Methodist Church Considers HP Company Divestment

[Phoenall]

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

If we can get around the endless propaganda machine and Israeli lobby.

Like ignoring and denying the presence of Jews that lived in Palestine for 4,500 years, 2000 years before any Christians or muslims showed their faces. Then you have to make up fantasy tales of how the arab muslims never invaded Palestine yet the Jews were converted to islam in the process. Have you figured out yet were the time machine is that allowed the muslims to go back to 2,500 B.C.E. and convert Abraham, Moses and Daniel into muslims ?

 

[RoccoR]

"montelatici,

It is the 2006 Outcome for the first (and only election) by Palestinians for national government and Parliament.

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

Yeah, --- I did not mean to confuse you.

Palestinian legislative election, 2006


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Fenton Lum]

I think aware folk know what's going on there with the Israeli's Palestinian cleansing and terrorism.

The same ones that cant find any evidence and still run with the lies.

If it is so widespread as you claim then you will have no problem producing the links. The only cleansing is that of the Christians by the palestinians

You only find the info that supports your belief system. No one can help you with that but you.

Do you also need someone to provide you links on how euros genocided their way into occupation of North America?

So you cant find any links so you try and project your failure. The topic is Isreal/Palestine so keep to the topic and don't try and deflect by bringing in other nations. The other islamonazi propagandists all try that and fail because they are too stupid to keep on topic.


So how about those links to Israeli cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid in Israel ?

I thought you were going to post links proving Israel is not occupying and settling on Paletinian land.

It isn't Palestinian land. It was ottoman land for the last 700 years, then British from about the 1920's to late 1940's, then five Arab nations attacked Israel and even though they were defeated, the Jordanians and Egyptians occupied the West Bank and Gaza for 20 years up to 1967, where the Arabs once again attacked Israel and this time they lost those as well. During the last twenty years of Arabs "occupying" the same lands, there was no whining about an occupation, nor was there a peep from anybody about a "Palestine".

So who should Israel be giving the land back to? The Jordanians and Egyptians? The British? The Turks? And why can't Jews live in their ancestral and religious homeland? Because a bunch of savage Muslims said so?

So who should Israel be giving the land back to?

See, that's what I'm talking about. Where did I say that? I'm sure you have "proof". The term/concept "savage" is always used in a cleansing operation.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

If we can get around the endless propaganda machine and Israeli lobby.

Like ignoring and denying the presence of Jews that lived in Palestine for 4,500 years, 2000 years before any Christians or muslims showed their faces. Then you have to make up fantasy tales of how the arab muslims never invaded Palestine yet the Jews were converted to islam in the process. Have you figured out yet were the time machine is that allowed the muslims to go back to 2,500 B.C.E. and convert Abraham, Moses and Daniel into muslims ?

You'll never get peace in/from a religious war.

 

[Fenton Lum]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Outstanding point Monte. And the Nazi's also only had around 34% support. Thanks for hanging yourself again for us to laugh at.

Palestinians = Nazis, got it. I'm sure veryone's convinced now.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

And what about the Palestinian Jews that also lived there, shows just how even handed you are when you totally ignore and deny the second largest religion in that area prior to 1948

Well that's the issue isn't, they're both going to have to learn to get along. Or not, up to them. The US should get the hell out and let 'em both grow up, and that means cut off Israel's US taxpayer gravy train.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Fenton Lum, et al,

I have to step out of character here for a moment.

"If anyone think that there has been any Empire of the past that has not had a ton of blood on there hands; its a bit naive."

That's not really the question though is it.

(QUESTIONS)

• As for taking whatever you can?
• But if you're attempting to suggest our motives are of a more pure nature today for intervention than those we can pretzel ourselves into rationalizing in the past, not sure I agree.

(COMMENT)

The is no such thing in history as a major power with "pure" motives behind their actions on the road to becoming a Empire or Hegemony. It just as some motives (good or bad); it is just that the motives and be seen as being either more or less (evil or not evil) on the "X" Axis.

