Michigan Democrat Mallory McMorrow compares the Trump administration to Nazi Germany

[Hollie]

Ah, you broke TOS just to tell me you like me.

You humiliate yourself with your ignorant babbling.

 

[LoveKimWexler]

You mean like healthcare?

You guys are nothing if not overly-dramatic.

Government regulating healthcare insurance and helping the poor to get it is not centralization of production. You'v not even grasping at straws, you're grasping at a dangling string of spider web.

Are you a socialist?

No, are you?

All State functions, paid for by property taxes.

Which taxes I paid also. Roads, police, fire, etc. all get grants from Uncle Sam.

Nice jab, too bad it’s

How many people does Man With A Plan need answering for him?

Obama WAS anti business.

Then why did they need to falsely edit his quote? Why not just quote all the real anti-business things he said, then?

"Realized" is a term thought of by lawyers to help their millionaire clients freeload off of working and middle class people.

"Taxable income" is a term thought of by lawyers to help their millionaire clients freeload off of working and middle class people.

Yes, that also.

The first was a landscaping business. My people zipped around on safe and efficient roads instead of having to drag their trailers around on dirt paths.

I'll bet you deducted your business expenses before you paid your taxes, eh comrade?

Of course I did. So did the all the millionaires and billionaires MWAP and his helpers are so protective of.

When you budget your personal finances, do you plan for your pre-tax income or your after-tax income? I'm betting it is the latter because you can't buy discount beer and cartons of Marlboros with the money that is witheld.

In my businesses, I had to be a little smarter and pay my taxes quarterly and budget to live off the rest, which was most of it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Of course I did.

That's no fair. You should have to pay tax on your gross income.

 

[LoveKimWexler]

That's no fair. You should have to pay tax on your gross income.

Dood.

The middle-class, working class, and small entrepreneur class are already paying as much as they can reasonably be expected to pay.

That is far different than a multi-millionaire getting to delay his unearned millions per year in capital growth until he dies and then his heirs avoiding paying the capital gains tax altogether.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dood.

The middle-class, working class, and small entrepreneur class are already paying as much as they can reasonably be expected to pay.

That is far different than a multi-millionaire getting to delay his unearned millions per year in capital growth until he dies and then his heirs avoiding paying the capital gains tax altogether.

Using your unfair deductions is unfair.

 

[Man With A Plan]

"Realized" is a term thought of by lawyers to help their millionaire clients freeload off of working and middle class people. The law should change.

Aw, boo-hoo. Yes, I've owned more than one business and I'm in the process of retiring from my current business. I paid my taxes and I filled out and filed my paperwork. The first was a landscaping business. My people zipped around on safe and efficient roads instead of having to drag their trailers around on dirt paths. Police and Fire services protected my business. If there was a problem with a vendor or customer, I had courts of law to go for remedy. Not enough time to list all the ways government helped me with that business and others.

My guess is that you were not good at doing paperwork, but also slowed yourself down while doing it by pausing to feel sorry for yourself.

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Spot on. An excellent point made by President Obama that Republicans truncated to make him look anti-business.

Here's my problem with what you just posted. The "safe and efficient roads" are supposed to paid for by the gasoline taxes that the government socks us with each time we fill up but increasingly governments divert that money to pay for "other" things that they didn't have enough money to fund! Police and Fire? I paid property taxes. Part of that was for Police and Fire. Why should I be "grateful" to the government for something that I've paid for?

The government isn't the benevolent "god father" you seem to think it is...it's more like an organized crime ring that takes a cut from every business in the neighborhood and shuts you down if you don't pay!

 

[LoveKimWexler]

Here's my problem with what you just posted. The "safe and efficient roads" are supposed to paid for by the gasoline taxes that the government socks us with each time we fill up but increasingly governments divert that money to pay for "other" things that they didn't have enough money to fund! Police and Fire? I paid property taxes. Part of that was for Police and Fire. Why should I be "grateful" to the government for something that I've paid for?

The government isn't the benevolent "god father" you seem to think it is...it's more like an organized crime ring that takes a cut from every business in the neighborhood and shuts you down if you don't pay!

You don't have to be grateful. I recognize that there is a purpose for paying taxes and that people should not be allowed to freeload.

