Minimum wage rates.

[task0778]

Min wage is needed and it's also bullshit.
On the island Of LikkMee. The law reads:
OK assholes. Company made 50 million.
pResident made 10 Million
You five assistants split 5 of that(his).
Now. Smoke a joint
5 million for head asshole
1 million each for associate assholes.
Cool ?
The 300 downstairs made 30 grand a piece(chump change$15/hr) =9 million,
Their bonus is 30 grand a piece. 9 million more
Profit of company.... 20 million or so...until the accountants get done.
Is this problematic ???

I highly doubt there are any companies where the president makes $10 mil running a company that only made $50 mil. If you look at the fortune 500 companies, I only found 25 where the CEO makes $10 mil or more. You gotta be one of the big boys before you get that kind of compensation.

Interestingly, I found this while looking around:

How much does a Chief Executive Officer make in the United States? The average Chief Executive Officer salary in the United States is $771,165 as of May 27, 2021, but the range typically falls between $582,690 and $993,605. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession.

Chief Executive Officer Salary | Salary.com

The 2022 average Chief Executive Officer salary in the US is $786,256. How much does a Chief Executive Officer make near you? Get a free salary report today.

www.salary.com

The Left loves to point out the difference between what the average worker makes, but then they compare that to what the average fortune 500 CEO makes instead of the average CEO. Not exactly honest.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Min wage is needed and it's also bullshit.
On the island Of LikkMee. The law reads:
OK assholes. Company made 50 million.
pResident made 10 Million
You five assistants split 5 of that(his).
Now. Smoke a joint
5 million for head asshole
1 million each for associate assholes.
Cool ?
The 300 downstairs made 30 grand a piece(chump change$15/hr) =9 million,
Their bonus is 30 grand a piece. 9 million more
Profit of company.... 20 million or so...until the accountants get done.
Is this problematic ???

I highly doubt there are any companies where the president makes $10 mil running a company that only made $50 mil. If you look at the fortune 500 companies, I only found 25 where the CEO makes $10 mil or more. You gotta be one of the big boys before you get that kind of compensation.

Interestingly, I found this while looking around:

How much does a Chief Executive Officer make in the United States? The average Chief Executive Officer salary in the United States is $771,165 as of May 27, 2021, but the range typically falls between $582,690 and $993,605. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession.

Chief Executive Officer Salary | Salary.com

The 2022 average Chief Executive Officer salary in the US is $786,256. How much does a Chief Executive Officer make near you? Get a free salary report today.

www.salary.com

The Left loves to point out the difference between what the average worker makes, but then they compare that to what the average fortune 500 CEO makes instead of the average CEO. Not exactly honest.

What about corporations which didn't have HR report their data?

 

[Supposn]

Automation is not justified when human labor is available, can accomplish the tasks just as well, and at costs not exceeding automation’s costs. ...

Justified? Businesses and employers justify their business decisions based on the bottom line, i.e., profit. And they do it on a long term basis, not the here and now. What is the total cost going to be of human labor with ALL of the attendant factors over the next 5 to 10 years vs automating jobs? Or outsourcing some function offshore? Surely you have noticed that over the past 100 years or so, there has been an increase in automation across every sector of our economy, automation and computerization are everywhere. And that requires up front capital to make the change from human labor to machines; businesses and employers do not take that investment lightly, and yet they're doing it at an ever-increasing rate. Why? It should be obvious.

So - higher wages does indeed encourage automation, employers wouldn't be automating jobs out of existence if it didn't make economic sense to do so. And that is not an argument in favor of poverty, ...

Task0778, thank you for all of those words to explain why I believe automation is justified. Those such as yourself that are opposed to increasing the minimum wage rate on the basis of increasing the value of human labor and accelerating automation, are arguing in favor of poverty. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Those such as yourself that are opposed to increasing the minimum wage rate on the basis of increasing the value of human labor

How does a hike in the minimum wage "increase the value of human labor"?

 

[task0778]

Automation is not justified when human labor is available, can accomplish the tasks just as well, and at costs not exceeding automation’s costs. ...

