Men in women's bathrooms

[Fair&Balanced]

Like I said, you can call me a bigot until the cows come home. I'll wear it as a badge of sanity. Just because you don't like the fact that men can never be women and women can never be men, will never affect my saying they are halflings or mutilees. That is ,in fact, what they are.

A woman with breast cancer who had her breast removed to save her life from cancer is nothing like a man who had his HEALTHY, FUNCTIONAL genitals removed to play pretend. If a woman could simply get therapy to cure her breast cancer, no doctor would amputate that breast.

According to your logic, aren't these women, technically mutilees and halflings?? Come on man, if you're gonna speak the truth then speak the truth. The motivation behind the surgery doesn't effect what it is, right?

A person with breast cancer has surgery because something is the matter with them. They have a DISEASE. Why do you keep using people who have physical well known diseases and comparing them to transgenders who have NO physical anomalies until AFTER they get this Frankenstein surgery?

It's interesting that he brings up breast cancer.

If a woman believed she had cancer even though SCIENCE said she didn't , and she wanted her boobs cut off, she'd be referred to psychologist before such surgery would be performed.

 

[Slade3200]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is ******* stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.

Valid points and I agree... except I don't think 99.5% feel uncomfortable with transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. Some also feel that it is a civil rights issue. Also, my example was related to actions people do to make me feel uncomfortable... The Transgender situation has nothing to do with their actions, it has to do with their presence... It is a different argument.

I like your Unisex argument for public facilities and think the Gov should butt out of private business bathrooms. The last think we need are mandates to install unisex bathrooms in our businesses.

 

[Silhouette]

I don't think 99.5% feel uncomfortable with transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. Some also feel that it is a civil rights issue. Also, my example was related to actions people do to make me feel uncomfortable... The Transgender situation has nothing to do with their actions, it has to do with their presence... It is a different argument.

Yes, the argument is "should men be allowed to shower and use restrooms with women". That's it. That's what will be boiled out at the bottom of the pan when the lawyers are done arguing it.

Some DO feel it's a civil rights issue....for the 17 million rape survivors who will be forced as a matter of new law to stand naked next to a man in a shower.

Good luck with your wishful thinking! You think 99.5% of people are comfortable with men in the shower with women? So when your legal argument completely fails, you just bald face lie.

 

[Slade3200]

We don't care if you call us bigots. The phrase is tired, old and overused in so many wrong situations that it's "punch" has ceased to have any effect.

The problem you face is that men won't be allowed in the women's showers or restrooms. It's a fact. No matter what the man is thinking in his head or how delusional he is. The fact that he is experiencing delusions so severe that he fancies himself a woman despite what his eyes are telling him when he looks between his legs means that society should double-down on not letting especially these men in alone with women showering.

You have one GIANT hurdle you're facing: WOMEN behind doors marked WOMEN. They have rights too you know. You didn't? Well then you learn something new every day, don't you? Just ask Justice Ginsburg. She's going to side with women on this one. Likely Kennedy will too and possibly even Sotomayor. Breyer usually sucks up to whatever Kennedy tells him to do (what else could explain his vote to disenfranchise kids from either a mother or father for life ~Obergefell). So you're looking down the maw of possibly every Justice except the lesbian Kagan, because she is drunk with rainbow Koolaid, voting to protect women instead of delusional men.

Justice Ginsburg = WOMEN (already said she believes bathrooms should be segregated on record)

Justices Alito, Roberts & Thomas = WOMEN

Justice Kennedy = WOMEN (likely, because of the remorse he's undoubtedly feeling assigning unknown numbers of children to lives legally-deprived of either a mother or father)

Justice Breyer = WOMEN (whatever Kennedy does, see above)

Justice Sotomayer = UNKNOWN (she is catholic, a woman, but has also drunk the Rainbow Koolaid..could go either way)

Justice Kagan = MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. (Koolaid)

************

BELOW ..Slade vv you're going to lose this one. Start the grieving process now so you have a jump on it.
You can ask Skylar and mdk if I know what the hub of the debate is about. I've been asking them to clearly define what a "transgender woman" is. And of the dozen or so requests, they have yet to answer. Instead they insert ad hominems and strawmen, hoping the question will go away.

