Minimum Wage Increase: They Never Talks About the SALES

[LOki]

Yes. It is essential to ignore the economic realities of statutory minimum wage in order claim it benefits everyone and harms no one.

Have you not been paying attention to these chuckleheads?

How could it harm anyone ? (if the exemptions mentioned earlier, were given to the few companies who could show a hardship condition)

Statutory minimum wage necessarily results in dis-employment and inflation.

Before you bring links to data to refute this consequence established in long standing economic principle, make sure it is corrected for all the anti-inflation and counter-unemployment (and other confounding externalities) policy implemented at the same time. Good luck with that.

Furthermore, statutory minimum wage devalues wages. Such is the necessary consequence of making work that is worth less than the statutory minimum, cost the statutory minimum wage. It's not inescapable. It is a mathematical and economic truth.

Artificially devaluing the rewards for productive capacity (by artificially making $1.00/hr worth of work pay any amount more, say $15.00/hr, for instance) requires more money to be printed because buyers and sellers still know what shit is worth regardless of what the government says about the dollars. Printing more money, without also increasing productivity must lead inevitably to inflation. It does so because there is just more money around--printing new money is not the same thing as creating new wealth.

Introducing all that new money into the economy will not make every citizen more wealthy--they will just have more money. Having more money is of little consolation when it takes twice your daily wages to get a day's worth of food.

The real irony is that those who propose these "wage justice" ponzi schemes do so for the alleged benefit of the poor; yet inflation can benefit the rich that these assholes are opposed to on their bullshit principles. Inflation benefits those who can afford to put their excess wealth into real goods like land, durable goods, stocks, and art. So, if these folks have excess stuff to sell, stuff purchased at pre-inflationary prices--stocks perhaps, they not only get to experience capital gains (if the value of the stock grew) but also the profits from the new inflated price structure.

Those who can merely save, get crushed by the fact that the $10.00 they set aside last week will be worth only $9.00 next week. In fact, everyone who acts as a lender, wether it's being a savings account holder, health insurance owner, IRA, 401k, homeowner's insurance, bond holding, etc., get shafted because the money you are being payed back with is worth less than the money you contributed, which cuts into, or negates your interest dividend.

So, those who can afford $5.00 cups of coffee (or $10.00 loaves of bread) and still have money left over are the ones who are able to invest. Those filty 1%ers--they are the ones who can sell their cheaply aquired stock at a profit for no other reason than the government drove the price up. And if they still have that same inflated amount of money should inflation recede, they realize a government granted windfall that those unable to afford expensive durable goods, stocks, and $50.00 bowls of cornflakes can't. You should now be able to predict what this (ahem) "trickle-up" economic policy means for those at the top of the economic food chain--particularly those who are already rich: a big fat unearned raise provided artificially, through the use of force, by the government. Those at the bottom get a wage (if they still have a job) that just looks better than the one they had before, but oddly provides so much less. Well done!

Seriously. What is your objection to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[boilermaker55]

Your typical asinine reply. Insult, Nothing of substance is ever said by you. Hollow head.

Just now, I saw another report about the topic of minimum wage increase. This one was on CNN, hosted by Julie Banderas. She was talking to Scott Gamm, of HelpSaveMyDollars.com, a financial website focused on helping consumers save and learn about money. They were talking about the recent 14-1 vote by the city of Los Angeles to raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020.

Scott might be well versed on various aspects pertaining to consumer finances but, on the minimum wage raise, he is waaay off the mark. He said three things about the minimum wage raise topic. And he was WRONG on all three. Gamm merely recited the 3 most commonly heard (and programmed) descriptions about minimum wage raises.

1. He said it would cause jobs to be lost. FALSE! Employers function with a number of employees that bring them the most income/profit. They CANNOT reduce staff. Any more or less employees results in SALES and income reduction. Layoffs result in losses, not gains.

2. He (and Banderas too) said prices would be raised (or fees created) to compensate for the wage losses, and these losses would just be "passed on" to the customers. More FALSE! scare talk. Businesses CANNOT raise prices because they are already fixed at a market price, related to maximization of sales/income. Any change in price (up or down) results in reduction of SALES and income.

