Minnesota Moves To Pass Trans-Refuge Bill That Would Strip Custody From Non-Consenting Parents

[BlueGin]

I see a lot of problems coming for these “officials” when they try to take somebody’s children. Easy is right. These are a bunch of sick grooming f*cks.

Doesnt Minnesota have a huge Muslim population? The Muslim communities are already pretty outraged by this Trans crap. I can’t imagine this will go over well.

 

[Doug1943]

First of all, patriots should acknowledge that there ARE people who, for whatever reason, find that their persona, in particular their sexual identity, doesn't fit the biological machine they were born inside. The brain is extremely complex -- we don't understand how it works. We don't even know what makes someone left-handed!

It's deeply stupid for people on the Right to just condemn all gay and transgender people. That sort of bigot is unlikely to be interested in ideas, or read books, but some of the best writing on the Right has been by transgender and Gay people. (Examples given upon request.) Anti-Gay/Transgender bigots are often racists (real ones) and anti-Semites as well: the net effect of their actions is to help drive away millions of people from the patriot movement.

So, although sexual identity is not just a question of 'choice', the way one can choose to learn how to speak French, on the other hand, this identity may not be 100% fixed at birth. The social environment may influence it. People who begin life feeling that they are 'in the wrong body' may change their minds later. (There is a very interesting article on such a case here: [ What Happened When My Son Came Out... as Straight] )

So, what to do? Basically, leave the kids alone! Don't allow bullying, and as kids grow up, they'll learn soon enough about all the variations of sexual identity that there are. The internet alone will see to that. If they decide that they're gay, or want to change sex, then they'll pursue the necessary course. They don't have to be encouraged in this by school.

There's a broader argument here between Left and Right.

Basically, the Left believe that all of our traditional beliefs, including those about men and women and the family, were just manifestations of power relations, and need to be undermined, and replaced by beliefs based on Reason (the Left's Reason). In particular, there is nothing good about -- in fact, there is a lot bad about -- the traditional one-man-one-woman family. (They feel the same way about traditional patriotism, which they see as irrational seeing one's own tribe as superior to all others.)

And then there is the clandestine presence within the Left of pro-paedophiles, who have a strong personal reason for destroying anything that honors the traditional family.

The Right, on the other hand, want to 'privilege' the tradtional one-man-one-woman family. We feel this is particularly urgent right now, when the advanced countries face a deadly population problem: we're not having enough children. Far from there being a population 'explosion', there is a population 'implosion'.

This isn't a conflict that lends itself to compromise. At best, we could agree just not to discuss these issues in schools, but the Left is not inclined to compromise with what it sees as Evil.

From our point of view, we have to get our children out of schools dominated by Leftist thinking -- which means most public schools, certainly those in Blue states. One solution is for patriots to concentrate into Red States, something which is good in itself. Another is School Choice. Let the Public Schools introduce homosexual love-making techniques to ten-year olds, and let our kids, in schools outside the system, learn about the glories of Western Civilization.

 

[Anathema]

So, what to do? Basically, leave the kids alone! Don't allow bullying, and as kids grow up, they'll learn soon enough about all the variations of sexual identity that there are. The internet alone will see to that. If they decide that they're gay, or want to change sex, then they'll pursue the necessary course. They don't have to be encouraged in this by school

“Leave the kids alone” is a problem, because it ends up exposing OUR children to ideas and people we don’t want them exposed to. Not everyone has the opportunity to homeschool or privately school their kids. I truly believe it is the role of the parents to instill Nora and values in our children, but it’s tough when the schools have them 30+ hours a week and they’re actively espousing immorality and vice to the kids.

I would much rather see the schools and other public outlets stay silent on these topics than espouse the “woke” immorality that they do. To that same end, I’m extremely frustrated by the private citizens who seem to find a need to wear their political and moral commentaries literally on their chest, in public spaces.

I go out of my way to avoid inflicting my personal political/moral/religious advocacies on people in public. No shirts. No pins. No bumper stickers. None of the “advocacy eye litter” that has become so prevalent these days.