So I'll ask you: what EXACTLY is a "transgender woman"? To establish your premise, it's incumbent upon you to convince people that a man pretending to be a women "is actually a woman".

Go.

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

You keep siting this HcHugh report that Skylar did a pretty good job of discrediting. Perhaps its time to find another credible source if you want consideration. But I don't think its necessary...

Like with homosexuals and like with all people, we are all different. Homosexuality can be a result of environmental influences and it is also a natural instinct for many. The causes for Transgender tendencies isn't a constant either, some with the proper treatment can be reprogrammed to the social norms, some kids can grow out of it... we should work on therapies and treatments that provide these individuals with the right kind of support. This does not include telling them they are sick and mentally ill in need of fixing.

People don't walk into a doctors office and say I feel like a woman today can you chop this thing off... It is a very intensive and expensive process that they go through. All areas of this process should be further explored and developed.

Again I come to the question... Why do you care so much to discredit what Transexuals claim to be their truth? Why do you care so much to label them as mentally ill? How does their transitioning effect your life? This seems to be more than just a bathroom issue for you.

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

yeah, totally... I think Dr McHughs has another article out... Spend your time just exploring things that support your argument and spend no time looking at the other side with an open mind. Brilliant approach.

Oh, because you are here to "teach" me, because I don't know anything? Lol. Sorry, I can't think of anything you or anyone else would say that would make me accept that being a transgender is "normal." Take that to the BANK.

If the child on your video is having "gender identity problems" then a psychiatrist is the appropriate route to take.

If it was your child, what would you do? Give him or her dangerous hormones and prepare him or her for surgery?

Also, what on earth does a CHILD know? Quite normal for them to be confused especially when there is a history of abuse and/or mental illness. Not to mention, studies say that 70 to 80% of them "grow out of it" by adulthood.

Why don't you just admit that you people are monsters who are trying to create "monsters" who really don't fit into any "gender" category? You are an advocate for that.

The fact that you are still judging the child in a video that you HAVEN'T EVEN WATCHED, baffles me. Do you realize how dumb that makes you sound. The family did years of counseling and drug treatment. I've clicked and read your links before responding. I give credit when credit is do... I send you some information and you ignore it then critique it, then continue with your uneducated rants... then you criticize me for sending it to you thinking I'm trying to TEACH you? You're looney...

Take a ******* minute and see what this family went through and feel free to critique. The video backs up some of your points and showcases the risks with child transitions.

 

[Silhouette]

The child is delusional. The parents are enablers. Anyone indulging this child further in his delusions should be fined or put in jail. Child abuse is a serious issue.

 

[Slade3200]

It's pretty simple man... Who am I to call somebody delusional and tell them they can't do something to their own bodies?? Who are you to do that??

I've got a better question....who is an MD who prescribes class #1 carcinogenic hormones or amputating healthy organs in order to "cure" a mental illness outside the FDA's recommended use of such practices, and in full arrogant defiance of the hippocratic oath?

Answer: A felon.

If you were correct then they'd be in jail and the practice would be outlawed... There is obviously more to the puzzle than what you present.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is ******* stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.

Valid points and I agree... except I don't think 99.5% feel uncomfortable with transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. Some also feel that it is a civil rights issue. Also, my example was related to actions people do to make me feel uncomfortable... The Transgender situation has nothing to do with their actions, it has to do with their presence... It is a different argument.

I like your Unisex argument for public facilities and think the Gov should butt out of private business bathrooms. The last think we need are mandates to install unisex bathrooms in our businesses.

