Minimum Wage Increase: They Never Talks About the SALES

[Andylusion]

If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down.

That's exactly what MW laws are all about.

Workers don't exist to be personal slaves. And no one is forced to hire workers. You don't wanna pay em, do the work yourself. Or get family members to volunteer their time to better your business. Workers are people too. They have bills and families to support.

Agreed. The problem is, none of that matters. None of it.

You can't pay a worker, more than the value of their labor.

Who determines the value of the labor? The customer.

If I'm not willing to pay $50 to have my lawn mowed, then you can't pay the worker $50 to mow the law.

"But they have bills!"

Doesn't matter.

"But they have families!"

Don't care.

"But but HEALTH INSURANCE?!?"

Makes no difference.

The largest cost in most businesses is labor, and thus prices tend to follow the cost of labor. I've certainly seen that in my time. A burrito at Chipotle used to be $4.75, and now it's $6.50. That's a significant increase, that closely follows the increase in the minimum wage.

But eventually, people start choosing alternatives, in relation to price. Again, I've done this. I rarely go to Chipotle anymore, specifically because of the price.

Every business, must inherently, pass all costs onto consumers. As the prices goes up, buying goes down. At some point one of two things happens. Either people are replaced by kiosks, which McDonald's has been pioneering, or they close as we have documented in Seattle.

 

[JoeMoma]

I don't understand how you can be so dense. The economic benefits of raising the minimum wage would occur because the change would happen in the entire economy. Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

And the increase still leaves them less profitable.

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

So let's raise the minimum wage by 20% a year every year. In just a few years we should be living in a economic paradise!

 

[Care4all]

Duh. They're gonna raise prices anyway. Minimum Wage has nothing to do with it. It never has.

So you're saying that labor costs have nothing to do with the price of goods and services?

So why don't you open a popcorn business and pay everyone 15 an hour and only sell your popcorn for 50 cents a bag?

Let's see how long you last.

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

You hit the nail on the head with this post, in contradiction to your post number 964. No one forces anyone to hire workers, but raising the minimum wage can force businesses not to hire someone or even to close up shop.....just like you said.

That's never been proven to be the case in the past. If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down. If you need to hire workers, you're just gonna have to deal with the fact you'll pay em a survivable wage. They have families to take care of as well. They're not your slaves.

Damn! First you say it has not been proven ( that raising minimum wage caused unemployment) but then in your next sentence you say that those that can't afford minimum wage don't belong in business. Well which is it? When the minimum wage doubles and the businesses that no longer can afford paying minimum wage go out of business, what do you think will happen to unemployment?

Doubled in one year or doubled over a 10 year period?

 

[Andylusion]

I don't understand how you can be so dense. The economic benefits of raising the minimum wage would occur because the change would happen in the entire economy. Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

And the increase still leaves them less profitable.

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

You keep saying the price increase would be slight... but historically it hasn't been slight. In 2006, the price of a burrito at Chipotle, was $4.75. Today, it's $6.50. That's not "slight".

And while the employee might only earn a few hundred extra a month, the cost to business is significantly more.

And there would be absolutely no increase in demand in the economy. No country anywhere in the world, that has increased the minimum wage, as had any documented increase in economic demand. In fact, normally the exact opposite. Most of the time, there is a decrease in demand.

For every one employee that gets paid a slightly higher wage, there is another employee that is laid off, and now earns zero. Between two employees earning $10, and one employee earning $15, while the other earns zero, that's not an increase in economic demand. It's a loss.

Look at the picture above of all the McDonald's kiosks. Tell me how much demand all those cashiers are creating with the new higher minimum wage? Answer? Zero. They are unemployed. Game over.

 

[JoeMoma]

So you're saying that labor costs have nothing to do with the price of goods and services?

So why don't you open a popcorn business and pay everyone 15 an hour and only sell your popcorn for 50 cents a bag?

Let's see how long you last.

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

You hit the nail on the head with this post, in contradiction to your post number 964. No one forces anyone to hire workers, but raising the minimum wage can force businesses not to hire someone or even to close up shop.....just like you said.

