it.

 

[Blues Man]

I suspect the DOJ is just trying to do what agencies do, pander to the audience.

But since you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, so be it.

OK so you and only you are the arbiter of what good data is and you choose Kellerman's flawed data as the pinnacle

If you bothered to read the DOJ report you would actually have seen that their number of DGUs was considerably lower than 1 million but you are just convinced that no DGU ever happens that you can't even concede that the truth is they do