We , of course , have no idea what the actual numbers are, but we can be pretty sure that there are far more people who are uncomfortable with the idea of being in the bathroom with the opposite sex (or more importantly to most having an adult of the opposite sex in the bathroom with their CHILD) than there are people who identify as "trans sexual" meaning the minority by far is still trying to tell the majority here " you have to be uncomfortable here to make me comfortable"

That's really what this boils down to a small group of people have convinced the Dem party to defend their right to make a larger group of people uncomfortable to suit their needs. And where does that end? EVERY single time something like this happens a few conservatives will say "no, if we allow this, we know what's next" and of course they are called bigots and racists, but in the end they are proven right.

Where do we draw the line? IS there any minority group of people who have a stance that the Dems won't say "yeah you know what, they have rights?"

Take someone like myself, I seriously defended gay marriage, I don't care who marries who, and I firmly believe that it's none of the government's business, but I see the same people who were screaming that anyone who disagreed with gay marriage was a racist bigot now screaming that anyone who doesn't agree that a person should be able to use whatever bathroom they want is a racist bigot, and frankly I can't help but feel that in 6 months I'm going to be called a racist bigot when pedophiles want the right to have sex with children and I point out that they should be shot instead.

Where does it end?

 

[Slade3200]

Like I said, you can call me a bigot until the cows come home. I'll wear it as a badge of sanity. Just because you don't like the fact that men can never be women and women can never be men, will never affect my saying they are halflings or mutilees. That is ,in fact, what they are.

A woman with breast cancer who had her breast removed to save her life from cancer is nothing like a man who had his HEALTHY, FUNCTIONAL genitals removed to play pretend. If a woman could simply get therapy to cure her breast cancer, no doctor would amputate that breast.

According to your logic, aren't these women, technically mutilees and halflings?? Come on man, if you're gonna speak the truth then speak the truth. The motivation behind the surgery doesn't effect what it is, right?

A person with breast cancer has surgery because something is the matter with them. They have a DISEASE. Why do you keep using people who have physical well known diseases and comparing them to transgenders who have NO physical anomalies until AFTER they get this Frankenstein surgery?

I didn't compare the two... I was talking about Sill's references to Mutilee's and Halflings as he claimed they were appropriate and accurate terms.

 

[Slade3200]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is ******* stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.

He doesn't care about the comfort and safety of women and children. They are secondary to the trannies for him apparently.

Pssst , he doesn't care about the trannies either. This is strictly about politics for people like this.

You can always tell people who don't think for themselves, both on the left and the right, when they've never seen a position from "their side" that they wouldn't defend.

Allowing little boys to say they think they're little girls and using the girls washrooms is madness. ANY sane person would agree with that.

Now you're painting me as a lefty partisan... really?

 

[Tilly]

That is a great question and the heart of the debate. I would seek input from the transgender community as to what they propose as this discussion revolves around their lifestyle. They should consider the fears and anxieties that surround men, women, and children and make a common sense proposal with everybody's concerns in mind. Im just an advocate for tolerance and equality. This debate doesn't have a direct effect on me so ultimately it should be decided between the transgender community and those that feel like their rights or privacy is being infringed.

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas, but I think its start to providing a structured system that addresses both parties concerns and solves the issue of a man saying "I feel like a woman today so I'll use the woman's restroom"

Additionally schools would undergo a more extensive process, where the child would undergo a series of steps to qualify as a transitioned

McHugh was not discredited in any way. Lol. Your "theories" are not any valid than Dr. McHugh's or my own. Yes, when someone is sick, they need to know they are sick so that they can seek out the proper treatment. Feeding a delusion is the WORST thing you can do.

Why do you think our suicide rates are SO much more prevalent now than ever in the past? Because your "treatments" are working. Hmm. Interesting because the statistics would say NO.

I am posting on this topic because basically, I think you are a bunch of monsters. These people need therapy, not people encouraging them to surgically deform themselves.

