Missouri Bill to raise age of consent to 18 (from 17)

[Delta4Embassy]

I reckon it won't have much effect on those close in age anyway...and I don't see any harm in moving it up a year.

Other than Paint, who sees harm? And what is it?

I don't think we have close in age exceptions here. Will check here now but pretty sure.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Section 566.0034 Beginning January 1 2017--Statutory rape second degree penalty. RSMO 566.034

2nd degree, no mention of close-in-age exception. Only exceptions are if you're married.

"Statutory Rape and Sodomy

In Missouri, a person commits the crime of second degree statutory rape by engaging in sexual intercourse with a person under the age of 17 when the defendant is over the age of 21. A person age 21 or older that engages in sodomy (oral or anal sex or sexual penetration) with a child under the age of 17 commits the crime of second degree statutory sodomy.

No matter what the defendant’s age, it is a crime (first degree statutory rape or sodomy) to engage in sexual intercourse or sodomy with a child under the age of 14.

(Mo. Rev. Stat. §§ 566.032, 566.034, 566.062, 566.064.)

For example, a 22-year-old who has sex with a 16-year-old could be convicted of second degree statutory rape. Any person who engages in sexual intercourse against a 13-year-old could be convicted of first degree statutory rape."
Missouri Statutory Rape Laws Criminal Law

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I reckon it won't have much effect on those close in age anyway...and I don't see any harm in moving it up a year.

Other than Paint, who sees harm? And what is it?

The only harm is that 18 is slightly more unreasonable than 17, which isn't reasonable in the first place.

 

[EverCurious]

Fair warning: OT from the OP

G.T.

At one point in human history we were required to hunt our own food in order to survive, we were also driven to procure a mate and reproduce. By the same token we were driven to "appear" better suited as a mate; this involved being better at hunting, having more fur, having a bigger tribe or harem, having a longer neck, or all manner of what people "at that time" and "in that particular area" found "attractive" and, oft, indicative of a more suitable mate. The underlying principle of this has never changed, however, the skills required to get them have.

The past currency was just as "material" on the surface as "money" is today (though perhaps the drive for a "mate" has slightly shifted to being more of a "being successful" thread, in that today's society is not as reliant upon reproduction as in the past, when it was a matter of survival of the entire race.) We've both become more diverse in our modern "envy" of other humans; envious of their status and fame for example, and at the same time less diverse; as most of the things we currently envy happen to require money.

Of course humans would still innovate for ease with or without money, but that does not equate to ones life becoming any easier at all. It's no different then inventing the concept of throwing a spear rather than take more risks to stab the beast in melee... In the grander scope it does not change the 'fight' aspect; simply the skills to 'fight' are changed - one needs to become a better tracker of animals at which to throw said spear at for example - and especially as more rival hunters learn to also throw their spears. Or perhaps the short direct road humans are oft want to take; simply wipe out the competition for said hunting grounds/animals.

One can factitiously to boil it down to the modern concept of "money," but in doing so one is ignoring the underlayment of "human envy" that drives it all, and will ALWAYS drive it all - no matter what the "preferred currency of the moment" is. Which is ultimately the "fight" and "responsibility" I personally refer to, merely in a broader scope.

I am not successful simply because I learned to throw my spear, but because I did not stop "fighting" there; I continued to adapt in order to always be better then the rest of the hunters. Or in modern terms, I am not wealthy simply because I got a degree in computerized bookkeeping in 1993, but because I "continued" to push myself to learn all aspect of running a business, because I kept up with modern technology and deeper as a programmer, because I took psychology classes and management classes and customer service classes, and more - in short because I continued to "fight" to be the best person for whatever job was necessary. I will never be "complacent" about my current state of existence, there is always "more" I can do to "better" myself.

 

[G.T.]

Fair warning: OT from the OP

G.T.

At one point in human history we were required to hunt our own food in order to survive, we were also driven to procure a mate and reproduce. By the same token we were driven to "appear" better suited as a mate; this involved being better at hunting, having more fur, having a bigger tribe or harem, having a longer neck, or all manner of what people "at that time" and "in that particular area" found "attractive" and, oft, indicative of a more suitable mate. The underlying principle of this has never changed, however, the skills required to get them have.

The past currency was just as "material" on the surface as "money" is today (though perhaps the drive for a "mate" has slightly shifted to being more of a "being successful" thread, in that today's society is not as reliant upon reproduction as in the past, when it was a matter of survival of the entire race.) We've both become more diverse in our modern "envy" of other humans; envious of their status and fame for example, and at the same time less diverse; as most of the things we currently envy happen to require money.

Of course humans would still innovate for ease with or without money, but that does not equate to ones life becoming any easier at all. It's no different then inventing the concept of throwing a spear rather than take more risks to stab the beast in melee... In the grander scope it does not change the 'fight' aspect; simply the skills to 'fight' are changed - one needs to become a better tracker of animals at which to throw said spear at for example - and especially as more rival hunters learn to also throw their spears. Or perhaps the short direct road humans are oft want to take; simply wipe out the competition for said hunting grounds/animals.

One can factitiously to boil it down to the modern concept of "money," but in doing so one is ignoring the underlayment of "human envy" that drives it all, and will ALWAYS drive it all - no matter what the "preferred currency of the moment" is. Which is ultimately the "fight" and "responsibility" I personally refer to, merely in a broader scope.