However, some of the justifications used today to condemn actions of the past (acceptable in the past but unacceptable today) are billed to be the righteous answer. --- And that in Machiavellian Form, this standard become the only standard (the pure motive) by which to measure the action of the past against. And we know that is simply not true when looked at from a global position.

If, we are to evaluate the actual "legacy, and it's a mess," --- then one of the possible alternatives would have been the victorious Islamic Caliphate over Western Democracy. I could have come to pass that the Jewish National Home is never established, and the Jewish culture is disintegrated. That maybe Arieh Warshel, discovery of computational approach to study functional properties of biological molecules, Serge Haroche methods that enable measuring and manipulation of individual quantum systems," or the other 190 major contributors to human development as Nobel laureates (Chemistry, Economics, Physics, andPhysiology/Medicine,) in a line dating back to a time before the Great War.

We don't know if the current outcome would have been better or worse if the past would have been altered to the point that the messy legacy would have changed for the better. The legacy we have is the culmination in a set conditions that bring us forward. In order for the Allied Powers in 1920, or the British Foreign Office in 1916, or Dr Chaim Weizmann to be inspired in 1907 to promote projects and programs that enabled the JNH to become a reality, a safe haven against tyranny and oppression.

THUS, alternative futures are a waste of time (literally). You just can't go back and tweak one little little thing that would evolve to the outcome you want (the non-messy legacy).

Just My Thought,
Most Respectfully,
R

That's all very lovely. Do we continue to approach these things in the same manner because it has always been approached so, or not? Which goes back to "good money and bodies after bad". Looks to me as if we are, and continue to reap the same outcomes.

 

[Roudy]

Fenton Lum, Roudy, MJB12741, montelatici, et al,

Yes, trying to stay up with the propaganda (both the recommended and non-recommended) is quite a task in itself.

When we talk about the goals and objectives of the Palestinians (destiny kind of stuff), we have to remember that, unlike most governments, there is no truly unified political or diplomatic voice that speaks for the Palestinian People. --- Although that was suppose to have been settled some 4 decades ago when the Resolution adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference on 28 October 1974, recognising the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.”

In most conversations, we just assume that we are either talking about HAMAS or the PLO (Khalid Mishaal vs Mahmoud Abbas - respectively); but there are a half-dozen or more factions out there that should not be counted-out just yet.. And in this,you have to be a bit careful. Even as something as simple as, what constitutes "Palestine," is argued even amongst Palestinians.

In the case of HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.And I recommend that we are cautious in the use of the term "Islamist" (which is not the same as a Hostile Arab Palestinian, Islamic fighters, militants or insurgents, extremists or radicals or asymmetric opponents, --- who may or may not be Islamists.

Today, the Middle East is so filled with hostiles, radicals, and fundamentalist, that you almost need a scorecard to keep track of them.

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE on HAMAS)

(COMMENT)

As you can tell by the Khalid Mishaal quote, that HAMAS is keeping it options open; especially in regards to excessive devotion to Islam and the idea of a Caliphate. For Palestine, this is a tightrope. HAMAS and the Palestinians cannot be seen as being on the wrong side of the Koran. If you study Khalid Mishaal, you will notice that he see the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) from three aspect angles:

• A simple Islamic Movement,
• A a very familiar national liberations movement,
• Palestinian rallying point, a new central hub.
​

But Mishaal does not see HAMAS as a hard core advocate, and introduction of, establishing a new order in the Arab League

An Islamist is "an advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam." (wikipedia) He does not have a vision of HAMAS contributing to a Salafist movement or Caliphate, a return to the 7th Century Islamic ideas and morals of the era of era at the expense inalienable rights (in a Caliphate, the Caliph has absolute authority).

DAESH (ISIS) seeks to establish political domain and the agencies by using religious institutions,
such as sharia courts, to support and justify the political arm.

Salafi-jihadist (militant Sunni Islamism - Salafism, an Islamist revivalist movement within Sunni Islam) based on two criteria.