Yes, money that was "supposed" to pay for one thing often gets diverted for other things. If they break the law when they do that, you can take them to court. Tax funded court.

Organized crime doesn't build roads, put out fires, or defend the nation. It sometimes profits off the road building through bribery, theft and threats. If the wealthy were not allowed to freeload while piling up wealth through capital gains, law enforcement might have more money to fight organized crime.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You don't have to be grateful. I recognize that there is a purpose for paying taxes and that people should not be allowed to freeload.

Yes, money that was "supposed" to pay for one thing often gets diverted for other things. If they break the law when they do that, you can take them to court. Tax funded court.

Organized crime doesn't build roads, put out fires, or defend the nation. It sometimes profits off the road building through bribery, theft and threats. If the wealthy were not allowed to freeload while piling up wealth through capital gains, law enforcement might have more money to fight organized crime.

I recognize that there is a purpose for paying taxes and that people should not be allowed to freeload.

Freeload? Like deducting your expenses before you pay business taxes?

 

[Man With A Plan]

You don't have to be grateful. I recognize that there is a purpose for paying taxes and that people should not be allowed to freeload.

Yes, money that was "supposed" to pay for one thing often gets diverted for other things. If they break the law when they do that, you can take them to court. Tax funded court.

Organized crime doesn't build roads, put out fires, or defend the nation. It sometimes profits off the road building through bribery, theft and threats. If the wealthy were not allowed to freeload while piling up wealth through capital gains, law enforcement might have more money to fight organized crime.

You love that word "freeload"! Do you not understand that capital gains generally take place when an investment is made? When capital is risked? In my entire life I've never made a capital gain that didn't entail a lot of work and a modicum of risk! Why on earth would that make me a "freeloader"?

You really owned a business? No offense but I find that very hard to believe.

 

[j-mac]

Dood.

The middle-class, working class, and small entrepreneur class are already paying as much as they can reasonably be expected to pay.

That is far different than a multi-millionaire getting to delay his unearned millions per year in capital growth until he dies and then his heirs avoiding paying the capital gains tax altogether.

Envy is no way to live.

 

[LoveKimWexler]

I recognize that there is a purpose for paying taxes and that people should not be allowed to freeload.

Freeload? Like deducting your expenses before you pay business taxes?

A business expense reduced the profits on which I pay business taxes.

I hope you are playing dumb.

You love that word "freeload"! Do you not understand that capital gains generally take place when an investment is made? When capital is risked? In my entire life I've never made a capital gain that didn't entail a lot of work and a modicum of risk! Why on earth would that make me a "freeloader"?

Because in a year in which you make $20,000 in capital gains and a Fast food worker makes $20,000 flipping burgers, the worker pays taxes that support your investments, but you pay none.

And if if you have a smart tax lawyer or just study the tax laws yourself, you can keep your capital gains in that tax shelter, borrowing against it instead of making withdrawals, and when you die, your estate repays the loan, but your heirs get to not pay any capital gains up to the moment of your death. Then they can re-invest and start the tax-avoidance cycle all over.

That's a free ride.

Unless you are going to tell me that you oppose all taxes period, then you support such freeloading.

You really owned a business? No offense but I find that very hard to believe.

How lucky for me then, that my life is not the least bit affected by what you believe or don't.

Envy is no way to live.

Better to be envious of reality than to be in denial of it.

 

[Man With A Plan]

A business expense reduced the profits on which I pay business taxes.

I hope you are playing dumb.

Because in a year in which you make $20,000 in capital gains and a Fast food worker makes $20,000 flipping burgers, the worker pays taxes that support your investments, but you pay none.

And if if you have a smart tax lawyer or just study the tax laws yourself, you can keep your capital gains in that tax shelter, borrowing against it instead of making withdrawals, and when you die, your estate repays the loan, but your heirs get to not pay any capital gains up to the moment of your death. Then they can re-invest and start the tax-avoidance cycle all over.

That's a free ride.

Unless you are going to tell me that you oppose all taxes period, then you support such freeloading.

How lucky for me then, that my life is not the least bit affected by what you believe or don't.


Better to be envious of reality than to be in denial of it.