3. He said businesses will move away from LA. FALSE! (in most cases). Does Gamm think that closing down a business and moving to another location can be done scott (no pun intended) free ? Depending on the business, moving costs can vary from just barely economical, to completely UNeconomical, and the latter is much more often the case. Imagine a machine shop with over 100 large production machines, having to pack then all up and move miles away. Some businesses could do it. Not many.

So here's the real crux of all this. As in 1000 other media reports I've seen on minimum wage increases, the most important aspect of this is NEVER MENTIONED. Not a word. That is the increase in DISPOSABLE INCOME resulting in INCREASES SALES$$$. All businesses get this, and generally it far outweighs labor increases, since the number of wage raised consumers (not just those at the minimum wage) by far outnumbers any one employer's workers who are getting wage increases.

Then there's also the fact that many business, while receiving this big SALES boost, do NOT have any wage loss at all. These are businesses who are mom & pop and have no employees, those whose workers are all working just on sales commission (car lots, furniture, real estate, insurance, etc), and third, those with skilled workers (ex. machine shops) whose workers all already get well over $15 hour, or whatever the MW would be raised to.

I think back to when I owned a business. I paid my commission salespeople $350/hour (in 2015 dollars), and they still were only receiving 15% of the sale. In all, I made fine profits and expanded the business. Biggest downer ? All the people who called in and said > "Sorry. I can't afford it." Of course they can't. Not one somebody out there is paying them a low minimum wage. To be successful in business, you have a lot fo things to do. But you can't do anything, if the public around you doesn't have money in their pockets to buy what you're trying to sell.

This is why Conservatives who support raising the MW nationwide, outnumber Conservatives who don't, 54% to 44%.

I'm not surprised you support increasing the minimum wage because you are a socialist moron, and you are certainly no conservative.

 

[paulitician]

Still not seeing how the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities.

We have more Millionaires and Billionaires than ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion.

Paying struggling workers a decent wage isn't gonna break the bank. Seriously, it's true. Anyway, have a good Saturday. See ya.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

No one has presented any evidence proving the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities. Again.

Businesses have not only survived it, they've thrived like never before. More Millionaires and Billionaires are being created then ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion. Again.

So when you guys predict the sky falling over raising Minimum Wage, you'll be proven wrong. Just like you've been proven wrong the other numerous times you predicted the sky falling.

This strawman indicts you.

You guys just don't have much credibility on this one. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

Pertaining to Minimum Wage, you guys have no credibility. Your grim predictions on it are always proven wrong. The sky never falls, and it never will. Businesses will survive, and thrive. Bet on it.

 

[LOki]

Still not seeing how the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities.

We have more Millionaires and Billionaires than ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion.

Paying struggling workers a decent wage isn't gonna break the bank. Seriously, it's true. Anyway, have a good Saturday. See ya.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

No one has presented any evidence proving the Minimum Wage has ever hurt the U.S. Economy.

This has been explained to you. You offer no contest; just denial of well established economic realities. Again.

Businesses have not only survived it, they've thrived like never before. More Millionaires and Billionaires are being created then ever before in our history.

Not relevant. Just another distracting appeal to emotion. Again.

So when you guys predict the sky falling over raising Minimum Wage, you'll be proven wrong. Just like you've been proven wrong the other numerous times you predicted the sky falling.

This strawman indicts you.

You guys just don't have much credibility on this one. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Patently wrong for OBVIOUS reasons.

Pertaining to Minimum Wage, you guys have no credibility. Your grim predictions on it are always proven wrong. The sky never falls, and it never will. Businesses will survive, and thrive. Bet on it.

This strawman indicts you.

Seriously. What is your objection to simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[paulitician]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

Yes. It is essential to ignore the economic realities of statutory minimum wage in order claim it benefits everyone and harms no one.

Have you not been paying attention to these chuckleheads?

When someone pays taxes and has disposable income to spend back into the economy, everyone does benefit. As opposed to depending on Entitlements to survive.

People like you especially, better hope & pray citizens start getting paid better. You're the ones who bitch the most about their taxes being raised. More citizens depending on Entitlements, is gonna cost you much more in the end. It would be wise to pay them more and allow them to pay taxes and have some disposable income.

