idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
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So we should have separate DUI laws for transgender people...is that what you're implying?
I'm sure the DUI laws apply to everyone...just like the sexual molestation laws.
Men in women's bathrooms
- Thread starter SmokeALib
- Start date
I'm sure the DUI laws apply to everyone...just like the sexual molestation laws.
Tilly
Platinum Member
Renae, I asked you (politely), if resources were not a problem and they were built, would you use a third rest room for the 'other gendered' and leave the men and women's restrooms to them? I'd appreciate a (polite) reply if that's possible.
idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
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These things are already illegal I'm sure.
Should they be more illegal for transgender people?
Boss
Take a Memo:
No, you need to educate yourself. Your gender and sex are the same, you are a male if you have a penis. I've already said, I have absolutely no problem with you using the women's restrooms if you no longer have your penis.
Again, this is not about YOU. This is about sexual perverts and our legal recourse against them. If such laws as this are passed, we have no way of keeping sexual perverts out of the little girl's rooms. They have a legal right to be there, all they have to do is claim they're transgender.
And whenever something bad happens (and it will) there is no legal recourse because it becomes the predator's word against the victim and there is no reason why the predator shouldn't have been in the restroom. We cannot have a police guard or psychologist outside of every public restroom to determine if you are really a transgender or a sexual predator posing as one.
Try to get this through your head... this isn't a discrimination against you. It's actually a protection FOR you. Because I guarantee you, when this becomes law of the land, you are going to see a dramatic increase in violence against transgenders. I'm about the most tolerant and open-minded right winger you'll find on sexual lifestyle choices and if I am this worked up over this, you can bet there are some bubbas out there with machetes who will see to it you get your sex change operation, should you venture into the restroom with their little girl.
Boss
Take a Memo:
idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
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What about sexual perverts that are currently allowed to go into mens' restrooms where there are little boys?
Should that be illegal too?
Boss
Take a Memo:
Boss
Take a Memo:
idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
- 14,986
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Your point is pointless.
DUI laws apply to everyone as do molestation laws.
Boss
Take a Memo:
Tilly
Platinum Member
An interesting article by a psychiatrist, formerly Psychiatrist in Chief at John Hopkins:
Surgery Isn't the Solution
A drastic physical change doesn't address underlying psycho-social troubles.
June 12, 2014 7:19 p.m. ET
518 COMMENTS
The government and media alliance advancing the transgender cause has gone into overdrive in recent weeks. On May 30, a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services review board ruled that Medicare can pay for the "reassignment" surgery sought by the transgendered—those who say that they don't identify with their biological sex. Earlier last month Defense Secretary Chuck Hagelsaid that he was "open" to lifting a ban on transgender individuals serving in the military. Time magazine, seeing the trend, ran a cover story for its June 9 issue called "The Transgender Tipping Point: America's next civil rights frontier."
Yet policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention. This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.
The transgendered suffer a disorder of "assumption" like those in other disorders familiar to psychiatrists. With the transgendered, the disordered assumption is that the individual differs from what seems given in nature—namely one's maleness or femaleness. Other kinds of disordered assumptions are held by those who suffer from anorexia and bulimia nervosa, where the assumption that departs from physical reality is the belief by the dangerously thin that they are overweight.
ENLARGE
A man who looks into the mirror and sees himself as a woman GETTY IMAGES
With body dysmorphic disorder, an often socially crippling condition, the individual is consumed by the assumption "I'm ugly." These disorders occur in subjects who have come to believe that some of their psycho-social conflicts or problems will be resolved if they can change the way that they appear to others. Such ideas work like ruling passions in their subjects' minds and tend to be accompanied by a solipsistic argument.
For the transgendered, this argument holds that one's feeling of "gender" is a conscious, subjective sense that, being in one's mind, cannot be questioned by others. The individual often seeks not just society's tolerance of this "personal truth" but affirmation of it. Here rests the support for "transgender equality," the demands for government payment for medical and surgical treatments, and for access to all sex-based public roles and privileges.
With this argument, advocates for the transgendered have persuaded several states—including California, New Jersey and Massachusetts—to pass laws barring psychiatrists, even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor. That government can intrude into parents' rights to seek help in guiding their children indicates how powerful these advocates have become.
How to respond? Psychiatrists obviously must challenge the solipsistic concept that what is in the mind cannot be questioned. Disorders of consciousness, after all, represent psychiatry's domain; declaring them off-limits would eliminate the field. Many will recall how, in the 1990s, an accusation of parental sex abuse of children was deemed unquestionable by the solipsists of the "recovered memory" craze.
You won't hear it from those championing transgender equality, but controlled and follow-up studies reveal fundamental problems with this movement. When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.
We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.
It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.