I am not successful simply because I learned to throw my spear, but because I did not stop "fighting" there; I continued to adapt in order to always be better then the rest of the hunters. Or in modern terms, I am not wealthy simply because I got a degree in computerized bookkeeping in 1993, but because I "continued" to push myself to learn all aspect of running a business, because I kept up with modern technology and deeper as a programmer, because I took psychology classes and management classes and customer service classes, and more - in short because I continued to "fight" to be the best person for whatever job was necessary. I will never be "complacent" about my current state of existence, there is always "more" I can do to "better" myself.

If i wasnt on my phone i could perhaps entertain this line by line style and way more in depth

But the point isnt that not working at all is a virtue.

The point is that enjoyment should be our goal.

With that comes the certain works-courting mates, finding food

But theres something to be said for becoming so hollow as a species as to become the sons and daughters who move far away from their familys for their careers .....are career driven, have kids but work 60hrs a week and call THAT success as opposed to a more conservative houred career and more time to raise the kids ...etc. etc.

This is too much for a one off convo off a cell phone though

 

[Missourian]

Section 566.0034 Beginning January 1 2017--Statutory rape second degree penalty. RSMO 566.034

2nd degree, no mention of close-in-age exception. Only exceptions are if you're married.

"Statutory Rape and Sodomy

In Missouri, a person commits the crime of second degree statutory rape by engaging in sexual intercourse with a person under the age of 17 when the defendant is over the age of 21. A person age 21 or older that engages in sodomy (oral or anal sex or sexual penetration) with a child under the age of 17 commits the crime of second degree statutory sodomy.

No matter what the defendant’s age, it is a crime (first degree statutory rape or sodomy) to engage in sexual intercourse or sodomy with a child under the age of 14.

(Mo. Rev. Stat. §§ 566.032, 566.034, 566.062, 566.064.)

For example, a 22-year-old who has sex with a 16-year-old could be convicted of second degree statutory rape. Any person who engages in sexual intercourse against a 13-year-old could be convicted of first degree statutory rape."
Missouri Statutory Rape Laws Criminal Law

Isn't the "over 21" part the close in age exception?

If you are 18,19 or 20, and your partner is 15, 16 or 17...your are not in violation.

That's a five year range.

A 21 year old shouldn't be sleeping with a 16 year old, 21 and 17 is iffy...but that is where the 18 as age of consent falls down compared to the current 17...iffy isn't beyond reason.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Section 566.0034 Beginning January 1 2017--Statutory rape second degree penalty. RSMO 566.034

2nd degree, no mention of close-in-age exception. Only exceptions are if you're married.

"Statutory Rape and Sodomy

In Missouri, a person commits the crime of second degree statutory rape by engaging in sexual intercourse with a person under the age of 17 when the defendant is over the age of 21. A person age 21 or older that engages in sodomy (oral or anal sex or sexual penetration) with a child under the age of 17 commits the crime of second degree statutory sodomy.

No matter what the defendant’s age, it is a crime (first degree statutory rape or sodomy) to engage in sexual intercourse or sodomy with a child under the age of 14.

(Mo. Rev. Stat. §§ 566.032, 566.034, 566.062, 566.064.)

For example, a 22-year-old who has sex with a 16-year-old could be convicted of second degree statutory rape. Any person who engages in sexual intercourse against a 13-year-old could be convicted of first degree statutory rape."
Missouri Statutory Rape Laws Criminal Law

Isn't the "over 21" part the close in age exception?

If you are 18,19 or 20, and your partner is 15, 16 or 17...your are not in violation.

That's a five year range.

A 21 year old shouldn't be sleeping with a 16 year old, 21 and 17 is iffy...but that is where the 18 as age of consent falls down compared to the current 17...iffy isn't beyond reason.

Wondered about that myself. Don't think so though. Probably just a less serious offense than 2nd degree stat rape.

 

[EverCurious]

If i wasnt on my phone i could perhaps entertain this line by line style and way more in depth

But the point isnt that not working at all is a virtue.

The point is that enjoyment should be our goal.

With that comes the certain works-courting mates, finding food

But theres something to be said for becoming so hollow as a species as to become the sons and daughters who move far away from their familys for their careers .....are career driven, have kids but work 60hrs a week and call THAT success as opposed to a more conservative houred career and more time to raise the kids ...etc. etc.

This is too much for a one off convo off a cell phone though

Understand. A thought to consider post phone call - We would simply then turn to other points of "currency" - how high one's IQ is, how good ones home life is, how smart their children are... There is really no escaping the inherent "envy" aspect. Were you to explore the life of the wealthy you would see it surfaces even among those who /don't/ have to work, the "currency" merely shifts from "cash" to "how green my lawn is" for a quick example.

 

[G.T.]

If i wasnt on my phone i could perhaps entertain this line by line style and way more in depth

But the point isnt that not working at all is a virtue.

The point is that enjoyment should be our goal.

With that comes the certain works-courting mates, finding food

But theres something to be said for becoming so hollow as a species as to become the sons and daughters who move far away from their familys for their careers .....are career driven, have kids but work 60hrs a week and call THAT success as opposed to a more conservative houred career and more time to raise the kids ...etc. etc.

This is too much for a one off convo off a cell phone though

Understand. A thought to consider post phone call - We would simply then turn to other points of "currency" - how high one's IQ is, how good ones home life is, how smart their children are... There is really no escaping the inherent "envy" aspect. Were you to explore the life of the wealthy you would see it surfaces even among those who /don't/ have to work, the "currency" merely shifts from "cash" to "how green my lawn is" for a quick example.

We should flesh this chat out more in the future

Its a good one, and i wanna come back to it wth anyone interested

 

[EverCurious]

We should flesh this chat out more in the future

Its a good one, and i wanna come back to it wth anyone interested

Sure. Fire up a thread somewhere