OK. Let's assume we are just talking about someone who really wants to work, and not some glue-huffing retard who thinks his dedication to wearing black fingernail polish, rather than work is merit enough for a rock star's paycheck. Lets also say that "welfare" pays the equvalent of $6.50/hr. What statutory minimum wage says is that even if this guy who wants to work, wanted to work for $7.00/hr, it would be a crime to do so.

That despite the agreement between him and the employer that the job is worth $7.00/hr, the government rolls in and declares (in the name of social justice) that this worker's efforts are worth nothing--so much so in fact, that they are willing to pay him $6.50/hr to do nothing!

Not only does this guy get less than he could earn, we don't even get the benefit of his services--the job is not being done, or if it is, it's being done by some poor schlep who's desperately trying hard to merit his $15k/year job so he doesn't have to be a $11k/year welfare recipient himself--or, this work being done by someone, like you perhaps, who is getting paid well in excess of the minimum wage because your effort merits it, but now your productivity suffers because you are scrubbing the men's room urinals instead of the actual job you were hired for. Then you wonder why you get no raise despite the fact that you're doing both your job and that of the janitor. Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth

It's really not that complicated... Either you have a nation of Citizens working, paying taxes, spending money back into the economy, or you have a nation of too many Citizens relying on Government Entitlements to survive.

Personally, i'm going with paying em a survivable wage. It'll come back around to benefit us all in the end. But hey, that's just me. And you guys who are always bitchin & moanin about your taxes being raised, better consider getting on board as well.

 

[LOki]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

Yes. It is essential to ignore the economic realities of statutory minimum wage in order claim it benefits everyone and harms no one.

Have you not been paying attention to these chuckleheads?

When someone pays taxes and has disposable income to spend back into the economy, everyone does benefit. As opposed to depending on Entitlements to survive.

People like you especially, better hope & pray citizens start getting paid better. You're the ones who bitch the most about their taxes being raised. More citizens depending on Entitlements, is gonna cost you much more in the end. It would be wise to pay them more and allow them to pay taxes and have some disposable income.

OK. Let's assume we are just talking about someone who really wants to work, and not some glue-huffing retard who thinks his dedication to wearing black fingernail polish, rather than work is merit enough for a rock star's paycheck. Lets also say that "welfare" pays the equvalent of $6.50/hr. What statutory minimum wage says is that even if this guy who wants to work, wanted to work for $7.00/hr, it would be a crime to do so.

That despite the agreement between him and the employer that the job is worth $7.00/hr, the government rolls in and declares (in the name of social justice) that this worker's efforts are worth nothing--so much so in fact, that they are willing to pay him $6.50/hr to do nothing!

Not only does this guy get less than he could earn, we don't even get the benefit of his services--the job is not being done, or if it is, it's being done by some poor schlep who's desperately trying hard to merit his $15k/year job so he doesn't have to be a $11k/year welfare recipient himself--or, this work being done by someone, like you perhaps, who is getting paid well in excess of the minimum wage because your effort merits it, but now your productivity suffers because you are scrubbing the men's room urinals instead of the actual job you were hired for. Then you wonder why you get no raise despite the fact that you're doing both your job and that of the janitor. Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth

It's really not that complicated... Either you have a nation of Citizens working, paying taxes, spending money back into the economy, or you have a nation of too many Citizens relying on Government Entitlements to survive.

I'm not disagreeing with this.

I'm telling you that statutory minimum wage can't solve for that. It's not even part of the solution... it's part of the problem.

Increasing the statutory minimum will only makes things worse. It is a mathematical and economic reality.

Personally, i'm going with paying em a survivable wage. It'll come back around to benefit us all in the end.

No it won't. It's like standing in a bucket, and trying pull yourself up by the handle. This has been explained to you.

But hey, that's just me.

And you're just deliberately obtuse.

And you guys who are always bitchin & moanin about your taxes being raised, better consider getting on board as well.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board" with that?