That's never been proven to be the case in the past. If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down. If you need to hire workers, you're just gonna have to deal with the fact you'll pay em a survivable wage. They have families to take care of as well. They're not your slaves.

Damn! First you say it has not been proven ( that raising minimum wage caused unemployment) but then in your next sentence you say that those that can't afford minimum wage don't belong in business. Well which is it? When the minimum wage doubles and the businesses that no longer can afford paying minimum wage go out of business, what do you think will happen to unemployment?

Doubled in one year or doubled over a 10 year period?

If the minimum wage is not raised over a significant number of years, then the economy will eventually outgrow the minimum wage because there will practically not be one due to inflation. Although I am not for a minimum wage, I realize the political implications of it. As such, the politically smart thing for the republicans to do would be to vote in an increase to the minimum wage to perhaps $10 per hour and then tie it into the inflation rate.
To answer your question, doubling the minimum wage over 10 years would not be anywhere near as stressful to businesses as doubling it in one year. If the minimum wage were tied to the inflation rate, then a doubling in ten years would be due to an an inflation rate of approximately 7% over the ten year period.

 

[Billy000]

Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

And the increase still leaves them less profitable.

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

You keep saying the price increase would be slight... but historically it hasn't been slight. In 2006, the price of a burrito at Chipotle, was $4.75. Today, it's $6.50. That's not "slight".

And while the employee might only earn a few hundred extra a month, the cost to business is significantly more.

And there would be absolutely no increase in demand in the economy. No country anywhere in the world, that has increased the minimum wage, as had any documented increase in economic demand. In fact, normally the exact opposite. Most of the time, there is a decrease in demand.

For every one employee that gets paid a slightly higher wage, there is another employee that is laid off, and now earns zero. Between two employees earning $10, and one employee earning $15, while the other earns zero, that's not an increase in economic demand. It's a loss.

Look at the picture above of all the McDonald's kiosks. Tell me how much demand all those cashiers are creating with the new higher minimum wage? Answer? Zero. They are unemployed. Game over.

Lol you and I both know that you are just making shit up about economic demand. A burrito at Chipotle? Are you kidding me? That's your evidence? Lol why are you so convinced raising the minimum wage had anything to do with that?

According to the CBO, if the minimum wage was raised to 10,10, the overall job loss would be a few hundred thousand in total. Other sources will tell you that job loss isn't even an issue. The CBO report also states that jobs will be created over time because of the increase in consumer demand.

Here is what really matters: 600 economists, including 7 Nobel prize winners, signed a letter in support of Obama raising the minimum wage. Stop being brainwashed by scumbag republicans who don't give a shit about you and listen to the actual experts.

 

[JoeMoma]

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

You keep saying the price increase would be slight... but historically it hasn't been slight. In 2006, the price of a burrito at Chipotle, was $4.75. Today, it's $6.50. That's not "slight".

And while the employee might only earn a few hundred extra a month, the cost to business is significantly more.

And there would be absolutely no increase in demand in the economy. No country anywhere in the world, that has increased the minimum wage, as had any documented increase in economic demand. In fact, normally the exact opposite. Most of the time, there is a decrease in demand.

For every one employee that gets paid a slightly higher wage, there is another employee that is laid off, and now earns zero. Between two employees earning $10, and one employee earning $15, while the other earns zero, that's not an increase in economic demand. It's a loss.

Look at the picture above of all the McDonald's kiosks. Tell me how much demand all those cashiers are creating with the new higher minimum wage? Answer? Zero. They are unemployed. Game over.

Lol you and I both know that you are just making shit up about economic demand. A burrito at Chipotle? Are you kidding me? That's your evidence? Lol why are you so convinced raising the minimum wage had anything to do with that?

According to the CBO, if the minimum wage was raised to 10,10, the overall job loss would be a few hundred thousand in total. Other sources will tell you that job loss isn't even an issue. The CBO report also states that jobs will be created over time because of the increase in consumer demand.