If I made $20,000 in capital gains I'd be paying $3,000 in taxes if it was a long term capital gain and $4,400 in taxes if it was a short term capital gain. By my calculation that burger flipper would be paying $705 dollars in federal income tax. Did you want to explain why I'm a "freeloader" and the burger flipper isn't?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A business expense reduced the profits on which I pay business taxes.

Why should business owners get to do that?
If you do that, you'll only be paying taxes on "realized" earnings.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A business expense reduced the profits on which I pay business taxes.

I hope you are playing dumb.

Because in a year in which you make $20,000 in capital gains and a Fast food worker makes $20,000 flipping burgers, the worker pays taxes that support your investments, but you pay none.

And if if you have a smart tax lawyer or just study the tax laws yourself, you can keep your capital gains in that tax shelter, borrowing against it instead of making withdrawals, and when you die, your estate repays the loan, but your heirs get to not pay any capital gains up to the moment of your death. Then they can re-invest and start the tax-avoidance cycle all over.

That's a free ride.

Unless you are going to tell me that you oppose all taxes period, then you support such freeloading.

How lucky for me then, that my life is not the least bit affected by what you believe or don't.


Better to be envious of reality than to be in denial of it.

Because in a year in which you make $20,000 in capital gains and a Fast food worker makes $20,000 flipping burgers, the worker pays taxes that support your investments, but you pay none.

And if if you have a smart tax lawyer or just study the tax laws yourself, you can keep your capital gains in that tax shelter, borrowing against it instead of making withdrawals, and when you die, your estate repays the loan, but your heirs get to not pay any capital gains up to the moment of your death. Then they can re-invest and start the tax-avoidance cycle all over.

That's a free ride.

Instead of paying 15% or 20% once, you're going to pay 6% or more a year, forever?

 

[LoveKimWexler]

Why should business owners get to do that?
If you do that, you'll only be paying taxes on "realized" earnings.

If I were allowed to keep the majority of my company's profits in a company account and not pay taxes on it unless I withdrew the money for personal expenses, you'd be right. But my business profits were "passed through" to my personal taxes every year, not just however often I took an owner draw.

I got some breaks by being able to write off equipment faster than it actually depreciated. If you want to call those kind of business tax breaks "freeloading" you'd have a slightly better point. But I'm not here to do your thinking for you.

Instead of paying 15% or 20% once, you're going to pay 6% or more a year, forever?

Of course, dood.

Say you have $1,000,000 in capital gains in an account you created specifically for retirement. Now you want to stop working. You can withdraw $100K for the first year and pay 20% tax, or you can borrow $100K and pay 6% interest per year. You would be ahead until the 4th year.

But . . . the 100K you borrowed against is still in your investment account earning more capital gains. If it earns 10% per year then you are netting 4% a year (10% growth - 6% interest) along with not having to pay that 20%.

In the unlikely event it earned only 5% then your net loss is 1% per year. But it would take twenty years to catch up with that 20% taxes you avoided, and by that time you're likely dead and your heirs pay no tax on the capital gains up until the moment of your death.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If I were allowed to keep the majority of my company's profits in a company account and not pay taxes on it unless I withdrew the money for personal expenses, you'd be right. But my business profits were "passed through" to my personal taxes every year, not just however often I took an owner draw.

I got some breaks by being able to write off equipment faster than it actually depreciated. If you want to call those kind of business tax breaks "freeloading" you'd have a slightly better point. But I'm not here to do your thinking for you.


Of course, dood.

Say you have $1,000,000 in capital gains in an account you created specifically for retirement. Now you want to stop working. You can withdraw $100K for the first year and pay 20% tax, or you can borrow $100K and pay 6% interest per year. You would be ahead until the 4th year.

But . . . the 100K you borrowed against is still in your investment account earning more capital gains. If it earns 10% per year then you are netting 4% a year (10% growth - 6% interest) along with not having to pay that 20%.

In the unlikely event it earned only 5% then your net loss is 1% per year. But it would take twenty years to catch up with that 20% taxes you avoided, and by that time you're likely dead and your heirs pay no tax on the capital gains up until the moment of your death.

If I were allowed to keep the majority of my company's profits in a company account and not pay taxes on it unless I withdrew the money for personal expenses, you'd be right.