Justified? Businesses and employers justify their business decisions based on the bottom line, i.e., profit. And they do it on a long term basis, not the here and now. What is the total cost going to be of human labor with ALL of the attendant factors over the next 5 to 10 years vs automating jobs? Or outsourcing some function offshore? Surely you have noticed that over the past 100 years or so, there has been an increase in automation across every sector of our economy, automation and computerization are everywhere. And that requires up front capital to make the change from human labor to machines; businesses and employers do not take that investment lightly, and yet they're doing it at an ever-increasing rate. Why? It should be obvious.

So - higher wages does indeed encourage automation, employers wouldn't be automating jobs out of existence if it didn't make economic sense to do so. And that is not an argument in favor of poverty, ...

Task0778, thank you for all of those words to explain why I believe automation is justified. Those such as yourself that are opposed to increasing the minimum wage rate on the basis of increasing the value of human labor and accelerating automation, are arguing in favor of poverty. Respectfully, Supposn

No, I'm arguing in favor of less gov't intervention/interference in matters that they have no business being involved in. There is nothing, repeat NOTHING in the Constitution that gives the gov't the power to arbitrarily set wages and prices. It is in my opinion usurping an authority they do not and should not have.

No one in this country has to live in poverty. It is a choice that people make, actually a number of choices and decisions that everyone makes in school until death. It may not be the easiest of choices, and in fact is usually the hardest pat to take but nonetheless each of us can make better decisions about how to better ourselves. IMHO, the gov't should not be making that decision for us; if you want to make more money then God Dammit, go earn it.

IOW, I'm not arguing in favor of poverty, I'm arguing in favor of taking personal responsibility for your own well-being. You might be in poverty today, but you don't have to stay there. It should be on you and not the gov't to improve your situation. And I believe that raising the MW reduces the chances and opportunities for everyone to do that.

 

[Supposn]

Those such as yourself that are opposed to increasing the minimum wage rate on the basis of increasing the value of human labor ...

How does a hike in the minimum wage "increase the value of human labor"?

Whining ToddsterPatriot, there's lesser need for, and fewer sales of automatic door operation devices within nations where doormen work for much cheaper wages. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

No, I'm arguing in favor of less gov't intervention/interference in matters that they have no business being involved in. There is nothing, repeat NOTHING in the Constitution that gives the gov't the power to arbitrarily set wages and prices. It is in my opinion usurping an authority they do not and should not have. ...

Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices. ...
... Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law. ...

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Canon Shooter]

I'm not paying an employee for an hour of his life. I'm paying an employee for what he can accomplish in an hour of his life.

On October 1, 2024, my company will no longer have a custodial department. That's the date when I would have to start paying them $13 an hour. Sorry, but that's simply too much to pay someone to sweep the floor, clean the restrooms, etc, considering it will be far less expensive for me to contract that out to a third party cleaning company. This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs.

Could I keep them and pay them more? Sure I could. But I would also have to raise my fees and prices in order to absorb the increase, and that will cost me customers. From a business perspective, customers are far more important than a custodial department...

Canon Shooter, isn't it interesting another enterprise's could serve as your costs and they could profit by doing so; I'm assuming they do expect to profit?

The third party you may be considering, do you believe their managers are superior to your enterprise's managers?
If your enterprise contracts-out for work to done, and those working behalf of your enterprise are paid less than the legal minimum or working "off the books" (which is evasion of tax and labor laws), ignorance of what contractor was doing may not sufficiently shield your enterprise or its manager from civil or criminal penalties.

"This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs"? you're considering letting out a contract and no one will be doing the work? Respectfully, Supposn
g

The company I would contract with is a long-standing presence in this town. They operate above board and aren't going to pay less than what the law dictates. If they want to pay someone $13 an hour to clean the restrooms in my businesses, so be it. I have no problem with that.

Not sure what your last sentence is supposed to mean. The work will absolutely get done...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Those such as yourself that are opposed to increasing the minimum wage rate on the basis of increasing the value of human labor ...

How does a hike in the minimum wage "increase the value of human labor"?

Whining ToddsterPatriot, there's lesser need for, and fewer sales of automatic door operation devices within nations where doormen work for much cheaper wages. Respectfully, Supposn

It doesn't. LOL!

 

[task0778]

No, I'm arguing in favor of less gov't intervention/interference in matters that they have no business being involved in. There is nothing, repeat NOTHING in the Constitution that gives the gov't the power to arbitrarily set wages and prices. It is in my opinion usurping an authority they do not and should not have. ...

Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices. ...
... Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law. ...