Here is what really matters: 600 economists, including 7 Nobel prize winners, signed a letter in support of Obama raising the minimum wage. Stop being brainwashed by scumbag republicans who don't give a shit about you and listen to the actual experts.

Well, all those Nobel prize winners have got to stick together.

Since Oboma won the Nobel peace prize for simply being elected POTUS, ......... I lend no credibility to the Nobel committee in their selections.

 

[LOki]

what is the difference between collective bargaining or crony capitalism; i believe crony capitalism is less efficient.

HOLY SHIT!

I am 100% in agreement with danielpalos!

Tomorrow's headline: "Global cooling in Hell"

 

[LOki]

Duh

Duh. They're gonna raise prices anyway. Minimum Wage has nothing to do with it. It never has.

So you're saying that labor costs have nothing to do with the price of goods and services?

So why don't you open a popcorn business and pay everyone 15 an hour and only sell your popcorn for 50 cents a bag?

Let's see how long you last.

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

I agree; Only the Right likes to complain about Individual Responsibility, but Only when it is about the least wealthy.

Spot On. And i swear, i'll never get why angry white Republican dudes especially, are so angry. I mean they've always had it much better than non-white Americans have. They're so upset and panicked because someone at McDonalds might get $15. It's ridiculous. Such greedy hateful little wankers.

Which brings up racism. That's right; the minimum wage is racist. In this country minimum wage means being white is worth no less than $7.25/hr. How does this work? Like this: If 2 prospective employees--one black, one white, but otherwise equal--apply for a minimum wage job, Mr. AryanFront employer can hire white guy with a crew cut and golf shirt at no financial cost--none. He doesn't even have to worry about his competitors picking up the aspiring black worker for less, because they too have to pay him $7.25/hr. If this black worker were allowed to contract his labor for $5.00/hr, or $7.24 even, choosing the white guy would cost RacistJackass $2.25/hr (or $0.01 depending). Moreover, his competitors, if not racist, have the opportunity to hire the black worker at a cost advantage.

If you think this is not the case, you should check out how the white dominated unions in apartheid South Africa complained that the lack of minimum wage regulations led employers to hire cheap black laborers over better trained and better paid white folks. Which, coincidentally was exactly the same argument (check the congressional record) used by Robert Bacon when he wrote the Davis-Bacon Act (the first minmum wage law) in response to Southern contractors bringing black labor to a federal project in his Long Island district; a labor regulation which forces contractors engaged in government contracts to pay employees union wage scale (unions, which incidently were, at the time, usually exclusively white); effectively barring Southern blacks and immigrants from working on plush, government funded construction projects.

Minimum wage doesn't neccessarily have to be racist; on it's best day, minimum wage is only a state sponsored protection for older, higher paid workers from the competition of anyone who would accept less pay for the same work. The surprise for me was that though I understood that minimum wage and Davis-Bacon were, in observable and measurable effect, racist policies--I just had no idea that they were racist in intent.

So why is it that proponents for statutory minimum wage object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what the worker's work is worth? Why won't they explain their objection to us? Why don't they tell us the reason for refusing to explain their objection?

Maybe the answer is that they're racists. Maybe the're just ashamed to be outed so. Seems legit.

 

[Andylusion]

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

You hit the nail on the head with this post, in contradiction to your post number 964. No one forces anyone to hire workers, but raising the minimum wage can force businesses not to hire someone or even to close up shop.....just like you said.

That's never been proven to be the case in the past. If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down. If you need to hire workers, you're just gonna have to deal with the fact you'll pay em a survivable wage. They have families to take care of as well. They're not your slaves.

Damn! First you say it has not been proven ( that raising minimum wage caused unemployment) but then in your next sentence you say that those that can't afford minimum wage don't belong in business. Well which is it? When the minimum wage doubles and the businesses that no longer can afford paying minimum wage go out of business, what do you think will happen to unemployment?

Doubled in one year or doubled over a 10 year period?