 

[paulitician]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

The Minimum Wage does not adversely effect the Economy. There just isn't any evidence it ever has. Businesses have not only always survived it, they've thrived. So let's do the right thing and make more citizens tax-paying productive citizens. We'll all benefit from it in the end.

The alternative is much much worse. Having millions more citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, will cost us a whole lot more. You think your taxes are too high now? Just wait. If we continue down this road, you ain't seen nothin yet.

 

[paulitician]

Of course they will.

When labor costs which for many business is the single largest expense rise then prices necessarily have to rise.

Tell me what do you think the average profit margin of a business is anyway?

So you haven't read this thread, where it was established long ago that price hikes are impossible. You haven't read the thread, have you.

It's just more doom & gloom sky is falling from the usual suspects. It never happens. And it won't happen this time either. They've never been right when it comes to the Minimum Wage issue. All they have is hysterical fear mongering.

 

[paulitician]

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

Yes. It is essential to ignore the economic realities of statutory minimum wage in order claim it benefits everyone and harms no one.

Have you not been paying attention to these chuckleheads?

When someone pays taxes and has disposable income to spend back into the economy, everyone does benefit. As opposed to depending on Entitlements to survive.

People like you especially, better hope & pray citizens start getting paid better. You're the ones who bitch the most about their taxes being raised. More citizens depending on Entitlements, is gonna cost you much more in the end. It would be wise to pay them more and allow them to pay taxes and have some disposable income.

OK. Let's assume we are just talking about someone who really wants to work, and not some glue-huffing retard who thinks his dedication to wearing black fingernail polish, rather than work is merit enough for a rock star's paycheck. Lets also say that "welfare" pays the equvalent of $6.50/hr. What statutory minimum wage says is that even if this guy who wants to work, wanted to work for $7.00/hr, it would be a crime to do so.

That despite the agreement between him and the employer that the job is worth $7.00/hr, the government rolls in and declares (in the name of social justice) that this worker's efforts are worth nothing--so much so in fact, that they are willing to pay him $6.50/hr to do nothing!

Not only does this guy get less than he could earn, we don't even get the benefit of his services--the job is not being done, or if it is, it's being done by some poor schlep who's desperately trying hard to merit his $15k/year job so he doesn't have to be a $11k/year welfare recipient himself--or, this work being done by someone, like you perhaps, who is getting paid well in excess of the minimum wage because your effort merits it, but now your productivity suffers because you are scrubbing the men's room urinals instead of the actual job you were hired for. Then you wonder why you get no raise despite the fact that you're doing both your job and that of the janitor. Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth

It's really not that complicated... Either you have a nation of Citizens working, paying taxes, spending money back into the economy, or you have a nation of too many Citizens relying on Government Entitlements to survive.

I'm not disagreeing with this.

I'm telling you that statutory minimum wage can't solve for that. It's not even part of the solution... it's part of the problem.

Increasing the statutory minimum will only makes things worse. It is a mathematical and economic reality.

Personally, i'm going with paying em a survivable wage. It'll come back around to benefit us all in the end.

No it won't. It's like standing in a bucket, and trying pull yourself up by the handle. This has been explained to you.

But hey, that's just me.

And you're just deliberately obtuse.

And you guys who are always bitchin & moanin about your taxes being raised, better consider getting on board as well.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board" with that?

Pay em a survivable wage now, or you'll pay much more down the road. If you are concerned about your taxes being raised, i would advise you get on board. More citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, is gonna cost you dearly.

 

[paulitician]

Man, if i had a nickel everytime a greedy wanker predicted the sky falling over raising Minimum Wage. It just doesn't happen. If you can't pay a fellow American a decent wage, than simply close up shop. Another business will step in and take your place. It is what it is.

 

[danielpalos]

Why not end simple poverty by abolishing a natural rate of unemployment via the socialism of the rule-of-law on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States; just Socialism bailing out Capitalism, like business as usual.

 

[Andylusion]

Just now, I saw another report about the topic of minimum wage increase. This one was on CNN, hosted by Julie Banderas. She was talking to Scott Gamm, of HelpSaveMyDollars.com, a financial website focused on helping consumers save and learn about money. They were talking about the recent 14-1 vote by the city of Los Angeles to raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020.