First, the importance of returning to a “pure” Islam, and activity that is justified by the new color of law.
Second, the spread and adoption jihad is fard ‘ayn (a personal religious duty).
​

While it cannot be denied that Mishaal and HAMAS have advocated the first many time, most recently in the HAMAS Position Paper of 2012, clearly the first criteria is going to be very hard to secure.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

Ha ha ha! Like I said you're always a fulla crap liar. Ottomans ruled close to 700 years you friggin moron.

Ottoman Empire | Facts, History, & Map

Ottoman Empire, empire created by Turkish tribes in Anatolia (Asia Minor) that grew to be one of the most powerful states in the world during the 15th and 16th centuries. The Ottoman period spanned more than 600 years and came to an end only in 1922, when it was replaced by the Turkish Republic and various successor states in southeastern Europe and the Middle East. At its height the empire encompassed most of southeastern Europe to the gates of Vienna, including present-day Hungary, the Balkan region, Greece, and parts of Ukraine; portions of the Middle East now occupied by Iraq, Syria, Israel, and Egypt; North Africa as far west as Algeria; and large parts of the Arabian Peninsula. The term Ottoman is a dynastic appellation derived from Osman I (Arabic: ʿUthmān), the nomadic Turkmen chief who founded both the dynasty and the empire about 1300.

BBC - Religions - Islam: Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)

Ottoman Empire - New World Encyclopedia

Ottoman Empire - New World Encyclopedia
Osmanlı İmparatorluğu
Devlet-i Aliye-i Osmaniye

Map of the Ottoman Empire


The Ottoman Empire at the height of its power
Imperial motto Devlet-i Ebed-müddet'
(Ottoman Turkish for "the Eternal State")
Official language Ottoman Turkish
Capital Constantinople (İstanbul)
Imperial anthem Ottoman imperial anthem
Monarch/Sovereigns Padishah of the Osmanli Dynasty
Population c. 40 million
Area 6.3m km² (1902); maximum extent larger (1595)
Rise of the Ottoman Empire/Establishment 1299
Fall of the Ottoman Empire/Dissolution October 29, 1923
Currency Akce, Kurus, Lira
Flag
The flag of the later Ottoman period

The Ottoman Empire (Ottoman Turkish language: Devlet-i Aliye-i Osmaniye; Turkish language (Modern Turkish): Osmanlı İmparatorluğu) was an imperial power centered on the borders of the Mediterranean Sea that existed from 1281 (or 1299) to 1923. At the height of power, it included Anatolia, the Middle East, parts of North Africa, and much of southeastern Europe. The empire was established by a tribe of Oghuz Turks in western Anatolia and ruled by the Osmanli dynasty, the descendants of those Turks.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

You have two extremist groups that will never be able to come any peaceful settlement.

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

Ha ha ha! Like I said you're always a fulla crap liar. Ottomans ruled the land 600+ years you friggin moron.

BBC - Religions - Islam: Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)

Refocusing:

Will the jew slave Clinton boycott her Church?!
"The divestment petition, or proposed church legislation, states that “Hewlett Packard provides data storage for settlements, manages information technology for the Israeli Navy, and provides biometric monitoring of checkpoints inside the West Bank” and that the church has been asking the company not to support Israeli settlements for years."

United Methodist Church Considers Hewlett Packard Divestment

Thoughts?

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

Firstly, Hamas is supported by a minority of Palestinians, about 34% at most. The Jewish Home party (Habayit Yehudi) and now even Likud have the same aims as Hamas, replacing Judaism for Islam and to make Israel 100% preferably free of non-Jews or guaranteed Jewish rule over non-Jews, with Jews maintaining their current privileges over non-Jews in terms of land, right of return etc. They represent a larger minority, if not a majority among the Jews.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

You got caught making yet another misrepresentation and more deception. As he proved the Palestinians voted for Hamas with 70% plus number, and not the 34% today.

 

[Roudy]

Wow what a bunch of hogwash was that. Palestinians voted for Hamas, a barbaric terrorist organization to rule both the West Bank and Gaza. They currently rule and control all of Gaza. Yet another desperate bullshit nonsensical Monte comparison goes down in flames.