You still owe corporate taxes on realized corporate profit whether you take a distribution or not.

Say you have $1,000,000 in capital gains in an account you created specifically for retirement. Now you want to stop working. You can withdraw $100K for the first year and pay 20% tax, or you can borrow $100K and pay 6% interest per year. You would be ahead until the 4th year.

And then you're behind more and more, every year after.

But . . . the 100K you borrowed against is still in your investment account earning more capital gains.

Or it declined in value and you still have more interest accruing every year.

 

[Man With A Plan]

A business expense reduced the profits on which I pay business taxes.

I hope you are playing dumb.

Because in a year in which you make $20,000 in capital gains and a Fast food worker makes $20,000 flipping burgers, the worker pays taxes that support your investments, but you pay none.

And if if you have a smart tax lawyer or just study the tax laws yourself, you can keep your capital gains in that tax shelter, borrowing against it instead of making withdrawals, and when you die, your estate repays the loan, but your heirs get to not pay any capital gains up to the moment of your death. Then they can re-invest and start the tax-avoidance cycle all over.

That's a free ride.

Unless you are going to tell me that you oppose all taxes period, then you support such freeloading.

How lucky for me then, that my life is not the least bit affected by what you believe or don't.


Better to be envious of reality than to be in denial of it.

I'm curious...how do you get your capital gain into the tax shelter without having to pay a capital gains tax? The government isn't going to let you do that. You don't have a clue how this really works...do you?

 

[LoveKimWexler]

If I made $20,000 in capital gains I'd be paying $3,000 in taxes if it was a long term capital gain and $4,400 in taxes if it was a short term capital gain. By my calculation that burger flipper would be paying $705 dollars in federal income tax. Did you want to explain why I'm a "freeloader" and the burger flipper isn't?

You would be freeloading for the years that you would be allowed to not pay any tax at all on your capital gains, while the burger flipper has to pay the $705 every year.

I guess that burger flipper needs to make million dollar donations to Republican lawmakers so she can get that kind of favoritism, huh?

 

[LoveKimWexler]

I'm curious...how do you get your capital gain into the tax shelter without having to pay a capital gains tax? The government isn't going to let you do that. You don't have a clue how this really works...do you?

The capital gains is the tax shelter, because you are not required to pay taxes on them. That's why millionaires prefer to borrow against their capital gains rather than "realize" them.

You have a hard time with English? Are you an illegal alien who refuses to learn the language?

If I were allowed to keep the majority of my company's profits in a company account and not pay taxes on it unless I withdrew the money for personal expenses, you'd be right.

You still owe corporate taxes on realized corporate profit whether you take a distribution or not.

Correct. My small corporations were not a tax shelter. That's my point. Not taxing capital gains makes capital gains the ultimate tax shelter.

Say you have $1,000,000 in capital gains in an account you created specifically for retirement. Now you want to stop working. You can withdraw $100K for the first year and pay 20% tax, or you can borrow $100K and pay 6% interest per year. You would be ahead until the 4th year.

And then you're behind more and more, every year after.

Gosh, you need to explain that to all the millionaires who do exactly what I described to keep from paying taxes. Tell them to fire their financial advisers and hire you Todd the Patriot!

But . . . the 100K you borrowed against is still in your investment account earning more capital gains.

Or it declined in value and you still have more interest accruing every year.

Sure, any investment could lose money. Or you could keep your money under your mattress and lose to inflation. Or you could get a job at McDonalds and find that when you deduct work-related expenses you are really only making about $4.25 per hour not the supposed minimum age of $7.25.

But when you make money, you pay tax. That way the government is funded and the people who make the most money thanks to that government pay the most tax.

Except for capital gains. A set aside welfare program used primarily by millionaires and billionaires who like to legally freeload courtesy of heavily donated-to Republicans. Sadly Democrats go along with this also.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You would be freeloading for the years that you would be allowed to not pay any tax at all on your capital gains, while the burger flipper has to pay the $705 every year.

I guess that burger flipper needs to make million dollar donations to Republican lawmakers so she can get that kind of favoritism, huh?

It's weird, when you have no income, you pay no income tax.

If you're still confused, ask an adult to explain what income is.