Scott might be well versed on various aspects pertaining to consumer finances but, on the minimum wage raise, he is waaay off the mark. He said three things about the minimum wage raise topic. And he was WRONG on all three. Gamm merely recited the 3 most commonly heard (and programmed) descriptions about minimum wage raises.

1. He said it would cause jobs to be lost. FALSE! Employers function with a number of employees that bring them the most income/profit. They CANNOT reduce staff. Any more or less employees results in SALES and income reduction. Layoffs result in losses, not gains.

2. He (and Banderas too) said prices would be raised (or fees created) to compensate for the wage losses, and these losses would just be "passed on" to the customers. More FALSE! scare talk. Businesses CANNOT raise prices because they are already fixed at a market price, related to maximization of sales/income. Any change in price (up or down) results in reduction of SALES and income.

3. He said businesses will move away from LA. FALSE! (in most cases). Does Gamm think that closing down a business and moving to another location can be done scott (no pun intended) free ? Depending on the business, moving costs can vary from just barely economical, to completely UNeconomical, and the latter is much more often the case. Imagine a machine shop with over 100 large production machines, having to pack then all up and move miles away. Some businesses could do it. Not many.

So here's the real crux of all this. As in 1000 other media reports I've seen on minimum wage increases, the most important aspect of this is NEVER MENTIONED. Not a word. That is the increase in DISPOSABLE INCOME resulting in INCREASES SALES$$$. All businesses get this, and generally it far outweighs labor increases, since the number of wage raised consumers (not just those at the minimum wage) by far outnumbers any one employer's workers who are getting wage increases.

Then there's also the fact that many business, while receiving this big SALES boost, do NOT have any wage loss at all. These are businesses who are mom & pop and have no employees, those whose workers are all working just on sales commission (car lots, furniture, real estate, insurance, etc), and third, those with skilled workers (ex. machine shops) whose workers all already get well over $15 hour, or whatever the MW would be raised to.

I think back to when I owned a business. I paid my commission salespeople $350/hour (in 2015 dollars), and they still were only receiving 15% of the sale. In all, I made fine profits and expanded the business. Biggest downer ? All the people who called in and said > "Sorry. I can't afford it." Of course they can't. Not one somebody out there is paying them a low minimum wage. To be successful in business, you have a lot fo things to do. But you can't do anything, if the public around you doesn't have money in their pockets to buy what you're trying to sell.

This is why Conservatives who support raising the MW nationwide, outnumber Conservatives who don't, 54% to 44%.

Wow... How many absolutely ignorant foolish claims can be made in one post?

Of course raising the minimum wage cuts jobs.

In 2006, the average Walmart had 360 employees. By 2010, the average Walmart had 290 employees.

I worked at a McDonalds in the mid-90s when the minimum wage went up. The first thing they did, was lay off three employees. We had to pick up the slack.

Of course raising the minimum wage is passed right on to customers.

A business doesn't have a single penny, that doesn't come from customers, unless they have a government green-energy grant stolen from tax payers.

The very first thing companies usually do, is cut portion sizes.

I remember when I realized this, was when we had a fry station which had metal fry cup holders.

See the metal fry cup holders at the top? We got in the newest shipment from McDs, and when I put them into the holders, they slipped straight through to the ground. I realized they had reduced the cup sizes.

They continued to reduce sizes over the next year. Eventually the large, was the size of the medium, and medium the small. The small size got so tiny, it was funny... like 4 fries was all it held.

Wendy's even further than McDonalds. They eliminated the small, and introduced the "Biggie" fry.

By the way, here in Ohio, they just in the last few months, raised the State minimum wage. Last year when they passed that law, I wondered how long it would be before all the stores raised their prices. Sure enough, just last month, all the prices went up. They have wait label tape over the original prices, with the new higher price.

They always either cut the portions, or increase prices. Usually a combination of both.

Of course business moves away from higher cost.

That's even more hilarious that you would even attempt to deny that. Isn't it normally you type people screaming about jobs going over seas to China and such?

Of course business moves to where it is less costly, or more profitable to work. You are nutz if you think otherwise.