I don't know where you get this "encouragement" term. I think therapy first to help identify issues and work on coping mechanisms so they can feel good about who they are. Im not a doctor or a therapist, but ive heard many stories, in some cases therapy resolves issues and others not. Did you watch that video I posted twice yesterday?

Nope. I don't have time to sit and watch a video! I have important postings to make and texting to do!

yeah, totally... I think Dr McHughs has another article out... Spend your time just exploring things that support your argument and spend no time looking at the other side with an open mind. Brilliant approach.

Oh, because you are here to "teach" me, because I don't know anything? Lol. Sorry, I can't think of anything you or anyone else would say that would make me accept that being a transgender is "normal." Take that to the BANK.

If the child on your video is having "gender identity problems" then a psychiatrist is the appropriate route to take.

If it was your child, what would you do? Give him or her dangerous hormones and prepare him or her for surgery?

Also, what on earth does a CHILD know? Quite normal for them to be confused especially when there is a history of abuse and/or mental illness. Not to mention, studies say that 70 to 80% of them "grow out of it" by adulthood.

Why don't you just admit that you people are monsters who are trying to create "monsters" who really don't fit into any "gender" category? You are an advocate for that.

The fact that you are still judging the child in a video that you HAVEN'T EVEN WATCHED, baffles me. Do you realize how dumb that makes you sound. The family did years of counseling and drug treatment. I've clicked and read your links before responding. I give credit when credit is do... I send you some information and you ignore it then critique it, then continue with your uneducated rants... then you criticize me for sending it to you thinking I'm trying to TEACH you? You're looney...

Take a ******* minute and see what this family went through and feel free to critique. The video backs up some of your points and showcases the risks with child transitions.

Child abuse.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is ******* stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.

He doesn't care about the comfort and safety of women and children. They are secondary to the trannies for him apparently.

Pssst , he doesn't care about the trannies either. This is strictly about politics for people like this.

You can always tell people who don't think for themselves, both on the left and the right, when they've never seen a position from "their side" that they wouldn't defend.

Allowing little boys to say they think they're little girls and using the girls washrooms is madness. ANY sane person would agree with that.

Now you're painting me as a lefty partisan... really?

Your first few posts before I posted that sure came across like that, I'll admit that your responses to me since came across much more reasonable.

 

[Slade3200]

I don't think 99.5% feel uncomfortable with transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. Some also feel that it is a civil rights issue. Also, my example was related to actions people do to make me feel uncomfortable... The Transgender situation has nothing to do with their actions, it has to do with their presence... It is a different argument.

Yes, the argument is "should men be allowed to shower and use restrooms with women". That's it. That's what will be boiled out at the bottom of the pan when the lawyers are done arguing it.

Some DO feel it's a civil rights issue....for the 17 million rape survivors who will be forced as a matter of new law to stand naked next to a man in a shower.

Good luck with your wishful thinking! You think 99.5% of people are comfortable with men in the shower with women? So when your legal argument completely fails, you just bald face lie.

You can stop using that 17 million rape victim number as there are numerous rape victim and abused women groups that support the transgender movement and are condemning the politicalization of it. I posted a link earlier that I believe you responded with a strawman retort... Yes there are also groups that oppose the transgender movement as well. But lets be honest it isn't 17million.

 

[Rozman]

I wonder after the first dude assaults a women in a ladies room will the Libs here who love this
shit feel differently.....

Outraged Shopper: TX Dept Store Let Man Use Women's Dressing Room

 

[Silhouette]

I didn't compare the two... I was talking about Sill's references to Mutilee's and Halflings as he claimed they were appropriate and accurate terms.

They are accurate and completely fair terms. "Mutilees" and "Halflings" are as close as one sex can get to the other in the natural world with the help of "MDs" who belong in prison.