There are subgroups of the transgendered, and for none does "reassignment" seem apt. One group includes male prisoners like Pvt. Bradley Manning, the convicted national-security leaker who now wishes to be called Chelsea. Facing long sentences and the rigors of a men's prison, they have an obvious motive for wanting to change their sex and hence their prison. Given that they committed their crimes as males, they should be punished as such; after serving their time, they will be free to reconsider their gender.
Another subgroup consists of young men and women susceptible to suggestion from "everything is normal" sex education, amplified by Internet chat groups. These are the transgender subjects most like anorexia nervosa patients: They become persuaded that seeking a drastic physical change will banish their psycho-social problems. "Diversity" counselors in their schools, rather like cult leaders, may encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery. Treatments here must begin with removing the young person from the suggestive environment and offering a counter-message in family therapy.
Then there is the subgroup of very young, often prepubescent children who notice distinct sex roles in the culture and, exploring how they fit in, begin imitating the opposite sex. Misguided doctors at medical centers including Boston's Children's Hospital have begun trying to treat this behavior by administering puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous—even though the drugs stunt the children's growth and risk causing sterility. Given that close to 80% of such children would abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated, these medical interventions come close to child abuse. A better way to help these children: with devoted parenting.
At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. "Sex change" is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.
Dr. McHugh, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital, is the author of "Try to Remember: Psychiatry's Clash Over Meaning, Memory, and Mind" (Dana Press, 2008
Surgery Isn't the Solution
A drastic physical change doesn't address underlying psycho-social troubles.
June 12, 2014 7:19 p.m. ET
518 COMMENTS
The government and media alliance advancing the transgender cause has gone into overdrive in recent weeks. On May 30, a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services review board ruled that Medicare can pay for the "reassignment" surgery sought by the transgendered—those who say that they don't identify with their biological sex. Earlier last month Defense Secretary Chuck Hagelsaid that he was "open" to lifting a ban on transgender individuals serving in the military. Time magazine, seeing the trend, ran a cover story for its June 9 issue called "The Transgender Tipping Point: America's next civil rights frontier."
Yet policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention. This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.
The transgendered suffer a disorder of "assumption" like those in other disorders familiar to psychiatrists. With the transgendered, the disordered assumption is that the individual differs from what seems given in nature—namely one's maleness or femaleness. Other kinds of disordered assumptions are held by those who suffer from anorexia and bulimia nervosa, where the assumption that departs from physical reality is the belief by the dangerously thin that they are overweight.
A man who looks into the mirror and sees himself as a woman GETTY IMAGES
With body dysmorphic disorder, an often socially crippling condition, the individual is consumed by the assumption "I'm ugly." These disorders occur in subjects who have come to believe that some of their psycho-social conflicts or problems will be resolved if they can change the way that they appear to others. Such ideas work like ruling passions in their subjects' minds and tend to be accompanied by a solipsistic argument.
For the transgendered, this argument holds that one's feeling of "gender" is a conscious, subjective sense that, being in one's mind, cannot be questioned by others. The individual often seeks not just society's tolerance of this "personal truth" but affirmation of it. Here rests the support for "transgender equality," the demands for government payment for medical and surgical treatments, and for access to all sex-based public roles and privileges.
With this argument, advocates for the transgendered have persuaded several states—including California, New Jersey and Massachusetts—to pass laws barring psychiatrists, even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor. That government can intrude into parents' rights to seek help in guiding their children indicates how powerful these advocates have become.
How to respond? Psychiatrists obviously must challenge the solipsistic concept that what is in the mind cannot be questioned. Disorders of consciousness, after all, represent psychiatry's domain; declaring them off-limits would eliminate the field. Many will recall how, in the 1990s, an accusation of parental sex abuse of children was deemed unquestionable by the solipsists of the "recovered memory" craze.
You won't hear it from those championing transgender equality, but controlled and follow-up studies reveal fundamental problems with this movement. When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.
We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.
It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.
There are subgroups of the transgendered, and for none does "reassignment" seem apt. One group includes male prisoners like Pvt. Bradley Manning, the convicted national-security leaker who now wishes to be called Chelsea. Facing long sentences and the rigors of a men's prison, they have an obvious motive for wanting to change their sex and hence their prison. Given that they committed their crimes as males, they should be punished as such; after serving their time, they will be free to reconsider their gender.
Another subgroup consists of young men and women susceptible to suggestion from "everything is normal" sex education, amplified by Internet chat groups. These are the transgender subjects most like anorexia nervosa patients: They become persuaded that seeking a drastic physical change will banish their psycho-social problems. "Diversity" counselors in their schools, rather like cult leaders, may encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery. Treatments here must begin with removing the young person from the suggestive environment and offering a counter-message in family therapy.