No, increasing wages arbitrarily doesn't result in more disposable income and economic growth.

If that were even remotely true, then Greece should have been the economic capital of the world. They had been increasing the minimum wage every single year up to the crash.

There was no economic boom. In fact people lost their jobs, and the unemployment rate was up near 30%.

Your myth of the booming economy from the minimum wage is just that. No country has ever increased minimum wage into prosperity.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

The Minimum Wage does not adversely effect the Economy. There just isn't any evidence it ever has. Businesses have not only always survived it, they've thrived. So let's do the right thing and make more citizens tax-paying productive citizens. We'll all benefit from it in the end.

The alternative is much much worse. Having millions more citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, will cost us a whole lot more. You think your taxes are too high now? Just wait. If we continue down this road, you ain't seen nothin yet.

So show me the last time the MW was doubled and then what happened

Never before has the MW been proposed to be more than doubled.

It isn't rocket science to figure out that those who are making close to the proposed MW will see a decrease in spending power because prices across the board will have to rise to accommodate the drastic proposed increase and the people already getting close to the proposed MW will not see any salary increaae

 

[Andylusion]

Man, if i had a nickel everytime a greedy wanker predicted the sky falling over raising Minimum Wage. It just doesn't happen. If you can't pay a fellow American a decent wage, than simply close up shop. Another business will step in and take your place. It is what it is.

Greece. Venezuela. American Somoa.

Man, if I had a nickel everytime some brainless leftard predicted economic utopia over raising the minimum wage. I just doesn't happen. If you can't grasp simple economics, you should be able to observe recent history. Mindless left can't get either one.

 

[dblack]

I think the causative elements have been pretty clearly spelled out. There are solid rational grounds for assuming that banning low-wage jobs would cause higher unemployment, higher inflation, or some combination of the two. I agree that data showing correlation without causation makes for a weak argument, but that's not really what's going on here. The more substantial task is to show that minimum wage laws produce some other result.

So you're saying that sellers will raise their prices in response to a labor cost increase for them ? And you're also saying that sellers will fire employees in response to a labor cost increase for them ?

I'm saying people will avoid paying more for something than it's worth.

 

[paulitician]

Yet businesses in America have managed to survive and thrive for many many years. The sky never fell, like you guys predicted. There is no evidence proving any business in America has ever gone out of business due to the Minimum Wage. If you can't pay Minimum Wage, than it's time for you to close up shop. It wasn't meant to be for you. It is what it is.

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

The Minimum Wage does not adversely effect the Economy. There just isn't any evidence it ever has. Businesses have not only always survived it, they've thrived. So let's do the right thing and make more citizens tax-paying productive citizens. We'll all benefit from it in the end.

The alternative is much much worse. Having millions more citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, will cost us a whole lot more. You think your taxes are too high now? Just wait. If we continue down this road, you ain't seen nothin yet.

So show me the last time the MW was doubled and then what happened

Never before has the MW been proposed to be more than doubled.

It isn't rocket science to figure out that those who are making close to the proposed MW will see a decrease in spending power because prices across the board will have to rise to accommodate the drastic proposed increase and the people already getting close to the proposed MW will not see any salary increaae

Let's be real, $9 an hr is gonna make anyone rich. In fact, that's pretty much shite nowadays. My God, just rent alone, is a killer in today's America. The Minimum Wage needs to be at least somewhere between $10-$12.

With that, more will pay taxes and maybe even have some disposable income to spend back into the economy. It'll benefit us all in the long run. It's the logical alternative to supporting millions more who'll need Government Entitlements to survive.

 

[LOki]

Yes. It is essential to ignore the economic realities of statutory minimum wage in order claim it benefits everyone and harms no one.

Have you not been paying attention to these chuckleheads?

When someone pays taxes and has disposable income to spend back into the economy, everyone does benefit. As opposed to depending on Entitlements to survive.

People like you especially, better hope & pray citizens start getting paid better. You're the ones who bitch the most about their taxes being raised. More citizens depending on Entitlements, is gonna cost you much more in the end. It would be wise to pay them more and allow them to pay taxes and have some disposable income.