 

[Doug1943]

“Leave the kids alone” is a problem, because it ends up exposing OUR children to ideas and people we don’t want them exposed to. Not everyone has the opportunity to homeschool or privately school their kids. I truly believe it is the role of the parents to instill Nora and values in our children, but it’s tough when the schools have them 30+ hours a week and they’re actively espousing immorality and vice to the kids.

I would much rather see the schools and other public outlets stay silent on these topics than espouse the “woke” immorality that they do. To that same end, I’m extremely frustrated by the private citizens who seem to find a need to wear their political and moral commentaries literally on their chest, in public spaces.

I go out of my way to avoid inflicting my personal political/moral/religious advocacies on people in public. No shirts. No pins. No bumper stickers. None of the “advocacy eye litter” that has become so prevalent these days.

Well, that's two different things. I advise patriots not to put bumper stickers on their cars, because they'll be vandalized by the Left. But in general, we've got to be out there pushing our ideas. There is, sadly, a 'bandwagon effect' for a lot of people: the more they see the patriots standing up, the more they're willing to think our ideas have merit. Politics is not, by and large, a cold rational process for most people.

The problem is, the public schools are supposed to teach a consensus: murder is bad, America is great. But our Leftist friends don't believe the second proposition any more, just like they don't believe the traditional family should be the norm any more. Where we can purge them from the educational system and go back to teaching decency and patriotism, we should. Where we can't, we should try to force them to be nominally neutral, at least so far as official curricula go.

And those who can, should take their kids out of schools where Leftist poison is being introduced. If we had School Choice (the money for education follows the kid, so you can send them to a non-public school), that would solve a lot. But in many places we don't. So .. patriots should move to a Red State, or homeschool if they can.

Another option: find out what sort of poison is being introduced in schools. Write up leaflets refuting it. Hand them out to students as they go to school. Picket the school. Make every kid know, what they're being indoctrinated with is NOT a universal consensus. (That's where the real damage is done: when kids are taught evil, but it's taught in an atmosphere of "this is what everyone believes, like 1 + 1 = 2".)

And of course, try to form coalitions to take down the local school board and replace them with people who won't teach this filth to children. You'll find that many ordinary Democrats agree -- so make a coalition, not an exclusively-conservative electoral group.

 

[Anathema]

Well, that's two different things. I advise patriots not to put bumper stickers on their cars, because they'll be vandalized by the Left. But in general, we've got to be out there pushing our ideas. There is, sadly, a 'bandwagon effect' for a lot of people: the more they see the patriots standing up, the more they're willing to think our ideas have merit. Politics is not, by and large, a cold rational process for most people

I believe that private discussion, with people you know to actually being willing to listen is fsr more valuable than standing outside screaming like a bunch of 4 year olds who want a cookie. As for your logic comment… that’s why I don’t believe most folks should be allowed to vote.

The problem is, the public schools are supposed to teach a consensus:

No. They’re not supposed to teach a consensus. They are supposed to be the repository of FACT, nothing more. Not consensus. Not opinion. FACTS.,

And those who can, should take their kids out of schools where Leftist poison is being introduced. If we had School Choice (the money for education follows the kid, so you can send them to a non-public school), that would solve a lot. But in many places we don't. So .. patriots should move to a Red State, or homeschool if they can

Thst is not a reasonable option for most people. It would be great if it was. School Choice will really only exacerbate the Haves/Have-Nots paradigm. We have to fix the systems behind the education system.

Another option: find out what sort of poison is being introduced in schools. Write up leaflets refuting it. Hand them out to students as they go to school. Picket the school. Make every kid know, what they're being indoctrinated with is NOT a universal consensus. (That's where the real damage is done: when kids are taught evil, but it's taught in an atmosphere of "this is what everyone believes, like 1 + 1 = 2".)

This is a tough one. As the child of two educators, I believe in parents knowing what the kids are being taught. However, the potential for repercussions against the parents and their kids (which I can speak to directly) is very high.

And of course, try to form coalitions to take down the local school board and replace them with people who won't teach this filth to children. You'll find that many ordinary Democrats agree -- so make a coalition, not an exclusively-conservative electoral group.

I don’t sit with my enemies and break bread - EVER.

 

[Doug1943]

I believe that private discussion, with people you know to actually being willing to listen is fsr more valuable than standing outside screaming like a bunch of 4 year olds who want a cookie. As for your logic comment… that’s why I don’t believe most folks should be allowed to vote.