Then there is the subgroup of very young, often prepubescent children who notice distinct sex roles in the culture and, exploring how they fit in, begin imitating the opposite sex. Misguided doctors at medical centers including Boston's Children's Hospital have begun trying to treat this behavior by administering puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous—even though the drugs stunt the children's growth and risk causing sterility. Given that close to 80% of such children would abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated, these medical interventions come close to child abuse. A better way to help these children: with devoted parenting.
At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. "Sex change" is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.
Dr. McHugh, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital, is the author of "Try to Remember: Psychiatry's Clash Over Meaning, Memory, and Mind" (Dana Press, 2008
Boss
Take a Memo:
Which "new law" are you talking about? Why do you think a man with a penis needs to be using a women's restroom? See... all you knuckleheads do is hurl feces at the wall to see what sticks.
Here's what I think... Why don't you go ask Hillary Clinton about this? Let's get her corrupt fat ass on record right here and now! Let's make the 2016 election about penises in women's restrooms!
Here's the chance of a lifetime for your "courageous" democrat candidate to stand up for what they believe in and support the LBGTQRXYZ agenda!
idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
- 14,986
- 2,590
- 265
The laws requiring that a person use the restroom according to their birth certificate.
Renae
Senior Member
bnv
You are entitled to be wrong.
Boss
Take a Memo:
Still don't know what law you're talking about or what the text of the law says. I'm not sure how such a law would be enforced. Do they assign monitors to check birth certificates at the restrooms now?
Here's a better solution... How about capitalist enterprises simply stop providing public restroom facilities? Or IF there is a restroom, it is one-person unisex type? No more restrooms where multiple people can be in them at the same time. That solves all the problems... right?
Renae
Senior Member
You really going to hang your hat on that idiots comments?
"
Dr. McHugh has a lot in common with these right-wing, religiously -motivated hate groups. He is a self-described orthodox Catholic whose radical views are well documented. In his role as part of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' review board, he pushed the idea that the Catholic sex-abuse scandal was not about pedophilia but about "homosexual predation on American Catholic youth." He filed an amicus brief arguing in favor of Proposition 8 on the basis that homosexuality is a "choice." Additionally, McHugh was in favor of forcing a pregnant 10-year-old girl to carry to term even though she had been raped by an adult relative.
His words and actions toward the transgender community are the most radical and egregious, however. He has compared medical care for transgender people to “the practice of frontal lobotomy.” McHugh’s disdain for his own patients is evident, calling them “caricatures of women” and pushing the demeaning narrative that all transgender women are either self-hating gay men or perverted heterosexuals. Worse, the damage McHugh has done to transgender health care is incalculable. McHugh shut down one of the few gender clinics in the U.S. in 1979, and his lobbying in 1981 was instrumental in getting a national coverage decision forbidding the government from covering gender-affirming care. It wasn’t reversed until 2014. As a result of his outspoken desire to see transgender people shoved back into the closet, Dr. McHugh has become the go-to “expert” for right-wing organizations."
The Scary Science at Johns Hopkins University | Advocate.com
Paul McHugh
http://www.transadvocate.com/clingi...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm
Renae
Senior Member
I do apologize if I missed it, lots of replies!
Would I use an "other gendered" No. We as society are well passed the "White Fountains, Colored" fountains level ostracizing and I refuse to be a party to that sort of thing. Sorry.
Now, WHAT I AM in favor of, is, you know how if you have a service dog you have to carry proof? I would have no problem at all carrying a card proving I'm TG. If someone has an issue with me in the restroom, a Big If, but if they did, I could produce this card to them, to the police to whomever. Showing I am:
Under a therapist's care
Undergoing HRT
Am not a threat, I'm really a transwoman.
I can ditch the card after GRS.
This let's people like myself have a little peace of mind, if a problem arises we have an ace in the hole to avoid unpleasantness.
You get peace of mind knowing that everyone in that restroom, is just there to do their business.
It helps deter the bad actors in society, like a CHL for gun owners. You need to do the class to carry... I need the proper care to use the ladies room.
It's a trust and verify situation for all parties.
Renae
Senior Member
And yet you ignore the inappropriateness of that comment. As a pre-operative woman I am not going to be bullied by ignorant bigots into embarrassing and debasing myself. You need to learn and educate yourself on the matter. If I look, walk, sound, smell like a woman, I'll be damned if you are going to force me in the men's room because of your stupidity.
You sound like the fools freaking out about Conceal Carry gun laws. "Oh if we let people carry guns, why it'll be the wild west out there!!! People shooting people over the small insults!!!" Didn't happen.
It IS discrimination against me, YOU need to educate yourself YOU need a clue., you already threatened violence against people like me, you are a danger to society YOU are what's wrong in this country. You are a violent, stupid man whose arrogance and idiocy lead to violence against innocent people. Guess what buster, you will not intimidate me with your BIGOTRY.
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