Respectfully, Supposn

First you said this: "Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices. ..."

And then you said this: "Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states."

If federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage state is able to undermine the wage rates of other states, that IS in reality regulating labor market prices. Which they have no business doing and no authority for that whatsoever in the Constitution.

 

[Supposn]

Canon Shooter, isn't it interesting another enterprise's could serve as your costs and they could profit by doing so; I'm assuming they do expect to profit?
The third party you may be considering, do you believe their managers are superior to your enterprise's managers?

If your enterprise contracts-out for work to done, and those working behalf of your enterprise are paid less than the legal minimum or working "off the books" (which is evasion of tax and labor laws), ignorance of what contractor was doing may not sufficiently shield your enterprise or its manager from civil or criminal penalties.
"This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs"? you're considering letting out a contract and no one will be doing the work? Respectfully, Supposn

The company I would contract with is a long-standing presence in this town. They operate above board and aren't going to pay less than what the law dictates. If they want to pay someone $13 an hour to clean the restrooms in my businesses, so be it. I have no problem with that.

Not sure what your last sentence is supposed to mean. The work will absolutely get done...

Canon Shooter, my prior post was not all that subtle.

How is a commercial contractor profitably able to comply with laws effective within your enterprise's work site's state at less than your own costs? Are they superior managers?

If the contractor you choose is less than (as you posted), "above board", your enterprise and its managers may be exposed to civil and/or criminal penalties. If work's being done on your enterprise's behalf by workers paid less than the legal minimum, or they're "off the books" (which is evasion of taxes), ignorance may not be a sufficient legal defense.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Canon Shooter]

Canon Shooter, isn't it interesting another enterprise's could serve as your costs and they could profit by doing so; I'm assuming they do expect to profit?
The third party you may be considering, do you believe their managers are superior to your enterprise's managers?

If your enterprise contracts-out for work to done, and those working behalf of your enterprise are paid less than the legal minimum or working "off the books" (which is evasion of tax and labor laws), ignorance of what contractor was doing may not sufficiently shield your enterprise or its manager from civil or criminal penalties.
"This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs"? you're considering letting out a contract and no one will be doing the work? Respectfully, Supposn

The company I would contract with is a long-standing presence in this town. They operate above board and aren't going to pay less than what the law dictates. If they want to pay someone $13 an hour to clean the restrooms in my businesses, so be it. I have no problem with that.

Not sure what your last sentence is supposed to mean. The work will absolutely get done...

Canon Shooter, my prior post was not all that subtle.

How is a commercial contractor profitably able to comply with laws effective within your enterprise's work site's state at less than your own costs? Are they superior managers?

If the contractor you choose is less than (as you posted), "above board", your enterprise and its managers may be exposed to civil and/or criminal penalties. If work's being done on your enterprise's behalf by workers paid less than the legal minimum, or they're "off the books" (which is evasion of taxes), ignorance may not be a sufficient legal defense.
Respectfully, Supposn

This isn't rocket science.

First, the company in question is as reputable as they get. They're not going to jeopardize their standing of over 60 years in the community by paying their workers less than mandated by law or off the books. I don't need a sufficient legal defense for that because your very suggestion is stupid.

Second, I have 4 people in my custodial department. That's a total of 160 hours man hours a week. At $13 an hour, that will cost me $2,080 per week, or $8,320 per month. I'll be able to contract that service out with an outside company for $4,500 per month, saving me $3,820 a month.

It's not my business to know how the cleaning company remains profitable. They've been at it a long time and have a rather long list of clients already.

You're acting like I've not researched this. I certainly have, because it means having to let people go, and I don't like doing that...

 

[initforme]

Pay always equates to effort expected. More pay more effort. Less pay less effort expected by the employer. Most low wage jobs($20 per hour and less). Are offered by emiyers WANTING a high turnover rate and wanting their best employees to leave.

 

[Supposn]

First you said this: "Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices. ..."

And then you said this: "Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states."

If federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage state is able to undermine the wage rates of other states, that IS in reality regulating labor market prices. Which they have no business doing and no authority for that whatsoever in the Constitution.

Task0778, employers determine differentials between individual employees' wage rates. USA governments' minimum wage rates only determine the minimum rates within their labor markets and in turn, that substantially affects only rates within USA's lowest bracket of wage rates.
We agree a wage is a wage rate regulation, but I contend other than establishing a minimum rate, it doesn't effectively determine prices in labor markets. There's no point to further discussing our terminology opinions.