If Israel was some american group sponging off of US taxpayers you'd be soiling yourself with rage. Colonial powers tried to go in and carve up the middle east amongst themselves just like they did in Africa and there's been nothing but trouble ever since. We just keep throwing good money and bodies in after bad. Mostly because of zealots such as yourself. Ya just can't have a sensible conversation with fanatics.

Actually you have your history wrong. The entire region was part of Ottoman Empire for over 700 years of which at no time did the Ottomans recognize a Palestine or Palestinian people. When the Ottomans joined the Germans in World War I, they were defeated and their empire collapsed. 99% of the conquered Ottoman territory in the ME was carved into Muslim states, except for Israel, which was designated to be the Jewish homeland on the religious and ancestral Jewish land.

American public stands staunchly shoulder to shoulder with Israel, and the two nations are inseparable. US Govt. officials and politicians are merely carrying out the will of the people.

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

Ha ha ha! Like I said you're always a fulla crap liar. Ottomans ruled the land 600+ years you friggin moron.

BBC - Religions - Islam: Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)

Refocusing:

Will the jew slave Clinton boycott her Church?!
"The divestment petition, or proposed church legislation, states that “Hewlett Packard provides data storage for settlements, manages information technology for the Israeli Navy, and provides biometric monitoring of checkpoints inside the West Bank” and that the church has been asking the company not to support Israeli settlements for years."

United Methodist Church Considers Hewlett Packard Divestment

Thoughts?

Divestment movement has been an epic fail. It is now banned from most US universities and state govt.'s, and more companies are flocking to Israel than ever before. Divestment movement is a front for Islamists, antisemites, and anti-American scum, and has been identified as such.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

I thought the percentages were a bit different???

View attachment 75946​

There are a lot more Palestinians out there that provide material support to terrorism and the continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict than you might think.

(QUESTION)

∆ HAMAS --- Fatah --- PFLP

• Which one of these three is not like the others?

√ HAMAS is a Designated terrorist organization.
√ PFLP is a Designated terrorist organization.
​

(COMMENT)

Most Palestinians, especially supporters of HAMAS, think that the West (ie the US) intentionally misrepresents the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) as a terrorist organization.

HAMAS, tries to paint the face of an anti-colonial resistance and diplomacy image on the picture they have historically presented. HAMAS wants to be thought of as the same venue as the the Old IRA or ANC. They do not want the images that stretch between the Olympic Massacre in Munich to the Kidnap and Murder of three teens at the characterization conjured when the name HAMAS is spoken.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Outstanding point Monte. And the Nazi's also only had around 34% support. Thanks for hanging yourself again for us to laugh at.

Palestinians = Nazis, got it. I'm sure veryone's convinced now.

They're the product of Nazism merging with Islamism and Arab Nationalism. Correct.

Hitler's Mufti | Catholic Answers

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

Is there a time which this guy doesn't misrepresent, deceive and lie? I don't think I can recall a time.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Lying again I see. Depicting a chart from a decade ago with no link.

Ok, 35% not 34%. LOL

Palestinian Opinion of Hamas Declines

OPINION you moron! Yeah sure after ten years of war and malaise the Palestinians want them out. But they were voted in with greater numbers and that's what his charts showed.

Just one bullshit misrepresentation and lie after another from the shameless Jew hating propagandist. Sick! Ha ha ha.

Just the facts. Hamas is supported by about 34% of the Palestinians, as I stated. I only deal in fact. The chart that Rocco posted has no link no way to know what it is about and when it was taken. It could be from a decade or more ago, even if true.

Outstanding point Monte. And the Nazi's also only had around 34% support. Thanks for hanging yourself again for us to laugh at.

Palestinians = Nazis, got it. I'm sure veryone's convinced now.

They're the product of Nazism merging with Islamism and Arab Nationalism. Correct.

Hitler's Mufti | Catholic Answers

But of course.