If the minimum wage is not raised over a significant number of years, then the economy will eventually outgrow the minimum wage because there will practically not be one due to inflation. Although I am not for a minimum wage, I realize the political implications of it. As such, the politically smart thing for the republicans to do would be to vote in an increase to the minimum wage to perhaps $10 per hour and then tie it into the inflation rate.
To answer your question, doubling the minimum wage over 10 years would not be anywhere near as stressful to businesses as doubling it in one year. If the minimum wage were tied to the inflation rate, then a doubling in ten years would be due to an an inflation rate of approximately 7% over the ten year period.

That is the most illogical response I've seen yet.

Moreover, that's been tried. Greece tried that. That cause such a high unemployment rate, that they had to freeze the minimum wage again, and then LOWER it.

Seriously.... think about dude.... you are business owner, and every single year, your cost of doing business goes up. What happens? If you raise your prices every single year, people stop buying. Then you lay off your people, and move to another country.

Holy smoke! That sounds like exactly what happened in Greece? Yeah, because it is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't understand how you can be so dense. The economic benefits of raising the minimum wage would occur because the change would happen in the entire economy. Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

And the increase still leaves them less profitable.

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

So a company with a few hundred people will only have a few hundred dollar increase in payroll?

And it's not just the increase in the wage. It's the increase in payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes, workman's comp is based on payroll so that goes up.

Now figure in that all the supplies that a business uses will most likely go up in price as all those other businesses raise their prices to offset their payroll increases and tell me that it's only going to cost a few hundred a month.

If any of you idiots ever actually had to meet a payroll and keep a business in the black you might have a clue as to what you're talking about

 

[Andylusion]

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

You people are so goddamn thick. The price increase would be slight and would not nearly be enough to offset the extra few hundred bucks someone would make a month. Over time the the boost to consumer demand would help the economy and lower prices anyway. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Accept it.

You keep saying the price increase would be slight... but historically it hasn't been slight. In 2006, the price of a burrito at Chipotle, was $4.75. Today, it's $6.50. That's not "slight".

And while the employee might only earn a few hundred extra a month, the cost to business is significantly more.

And there would be absolutely no increase in demand in the economy. No country anywhere in the world, that has increased the minimum wage, as had any documented increase in economic demand. In fact, normally the exact opposite. Most of the time, there is a decrease in demand.

For every one employee that gets paid a slightly higher wage, there is another employee that is laid off, and now earns zero. Between two employees earning $10, and one employee earning $15, while the other earns zero, that's not an increase in economic demand. It's a loss.

Look at the picture above of all the McDonald's kiosks. Tell me how much demand all those cashiers are creating with the new higher minimum wage? Answer? Zero. They are unemployed. Game over.

Lol you and I both know that you are just making shit up about economic demand. A burrito at Chipotle? Are you kidding me? That's your evidence? Lol why are you so convinced raising the minimum wage had anything to do with that?

According to the CBO, if the minimum wage was raised to 10,10, the overall job loss would be a few hundred thousand in total. Other sources will tell you that job loss isn't even an issue. The CBO report also states that jobs will be created over time because of the increase in consumer demand.

Here is what really matters: 600 economists, including 7 Nobel prize winners, signed a letter in support of Obama raising the minimum wage. Stop being brainwashed by scumbag republicans who don't give a shit about you and listen to the actual experts.

Wendy's where I had gone to lunch, just raised their prices recently. Which oddly coincides with Ohio which recently raise the state minimum wage.

I was actually working at McDonalds, back in the 90s, when they raise the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.25. First thing they did was lay off three part time employees, and the second was cut portion sizes.

Dude.... it's called economics. In fact, it's simpler than even that. It's called 4th grade math.

When you have X dollars coming in, and Z dollars going out, X must be greater than Z. Or you go broke. The biggest fraction of Z, is labor cost. When you drastically increase labor costs, you must increase X dollars revenue in proportion.

Basic math. Anyone who has run so much as a lemonade stand, would understand this. Why don't you? Because you read some egg-head Ivy Tower Economist that has never run a lemonade stand himself?

If you really think there is no negative effect to raising the minimum wage, then why not $50/hr? Every economist, even those who support the minimum wage, agree that raising the minimum wage will have a negative effect. They simply believe that it won't be as bad, if you raise it very slowly.