You can stop using that 17 million rape victim number as there are numerous rape victim and abused women groups that support the transgender movement and are condemning the politicalization of it. I posted a link earlier that I believe you responded with a strawman retort... Yes there are also groups that oppose the transgender movement as well. But lets be honest it isn't 17million.

Did you get that folks? Supreme mutilee/halfling advocate "Slade" believes that the rights and considerations of 17 million rape survivors having to shower next to naked men behind doors marked "women" is a "strawman"...a non-issue in this debate. He's asserting here that "many of these rape survivors are OK showering naked next to a strange man". Do you believe him? And, what else will he lie about to shove his agenda through?

Ergo, Slade is a misogynist and a pervert.

 

[Slade3200]

The child is delusional. The parents are enablers. Anyone indulging this child further in his delusions should be fined or put in jail. Child abuse is a serious issue.

did you watch it or are you responding to the concept of it?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I wonder after the first dude assaults a women in a ladies room will the Libs here who love this
shit feel differently.....

Outraged Shopper: TX Dept Store Let Man Use Women's Dressing Room

Quite frankly, adults can just deal with that. but regardless of store policies (because I believe businesses should set their own policies) if one of my daughters or nieces is in the bathroom, I'll be guarding the door and no man will be "representing himself as a woman" in that bathroom while they are in there.

That's just that damn simple. Take care of your own people.

 

[boilermaker55]

To funny!

I wonder after the first dude assaults a women in a ladies room will the Libs here who love this
shit feel differently.....

Outraged Shopper: TX Dept Store Let Man Use Women's Dressing Room

Quite frankly, adults can just deal with that. but regardless of store policies (because I believe businesses should set their own policies) if one of my daughters or nieces is in the bathroom, I'll be guarding the door and no man will be "representing himself as a woman" in that bathroom while they are in there.

That's just that damn simple. Take care of your own people.

 

[Rozman]

Dems love to regulate things....
How are they going to regulate this????

Some hairy dude walks in to a ladies rest room and who is there to check under the hood to see if
he is a she?.....
Or does he just have to say that he's in touch with his feminine side that day
as he moves to the stall to take a nasty dump....

 

[Silhouette]

Dems love to regulate things....
How are they going to regulate this????

Some hairy dude walks in to a ladies rest room and who is there to check under the hood to see if
he is a she?.....
Or does he just have to say that he's in touch with his feminine side that day
as he moves to the stall to take a nasty dump....

Don't forget either... this isn't JUST about bathrooms. It's about showers, dorms, locker rooms...the whole gamut.

 

[Slade3200]

From my limited experience and exposure to the issue, i'd suggest that for somebody to be considered a transgender man or women they would have had to gone through some form or therapy or counseling that addresses the underlying issues and through that process it was decided that transition is the best option for their mental health. They should be living the transitioned lifestyle, which means they take on the opposite sexes appearance, both in physical appearance and in dress. If there is controversy surrounding somebodies use of a facility and police get involved, there can be verification from the persons doctor that the above steps have been taken to give credibility to the "gender identity".

These are off the top of my head ideas...

OK, for purposes of legal clarity...

"transgender" is still a muddy term. We could call them "multilees" or "halflings" or ? which would describe more completely, openly and accurately what they really are after MDs agree to drug and or cut them up.

"transition". You mean from a man to a mutilated man? How long does "transition" take? How long and at what stages would women rape survivors be required to shower with them? Before or after the criminal MDs amputate their male genitals to "cure a mental illness"?

If you don't want to be called a bigot then you can chose your words more wisely... multilees and halflings, cut them up are derogatory and unnecessary terms... Unless you intend to offend your opposition during debate, there is no point in talking like that... Would you say the same to a breast cancer victim who had a mastectomy?

Per your questions: My idea would be to break the "transition" into phases: 1. meet with doctor or therapist to discuss issues 2. If decided by doctor that transition is best move for mental health then they go through a period by living the lifestyle of opposite sex. 3. Drug therapy 4. Surgical procedure. Hopefully 3 and 4 can be avoided by effective methods in 1 and 2.