OK. Let's assume we are just talking about someone who really wants to work, and not some glue-huffing retard who thinks his dedication to wearing black fingernail polish, rather than work is merit enough for a rock star's paycheck. Lets also say that "welfare" pays the equvalent of $6.50/hr. What statutory minimum wage says is that even if this guy who wants to work, wanted to work for $7.00/hr, it would be a crime to do so.

That despite the agreement between him and the employer that the job is worth $7.00/hr, the government rolls in and declares (in the name of social justice) that this worker's efforts are worth nothing--so much so in fact, that they are willing to pay him $6.50/hr to do nothing!

Not only does this guy get less than he could earn, we don't even get the benefit of his services--the job is not being done, or if it is, it's being done by some poor schlep who's desperately trying hard to merit his $15k/year job so he doesn't have to be a $11k/year welfare recipient himself--or, this work being done by someone, like you perhaps, who is getting paid well in excess of the minimum wage because your effort merits it, but now your productivity suffers because you are scrubbing the men's room urinals instead of the actual job you were hired for. Then you wonder why you get no raise despite the fact that you're doing both your job and that of the janitor. Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth

It's really not that complicated... Either you have a nation of Citizens working, paying taxes, spending money back into the economy, or you have a nation of too many Citizens relying on Government Entitlements to survive.

I'm not disagreeing with this.

I'm telling you that statutory minimum wage can't solve for that. It's not even part of the solution... it's part of the problem.

Increasing the statutory minimum will only makes things worse. It is a mathematical and economic reality.

Personally, i'm going with paying em a survivable wage. It'll come back around to benefit us all in the end.

No it won't. It's like standing in a bucket, and trying pull yourself up by the handle. This has been explained to you.

But hey, that's just me.

And you're just deliberately obtuse.

And you guys who are always bitchin & moanin about your taxes being raised, better consider getting on board as well.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board" with that?

Pay em a survivable wage now,...

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I "pay em a survivable wage"?

... or you'll pay much more down the road.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I "...pay much more down the road"?

If you are concerned about your taxes being raised, i would advise you get on board.

Yes. I read that the first time. Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board"?

More citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, is gonna cost you dearly.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should it cost me dearly?

Why won't you explain to me what's wrong with simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

WHY DON'T YOU?

 

[dblack]

Here's another attempt at shedding some light on this. A question, for those who insist raising minimum wages will have a positive net effect. Would setting and raising minimum prices on all goods and services have the same effect? Shouldn't we do that as well for the same reasons?

 

[paulitician]

When someone pays taxes and has disposable income to spend back into the economy, everyone does benefit. As opposed to depending on Entitlements to survive.

People like you especially, better hope & pray citizens start getting paid better. You're the ones who bitch the most about their taxes being raised. More citizens depending on Entitlements, is gonna cost you much more in the end. It would be wise to pay them more and allow them to pay taxes and have some disposable income.

OK. Let's assume we are just talking about someone who really wants to work, and not some glue-huffing retard who thinks his dedication to wearing black fingernail polish, rather than work is merit enough for a rock star's paycheck. Lets also say that "welfare" pays the equvalent of $6.50/hr. What statutory minimum wage says is that even if this guy who wants to work, wanted to work for $7.00/hr, it would be a crime to do so.

That despite the agreement between him and the employer that the job is worth $7.00/hr, the government rolls in and declares (in the name of social justice) that this worker's efforts are worth nothing--so much so in fact, that they are willing to pay him $6.50/hr to do nothing!

Not only does this guy get less than he could earn, we don't even get the benefit of his services--the job is not being done, or if it is, it's being done by some poor schlep who's desperately trying hard to merit his $15k/year job so he doesn't have to be a $11k/year welfare recipient himself--or, this work being done by someone, like you perhaps, who is getting paid well in excess of the minimum wage because your effort merits it, but now your productivity suffers because you are scrubbing the men's room urinals instead of the actual job you were hired for. Then you wonder why you get no raise despite the fact that you're doing both your job and that of the janitor. Why do you object to simply basing a worker's wage upon what that worker's work is worth

It's really not that complicated... Either you have a nation of Citizens working, paying taxes, spending money back into the economy, or you have a nation of too many Citizens relying on Government Entitlements to survive.