Well.... they are wrong on that point. I've seen it first hand. I work with small business owners all the time.

Funny how people who have never run anything at all in their whole lives, believe they are more credible on business policy, than people who have been in business their whole lives.

Arrogant ignorance. Hallmark of the left.

 

[LOki]

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

Minimum Wage has never caused more Unemployment. You don't have any evidence supporting otherwise. If you do, let's have it. I'm an open-minded individual.

I have submitted and explained to you the well established economic principles that describe how statutory minimum wage is necessarily harmful to the economy.

I have examined plenty of data... yet none of it was corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities) that are active in the same time periods.

An injured athlete pumped full of pain-killers and cortisone feels and functions just fine... would you still say he was not harmed?

Of course not.

Do you have such data--corrected for the anti-inflation, and counter unemployment policies (and other confounding externalities)--that would so soundly refute the points I submitted? If so, please present them so we can examine them together.

So you have no actual facts or evidence proving Minimum Wage has ever caused Unemployment to rise. Thanks. That's what i've been saying all along. You guys are so wrong, so often. Why should anyone believe you?

I also told you this:

No proof whatsoever Minimum Wage causes Unemployment to rise. Unemployment goes up, Unemployment goes down. There are other numerous variables involved. Minimum Wage has little, if any impact at all.

You have been presented with the logically valid argument that making low wage jobs illegal through statutory minimum wage, results in the loss of low wage jobs--unemployment

You have been presented with well established economic principles that state statutory minimum wage causes unemployment.

You have been presented with evidence that supports both the argument, and the well established economic principles that statutory minimum wage results in unemployment.

Yet you still require "proof." You require the real world to overcome your obtuse denial of reality.

This, can't happen. It is a logical impossibility!

So instead, bring proof that statutory minimum wage is some kind of solution, or relief, for poverty. And I mean PROOF, Pumpkin. No bullshit anecdotes; no ad-hominerm arguments; no mawkish appeals to emotion.

Explain to us why you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth.

 

[JoeMoma]

You hit the nail on the head with this post, in contradiction to your post number 964. No one forces anyone to hire workers, but raising the minimum wage can force businesses not to hire someone or even to close up shop.....just like you said.

That's never been proven to be the case in the past. If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down. If you need to hire workers, you're just gonna have to deal with the fact you'll pay em a survivable wage. They have families to take care of as well. They're not your slaves.

Damn! First you say it has not been proven ( that raising minimum wage caused unemployment) but then in your next sentence you say that those that can't afford minimum wage don't belong in business. Well which is it? When the minimum wage doubles and the businesses that no longer can afford paying minimum wage go out of business, what do you think will happen to unemployment?

Doubled in one year or doubled over a 10 year period?

If the minimum wage is not raised over a significant number of years, then the economy will eventually outgrow the minimum wage because there will practically not be one due to inflation. Although I am not for a minimum wage, I realize the political implications of it. As such, the politically smart thing for the republicans to do would be to vote in an increase to the minimum wage to perhaps $10 per hour and then tie it into the inflation rate.
To answer your question, doubling the minimum wage over 10 years would not be anywhere near as stressful to businesses as doubling it in one year. If the minimum wage were tied to the inflation rate, then a doubling in ten years would be due to an an inflation rate of approximately 7% over the ten year period.

That is the most illogical response I've seen yet.

Moreover, that's been tried. Greece tried that. That cause such a high unemployment rate, that they had to freeze the minimum wage again, and then LOWER it.

Seriously.... think about dude.... you are business owner, and every single year, your cost of doing business goes up. What happens? If you raise your prices every single year, people stop buying. Then you lay off your people, and move to another country.

Holy smoke! That sounds like exactly what happened in Greece? Yeah, because it is.

Greece had more problems than just the minimum wage. Canada which also indexes the minimum wage to inflation is doing fine. If the minimum wage isn't set too high to start with, this will not cause the sky to fall because the effective minimum wage stays relatively the same each year relative to inflation and the value of the dollar. That being said, if it were up to me there would be no minimum wage. However, the minimum wage is here to stay from a political standpoint. Thus, from a political standpoint it would be wise to set it at a value that we can live with and index it to inflation.