As for the shower rule... I really don't think transgenders desire to shower or get naked in public, especially if they have different anatomy. But that may be a consideration that is discussed. No showering or exposure if you have opposite anatomy as the labeled facility... Again the debate needs to be had between the Trans group and the ones that feel their presence violates their privacy. I don't know everything that Trans people are looking for and I don't know all the fears that women may have. Me personally I don't really care and think most of these things work themselves out without the need for laws to define it all. If I see a creeper in the bathroom, I just leave. There has been many of times that a homeless person, or a drunk person, a looney tune has been in the restroom... If they made me feel uncomfortable I just waited for them to leave. Not a big deal...

Good, now care to explain to me why the 99.5% have to leave a bathroom if a member of the .05% makes them uncomfortable, rather than the other way around?

I'm serious here, do you understand the lack of logic in an argument that argues that it's okay to by law make the majority uncomfortable for the comfort of the minority?

What you say is true. If you're in the bathroom and person who makes you uncomfortable walks in , YOU CAN LEAVE. Same thing holds true for the mentally ill, they can use the gender correct bathroom or if they feel uncomfortable LEAVE.

You have yourself said this is an option, it all depends on which person you think should be made to leave.

This argument is ******* stupid. Quite frankly any person who thinks the government should be telling private companies what bathroom policy they should have should be taken out back and shot in the head. That goes for whether you believe the government should mandate gender specific bathrooms OR gender neutral bathrooms. Either way.

As for government facilities, that's easy, make one bathroom in each building gender neutral and tell people "there if you don't want to be identified as a certain gender based on which bathroom you use, THAT's the bathroom you use, no you may not demand that ALL bathrooms be gender neutral"

PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.

Valid points and I agree... except I don't think 99.5% feel uncomfortable with transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. Some also feel that it is a civil rights issue. Also, my example was related to actions people do to make me feel uncomfortable... The Transgender situation has nothing to do with their actions, it has to do with their presence... It is a different argument.

I like your Unisex argument for public facilities and think the Gov should butt out of private business bathrooms. The last think we need are mandates to install unisex bathrooms in our businesses.

We , of course , have no idea what the actual numbers are, but we can be pretty sure that there are far more people who are uncomfortable with the idea of being in the bathroom with the opposite sex (or more importantly to most having an adult of the opposite sex in the bathroom with their CHILD) than there are people who identify as "trans sexual" meaning the minority by far is still trying to tell the majority here " you have to be uncomfortable here to make me comfortable"

That's really what this boils down to a small group of people have convinced the Dem party to defend their right to make a larger group of people uncomfortable to suit their needs. And where does that end? EVERY single time something like this happens a few conservatives will say "no, if we allow this, we know what's next" and of course they are called bigots and racists, but in the end they are proven right.

Where do we draw the line? IS there any minority group of people who have a stance that the Dems won't say "yeah you know what, they have rights?"

Take someone like myself, I seriously defended gay marriage, I don't care who marries who, and I firmly believe that it's none of the government's business, but I see the same people who were screaming that anyone who disagreed with gay marriage was a racist bigot now screaming that anyone who doesn't agree that a person should be able to use whatever bathroom they want is a racist bigot, and frankly I can't help but feel that in 6 months I'm going to be called a racist bigot when pedophiles want the right to have sex with children and I point out that they should be shot instead.

Where does it end?

The term racist and bigot should only be used for people that use hateful and discriminatory language. I haven't heard that from you on this board but I have head it from many others and I imagine you have too.

As for your first point... I imagine that most people who are intolerant of transgender are uncomfortable with a transgender alone in the bathroom with their little girl OR with their little boy OR with their wife and probably with themselves too.

I imagine a little girls seeing a transgender woman come out of a stall and apply her makeup is far less confusing than a little boy seeing the same thing happen in the mens room. Wouldn't you agree?