 

[Fenton Lum]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

Is there a time which this guy doesn't run from a conversation? I don't think I can recall a time.

 

[RoccoR]

Fenton Lum, et al,

Sometime, we actual do foul-up and through good money after bad.

That's all very lovely. Do we continue to approach these things in the same manner because it has always been approached so, or not? Which goes back to "good money and bodies after bad". Looks to me as if we are, and continue to reap the same outcomes.

(COMMENT)

I remember one time in Baghdad (≈ 2006 or so), I was in an MNFI G-2 Office, suggesting that a new strategy needed to be developed. I stated my case. An Army O-4 (Major - on the O-5 List) told me that my Vietnam experience irreparability harmed me and my ability to evaluate the situation.

I could easily see that (in the National Strategy for Victory in Iraq 2005) that on the track we were following, we would get nowhere. On the first page:

Ω Victory in Iraq is Defined in Stages

• Short term, Iraq is making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.

• Medium term, Iraq is in the lead defeating terrorists and providing its own security, with a fully constitutional government in place, and on its way to achieving its economic potential.

• Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism.
​

A decade later:

The next US victory in Iraq may just mean another crisis
By Judith Miller and Charles Duelfer

While reclaiming Mosul would enable Obama to claim yet another “legacy” achievement, liberation of the city under current conditions is likely to result in more bloodshed, higher casualties, greater destruction and the creation of thousands more refugees in Iraq — a tragic, but utterly predictable coda to the Obama presidency.
​

U.S. announces Iraqi victory over ISIS in strategic western town
May 25 2016 By Christina Harvey Wingate

The top USA commander in Baghdad, Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland, told reporters Friday that it is an important victory for the Iraqi security forces, even though Rutba is a small town. He added, "They believe it will cause the Iraqi government to divert forces, divert effort, divert intellectual horsepower" to Baghdad.
​

NOTE:

Charles Duelfer, is not just another talking head. He is the former special adviser to the CIA for Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction who led the Iraq Survey Group’s hunt for WMDs.

Duelfer's report, delivered yesterday to two congressional committees, represents the government's most definitive accounting of Hussein's weapons programs, the assumed strength of which the Bush administration presented as a central reason for the war. While previous reports have drawn similar conclusions, Duelfer's assessment went beyond them in depth, detail and level of certainty.

"We were almost all wrong" on Iraq, Duelfer told a Senate panel yesterday.
​

​

Yes, we could be all wrong and throwing good money after band, into a worthless black hole. We are not any better today, then we were in 1945.

The problem is, we don't know how to fix it any better today, then we did a decade ago when I told MNFI G2 we were on the wrong track. Of course they were all promoted while I retired. When I mention this to them today, they were all wrong on sound and valid judgments.

You are working on judgment that were sound and valid yesterday, but maybe not so sound and valid today.

(HOW DOES THIS RELATE)

This very same shaky process is being used at the national security decision making level (US and Israeli) on what is happening now. It's a gamble. Each side is betting the other side will fold first.

There is no reasonable expectation that the Arab Palestinian wants peace. So, even if the Israelis make some concessions, the Arab Palestinian will pause for a year and then, rekindle the asymmetric offensive since it worked for them before. THUS, the Israelis will wait to see if the Arab Palestinians make the first move.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

In fact, the Muslims and Christians of Palestine both welcomed the Ottomans, as they replaced the Mameluks as rulers. Thanks for confirmation. You forgot the period of Egyptian rule when the Ottomans were expelled for a decade or so. Maybe Ruddy will now accept the historical record, since you posted it. LOL

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

In fact, the Muslims and Christians of Palestine both welcomed the Ottomans, as they replaced the Mameluks as rulers. Thanks for confirmation. You forgot the period of Egyptian rule when the Ottomans were expelled for a decade or so. Maybe Ruddy will now accept the historical record, since you posted it. LOL

It doesn't contradict what I said, the land was ruled by a Ottomans who then lost it to the British in the 1920's. And at no time did the Ottomans consider a Palestine or Palestinian people.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that is a bit confusing.