 

[LOki]

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

So you're saying sellers will raise their prices in response to a labor cost increase for them ?

Duh

Duh. They're gonna raise prices anyway. Minimum Wage has nothing to do with it. It never has.

So you're saying that labor costs have nothing to do with the price of goods and services?

So why don't you open a popcorn business and pay everyone 15 an hour and only sell your popcorn for 50 cents a bag?

Let's see how long you last.

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

Of course not.

Statutory minimum wage simply denies employers the employees that would work for less than the statutory minimum.

Statutory minimum wage denies workers those jobs.

Explain your objection to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth.

 

[LOki]

If you can't afford to pay someone Minimum Wage, you don't belong in business. It's real simple in the end, either you do the work yourself, or shut it down.

That's exactly what MW laws are all about.

Workers don't exist to be personal slaves.

Of course not. Workers whose work is worth more than the statutory minimum wage should not have their productivity taken at gunpoint to subsidize the wages of those whose work is worth less than the statutory minimum.

And no one is forced to hire workers.

Of course not.

And no one should be forced to pay an employee more than what their work is worth... after all no one is forcing workers to work either.

You don't wanna pay em, do the work yourself. Or get family members to volunteer their time to better your business.

No one is talking about not paying workers for their work, Princess.

Workers are people too.

Not in dispute.

They have bills and families to support.

How will your "statutory minimum wage or nothing" be of help to those who don't get the statutory minimum?

Where two consenting adults voluntarily and mutually agree to what some bit of work is worth; upon what moral authority do you declare such an agreement illegal if it says the work is worth less than what you think it's worth?

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[LOki]

Duh

Duh. They're gonna raise prices anyway. Minimum Wage has nothing to do with it. It never has.

So you're saying that labor costs have nothing to do with the price of goods and services?

So why don't you open a popcorn business and pay everyone 15 an hour and only sell your popcorn for 50 cents a bag?

Let's see how long you last.

If you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, either do the work yourself, or close up shop. No one forces anyone to hire workers.

Why is it you never answer a direct question I ask you?

Let's try again

Why is it you believe that one 40 hour a week job has to pay anyone enough to cover all their living expenses?

When I was young and inexperienced I worked one full time job and at least one other part time job to earn enough to pay my bills I didn't need any food stamps or any other charity.

Here's question 2

Do you think labor costs have a direct correlation to the cost of the products or services offered by a business?

So now answer these and we can continue if you refuse to answer then we're done here

Seriously, you can't pay someone Minimum Wage, just shut up and do the work yourself. Workers aren't your personal slaves. They have bills and families to take of too. They don't exist to make you wealthier. That's your responsibility.

And businesses don't exist to pay the bills of their employees.

Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[rdean]

the most important aspect of this is NEVER MENTIONED. Not a word. That is the increase in DISPOSABLE INCOME resulting in INCREASES SALES$$$.

If I pay my employees another $500,000 a year, are my sales supposed to increase by $500,000?
Is that supposed to be an even trade?

I don't understand how you can be so dense. The economic benefits of raising the minimum wage would occur because the change would happen in the entire economy. Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

Overall, a good portion of the economy would have more disposable income, so yeah, business in general would see an increase in demand.

And the increase still leaves them less profitable.

It would initially, yes, but over time the huge boom in consumer spending would change that.

Yea, it would make it better. People with money buy stuff. Who doesn't know that?

When the purchasing power of those already making the proposed wage see all thier costs rise they will not be able to buy as much will they?

So you make it possible for a few people to buy more (maybe) and you reduce the purchasing power of everyone else.

Supply and demand is what makes the price of goods rise. If no one wants it, no one will buy it.

 

[Dragonlady]

There is a lot of pent up demand right now. People want to buy but they have no money. Getting more cash into the hands of lower income workers would boost sales.

 

[danielpalos]

I agree; we should abolish a natural rate of unemployment and that burden on Commerce.