I'm not disagreeing with this.

I'm telling you that statutory minimum wage can't solve for that. It's not even part of the solution... it's part of the problem.

Increasing the statutory minimum will only makes things worse. It is a mathematical and economic reality.

Personally, i'm going with paying em a survivable wage. It'll come back around to benefit us all in the end.

No it won't. It's like standing in a bucket, and trying pull yourself up by the handle. This has been explained to you.

But hey, that's just me.

And you're just deliberately obtuse.

And you guys who are always bitchin & moanin about your taxes being raised, better consider getting on board as well.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board" with that?

Pay em a survivable wage now,...

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I "pay em a survivable wage"?

... or you'll pay much more down the road.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I "...pay much more down the road"?

If you are concerned about your taxes being raised, i would advise you get on board.

Yes. I read that the first time. Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should I consider "getting on board"?

More citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, is gonna cost you dearly.

Why? For what morally and intellectually valid reason should it cost me dearly?

Why won't you explain to me what's wrong with simply basing a worker's wages upon what that worker's work is worth?

WHY DON'T YOU?

Very little of this argument has anything to do with morals. Especially with people like you. Point is, you will pay for millions more depending on Government Entitlements for survival. You don't have a choice in that.

 

[Andylusion]

So never mind all the evidence that hiking the minimum wage hurts the very people it's supposed to help? Never mind that hiking the minimum wage ignores the crucial difference between people who work low-income jobs to get through school or for other temporary reasons and people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis and to support or help support a family?

Just never mind fact and reality, right? Just blindly insist on hiking the minimum wage over and over again--and then scratch your head and wonder why our economy continues to have weaker and weaker recoveries, more and more long-term unemployed, and more jobs shipped overseas because companies understandably don't want to pay someone $15 an hour and benefits to do simple jobs like operate a cash register, wash dishes, or clean tables.

Hiking the EITC is an infinitely smarter and better way to help people who work low-income jobs on a long-term basis, especially if they're supporting or helping to support a family. It targets those who need the help, distributes the cost more broadly, and doesn't cause employers to cut back on low-income jobs.

You guys have been proven wrong time after time. The sky doesn't fall over raising Minimum Wage. Businesses will once again survive, and thrive.

and everything will cost more and those who are already making the proposed MW will see their purchasing power drop

Last year the median hourly wage was 17 an hour

so more than half of all workers will not get a raise and will instead see their purchasing power diminish.

How does that help the economy?

The Minimum Wage does not adversely effect the Economy. There just isn't any evidence it ever has. Businesses have not only always survived it, they've thrived. So let's do the right thing and make more citizens tax-paying productive citizens. We'll all benefit from it in the end.

The alternative is much much worse. Having millions more citizens depending on Government Entitlements to survive, will cost us a whole lot more. You think your taxes are too high now? Just wait. If we continue down this road, you ain't seen nothin yet.

So show me the last time the MW was doubled and then what happened

Never before has the MW been proposed to be more than doubled.

It isn't rocket science to figure out that those who are making close to the proposed MW will see a decrease in spending power because prices across the board will have to rise to accommodate the drastic proposed increase and the people already getting close to the proposed MW will not see any salary increaae

Let's be real, $9 an hr is gonna make anyone rich. In fact, that's pretty much shite nowadays. My God, just rent alone, is a killer in today's America. The Minimum Wage needs to be at least somewhere between $10-$12.

With that, more will pay taxes and maybe even have some disposable income to spend back into the economy. It'll benefit us all in the long run. It's the logical alternative to supporting millions more who'll need Government Entitlements to survive.

But see, back in 2006, the prices were lower. And the minimum wage was $5.25. Now it's $7.25 or higher in most places.

Every time you raise the minimum wage, we never have this great big boost in the economy, nor is everyone able to afford everything they want.

It never works. So now it's $7.25, and we're hearing the exact same argument we heard when it was $5.25.

Every time you move the line, the target moves farther away.

And no, it won't benefit us in the long run, because more people will be on government benefits as jobs dry up, as they have EVERY TIME the minimum wage goes up.