First, let me apologize. I have a tendency to throw the Crusader Periods into the successes of the Muslim. I should not have done that. In 1300, the combined Turkish Kurds/Arab Muslim had control over much of the Palestinian territory

Having said that, there is a big difference from being a regional name (Rocky Mountains Region, Appellation Region, Palestine).

No, as usual you are full of crap. The Mameluks ruled Palestine until 1486. The Ottomans lost control of Palestine in 1799 when it was invaded by Napoleon and it remained under local and/or Egyptian rule until Muhammed Ali was defeated by the allied British and Ottomans and signed the Treaty of 1841. Where do you get 700 plus years you idiot.

The Ottomans certainly recognized Filistin (Palestine) it's on Ottoman era maps. There is nothing ancestral to Europeans about Palestine. Europeans are Europeans. It is the ancestral land of the native inhabitants, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

Little by little more of us are becoming even handed in evaluating the conflict. Within a decade most Americans will be supporting the non-Jews in Palestine/Israel as we came around to supporting the non-whites in South Africa.

(COMMENT)

Actually, the Muslims had been fighting over that scape of land for almost a 1000 years. Napoleonic forces did make an incursion into that region but lost the battle for

"Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslimempires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land."
Encyclopedia of the Middle East Ottoman Empire
​

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.
969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.
970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.
1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.
1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.
1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.
1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.
1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.
1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.
1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.
1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.
1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.
1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.
1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.
1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.
1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.
1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.
1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.
​

As you can see, Napoleonic Forces did make a deep incursion north and into Southern Syria, by way of the Mediterranean coast roads. shift progress had been made until the defeat at Acre. With Ottoman Forces now bearing down from the North and East he no longer had sufficient strength for an expedition of any importance outside of Egypt. About 9 months later the French Forces surrendered at Fort Julien on 21 March 1800 to the Anglo-Ottomans, refitting to then commenced their land offensive.

--- History of Palestine ---

BOTTOM LINE: Yes, a detailed examination of the record, you will find that portions of the Empire Changed hands several time with the last 400 years staring in about
July 1516 –When the Sultan Selim I declares war on the Mameluks and invades Syria.

The Crusader Rule in Palestine (1099-1187 CE) was a Christian kingdom. The rule was modeled on the contemporary peer kingdoms in Europe. The initial years saw the crusader rule no more than a aggregation of towns and cities captured from the Muslims by different crusaders. Godfrey of Bouillon first consolidated the combined power of the crusaders. A feudal administration was imposed upon the area. The economy was based on trade and an urban culture was established. The rule of the crusaders extended over the modern states of Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Syria. The Gaza Strip was under Crusader control. The Christian kingdom was ultimately destroyed by the Mamluks.

Ottomans in Palestine
Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans in AD 1516. The Ottomans in Palestine was known for their relatively liberal rule over the West Asian region.

The Ottomans in Palestine quickly established a well entrenched system of political power control. The Palestinian region was brought under the Ottoman Empire fold. Local government functionaries were appointed from the Ottoman capital city of Constantinople. The Turkish government rebuilt the war scarred region. The walls of Jerusalem was repaired by the Ottoman emperor Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. The Ottomans demarcated Palestine into two administrative divisions for ease of rule. The two areas were the independent Sanjak district and Willayat province. The Ottoman Empire ceased control over Palestine after the First World War. The British took over the reigns.

Most Respectfully,
R​

In fact, the Muslims and Christians of Palestine both welcomed the Ottomans, as they replaced the Mameluks as rulers. Thanks for confirmation. You forgot the period of Egyptian rule when the Ottomans were expelled for a decade or so. Maybe Ruddy will now accept the historical record, since you posted it. LOL

It doesn't contradict what I said, the land was ruled by a Ottomans who then lost it to the British in the 1920's. And at no time did the Ottomans consider a Palestine or Palestinian people.

You said it was ruled by the Ottomans for over 700 years. That was a load of bullshit as Rocco's posting confirmed. You are so frigging dumb.