No. They’re not supposed to teach a consensus. They are supposed to be the repository of FACT, nothing more. Not consensus. Not opinion. FACTS.,

Thst is not a reasonable option for most people. It would be great if it was. School Choice will really only exacerbate the Haves/Have-Nots paradigm. We have to fix the systems behind the education system.

This is a tough one. As the child of two educators, I believe in parents knowing what the kids are being taught. However, the potential for repercussions against the parents and their kids (which I can speak to directly) is very high.

I don’t sit with my enemies and break bread - EVER.

I'm glad you weren't in charge of Allied strategy when we were fighting Hitler. Churchill said that if Hitler invaded Hell, he (Churchill) would find a few favorable words to say about the Devil in the House of Commons. And he no doubt broke bread with Stalin at Yalta.

I don't know about 'breaking bread', but if a group of Democrat-voting parents wanted to join with a group of conservatives to put up a coalition slate for school board elections --one that would NOT teach Critical Race Theory, and would not invite Drag Queens into the kindergarten ... you would tell them to get lost? Really?

If a good liberal like Peter Beinart started a Free Speech at Stanford group (Stanford is the latest example of leftist students destroying a conservative public meeting), you would advise conservatives to boycott it?

If your house caught fire and the fire department showed up to put it out, you would say, "If any of you are Democrats, get out of here!"???

Jesus ... with tacticians like this, we don't need enemies. We've got to be wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

As for FACT vs 'consensus'. No, you're mistaken here. Please think again. Schools should teach facts, of course.

But they should also teach a whole set of ideas and attitudes that turn children into responsible citizens of society. They shouldn't be taught to despise their society ... unless it's one that needs to be changed root-and-branch.

And this is where the trouble starts, of course, because Right and Left don't agree on this any more. (If by 'Left' we mean mainstream liberals, then we used to agree on this, but this consensus -- America is an exceedingly good country, flawed, but overcoming its flaws -- began to break down a few decades ago.)

And even the question of what is a 'Fact' is subject to political influence, because reality consists of an infinite number of facts, and we must choose which of them we put together into the picture of the past and of the present that we give to our children.

The Critical Race Theorists don't want outright lies taught to children. They just want their selection of facts taught, along with their interpretation of the meaning and significance of these facts. Our side, same-same.

We might be able to reach some agreement with sensible liberals about what to teach, perhaps by agreeing to 'teach the conflict' where we disagree. I don't insist that schools teach that Reagan was a wonderful President -- let them hear both sides of the argument.

Where we can't get that, and significant numbers of parents are on both sides of the hate-Amerikkka vs love-America divide, the best we can do is to agree just not to talk about it. "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

The great historian EH Carr, in his What Is History?, pointed out that it is a 'fact' that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. But ...he crossed many other rivers. And many other people crossed the Rubicon, even on the same day Caesar did. We chose that fact over a near-infinite number of river-crossing facts to teach our children about. (Okay, in American schools they probably never even learn who Caesar was, much less the significance of his crossing the Rubicon, but you get my meaning.)

As for the stupidity of the average person. Yes, it would be wonderful if, say, the average French peasant had had the IQ of the average French intellectual, people like Jean Frédéric Joliot-Curie, winner of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1935 for his and his wife's discovery of induced radioactivity. On the other hand, clever Mr Joliot-Curie, like a large number of the French intelligentsia, supported -- was even a member of -- the French Communist Party, and wanted it to take state power and make France into another workers paradise like Russia, while those dumb old French peasants voted for conservative parties. What cretins!

A large number of Americans -- disproportionately those without college degrees -- believe there is something seriously wrong with the direction our country is taking. It's not because they're too stupid to solve second-order partial differential equations, or didn't take courses in feminist anthropology -- it's because, unlike most of our young college graduates, they're feeling the effects of a declining society in their own personal lives. Charles Murray documented all this in his Coming Apart over ten years ago.

Yes, a lot of them are all too ready to believe nonsense. Grifters speading sensationalist junk news and worse, have landed on them like a flock of vultures. That just means we've got to get to work combatting the nonsense.

We have to go to war with the army we've got.