Regardless of our opinions the federal minimum wage rate effectively reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[LibertyKid]

Min wage is needed and it's also bullshit.
On the island Of LikkMee. The law reads:
OK assholes. Company made 50 million.
pResident made 10 Million
You five assistants split 5 of that(his).
Now. Smoke a joint
5 million for head asshole
1 million each for associate assholes.
Cool ?
The 300 downstairs made 30 grand a piece(chump change$15/hr) =9 million,
Their bonus is 30 grand a piece. 9 million more
Profit of company.... 20 million or so...until the accountants get done.
Is this problematic ???

I highly doubt there are any companies where the president makes $10 mil running a company that only made $50 mil. If you look at the fortune 500 companies, I only found 25 where the CEO makes $10 mil or more. You gotta be one of the big boys before you get that kind of compensation.

Interestingly, I found this while looking around:

How much does a Chief Executive Officer make in the United States? The average Chief Executive Officer salary in the United States is $771,165 as of May 27, 2021, but the range typically falls between $582,690 and $993,605. Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many important factors, including education, certifications, additional skills, the number of years you have spent in your profession.

Chief Executive Officer Salary | Salary.com

The 2022 average Chief Executive Officer salary in the US is $786,256. How much does a Chief Executive Officer make near you? Get a free salary report today.

www.salary.com

The Left loves to point out the difference between what the average worker makes, but then they compare that to what the average fortune 500 CEO makes instead of the average CEO. Not exactly honest.

And when you look at a CEO, especially those of the big companies. Those men and women are working 24/7. They are also usually highly educated, intelligent and have the professional experience to go along with running a business.

So before people bitch about "CEO's make too much money". Ask yourself this, how much is your time worth for a job where you will be held responsible for what happens. Where you are basically working 24/7. You have no life, family and friends will take a back seat. You worry about profits, you worry about loss, you worry about investors, marketing, debt, supply, demand, manufacturing, IT.... the whole entire company sits on your shoulders. What's that worth?

Also, most of these top earning CEOs didn't just come out of know where making this money. They worked hard, climbed the ladders and put the time and efforts in. On the other hand, a kid comes out of college that is pretty good at sports and can be handed a handsome contract making millons... no one bats an eye at that shit.

 

[Slyhunter]

He's right. People with no skills, no experience, no education...aren't worth $15.

An hour of a persons life isn’t worth $15?

Not always......obviously.

I don't get dressed for less than $15.00 an hour for a minimum of 5 hour shift. And that's if I don't have to drive very far to get to work. Want me to drive further pay more.

 

[Hellbilly]

we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:

Trump’s Favorite Economist Just Said Minorities ‘Aren't Worth $15 an Hour’

Art Laffer is the brains behind “trickle down” economics.

www.vice.com

For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

Dudmuck, other words, the brown people aren't worth a raise"?
///////
Excerpted from:

Minimum wage is a character issue.

Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate. The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes of the U.S. dollar’s inflation; on the contrary, it’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
////////
Still whiningToddsterPatriot, you too contend "brown people aren't worth a raise"?
Respectfully, Supposn

Workers who are unskilled, uneducated and inexperienced aren't worth $15/hour.
No matter their color. Even if it makes you sad.

Are you saying skilled workers are only worth $15 an hour?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:

Trump’s Favorite Economist Just Said Minorities ‘Aren't Worth $15 an Hour’

Art Laffer is the brains behind “trickle down” economics.

www.vice.com

For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

Dudmuck, other words, the brown people aren't worth a raise"?
///////
Excerpted from:

Minimum wage is a character issue.

Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate. The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes of the U.S. dollar’s inflation; on the contrary, it’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
////////
Still whiningToddsterPatriot, you too contend "brown people aren't worth a raise"?
Respectfully, Supposn

Workers who are unskilled, uneducated and inexperienced aren't worth $15/hour.
No matter their color. Even if it makes you sad.

Are you saying skilled workers are only worth $15 an hour?

Am I? Where?

 

[Hellbilly]

Am I? Where?

You’re asking me what you meant?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Am I? Where?

You’re asking me what you meant?

That's my way of mocking your silly question.