McCain turns down FEC matching funds

[Gunny]

(CNN) – John McCain will turn down government matching funds for his primary campaign, a move that frees the Arizona senator and campaign finance reform advocate from spending caps.

more ... http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/11/mccain-turns-down-fec-matching-funds/

The "rest of the story" (not printed in this article) is that "someone", and I DO say that with as much scorn as possible, wants an investigation to see if McCain violated the law by turning down the funds.

Not naming names because I didn't catch who on the news. Of course, I could have just titled the thread as rayboy would: "Bush and Cheney Try to Fuck Over McCain". After all, it HAS to be THEIR fault.

GMAFB, huh?

 

[rayboyusmc]

Not naming names because I didn't catch who on the news. Of course, I could have just titled the thread as rayboy would: "Bush and Cheney Try to Fuck Over McCain". After all, it HAS to be THEIR fault.

Are you talking about the Push Polling they did in the 2000 election, or are you just pissing into the wind again, Gunny.

I also believe when he was short on funds he said he would take these funds.
Now it's okay.

For someone who is not a Bush supporter, you sure seem to disagree with those who don't like him. How, many criticisms of Retired have you posted on his hate for liberals?

 

[CharlestonChad]

Are you talking about the Push Polling they did in the 2000 election, or are you just pissing into the wind again, Gunny.

I also believe when he was short on funds he said he would take these funds.
Now it's okay.

For someone who is not a Bush supporter, you sure seem to disagree with those who don't like him. How, many criticisms of Retired have you posted on his hate for liberals?

I consider gunny and retired to be the same poster under different names. No reason to think otherwise.

 

[Larkinn]

The "rest of the story" (not printed in this article) is that "someone", and I DO say that with as much scorn as possible, wants an investigation to see if McCain violated the law by turning down the funds.

Not naming names because I didn't catch who on the news. Of course, I could have just titled the thread as rayboy would: "Bush and Cheney Try to Fuck Over McCain". After all, it HAS to be THEIR fault.

GMAFB, huh?

Could it be that you left out a crucial bit?

You know, the bit about how John McCain now wants to turn down public funds after he took out a loan with the public funds as collateral?

But I guess if you included all the facts people might come to the "wrong" conclusion, eh?

 

[Paulie]

I was under the impression he wasn't able to do this.

 

[jillian]

I was under the impression he wasn't able to do this.

No... he can't because once you sign the contract and benefit from the funds, you have to live with the limitations.

This is just a way for him to benefit from the money, since it kept him afloat when he needed it, but now he doesn't want to live with the spending limits.

 

[Larkinn]

I was under the impression he wasn't able to do this.

Its a bit unclear, but it seems like its probably illegal. Only problem is the FEC can't rule on the illegality since there are only 2 members.

Of course on the other side they can't rule on the legality either and approve McCains withdrawal since there are only 2 members.

 

[Gunny]

Are you talking about the Push Polling they did in the 2000 election, or are you just pissing into the wind again, Gunny.

I also believe when he was short on funds he said he would take these funds.
Now it's okay.

For someone who is not a Bush supporter, you sure seem to disagree with those who don't like him. How, many criticisms of Retired have you posted on his hate for liberals?

Dude, do you need some meds, or what? What's Bush got to do with this thread? Note: It says "McCain" in the subject line. Hello?

Now let's try and go through this slowly for the comprehension-impaired:

Did I not state that I was not naming any names because I didn't know who was doing it? This is where you nod your head and say, "Yes, you did."

I caught it on the news before work and found an article that doesn't say much. Did I post that? This is where you nod your head again.

Now I don't give a rat's ass if it's BUSH himself calling for the inverstigation I think it's stupid. I believe I stated something to that effect as well.

Go sit in the fucking corner until you can get some oxygen into that petrified brain of yours.

 

[Gunny]

I consider gunny and retired to be the same poster under different names. No reason to think otherwise.

Then you're dumber than your avatar looks.

 

[Gunny]

Could it be that you left out a crucial bit?

You know, the bit about how John McCain now wants to turn down public funds after he took out a loan with the public funds as collateral?

But I guess if you included all the facts people might come to the "wrong" conclusion, eh?

What's to include or not include? Is there not a link posted to the article? Does it state in that article that McCain took out a loan with the public funds as collateral?

I think it does not. How do you propose I include information in an article copyrighted by CNN?

That's additional information. Got something to corroborate it? Like a link?

 

[Gunny]

I was under the impression he wasn't able to do this.

Wasn't able to do what, specifically?

 

[Gunny]

Could it be that you left out a crucial bit?

You know, the bit about how John McCain now wants to turn down public funds after he took out a loan with the public funds as collateral?

But I guess if you included all the facts people might come to the "wrong" conclusion, eh?

Let's try THIS again ....

McCain turns down public matching funds for primary

By The Associated Press
02.12.08
WASHINGTON — Sen. John McCain, a passionate advocate of limits on campaign finances, is turning down government matching funds for the primary to free him to spend more money as he prepares for a general election contest.

McCain, who appears headed to win the Republican presidential nomination, sent letters to the Federal Election Commission and the Treasury Department notifying them of his decision to withdraw from the presidential election-financing system.

McCain had asked to participate in the public system last summer when his campaign, his fundraising and his poll numbers hit a low point that threatened to unravel his candidacy.

Though the FEC declared him eligible to receive $5.8 million in December, the money would not have become available until next month. By accepting the money, moreover, McCain would have been required to limit his spending for the primary to about $54 million — an amount the campaign was close to reaching now.

By not taking the money, McCain is free to raise more and to promote his presidential candidacy until the Republican nominating convention in September.

Campaign officials said McCain could still participate in the public-financing system in the general election, when the nominees for the two parties would be eligible for about $85 million to spend between their nominating conventions and Election Day on Nov. 4.

McCain was the only remaining presidential candidate in either party who had been certified for primary public funds. His remaining GOP rivals, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, and Democratic Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton did not ask the FEC to be part of the public system. The money, which comes from the $3 taxpayers can set aside in their tax returns, matches the amount of money candidates raise in contributions of $250 or less.

In 2004, President Bush and Democrats Howard Dean and Sen. John Kerry did not participate in the primary public money system. This year, even more candidates chose to bypass it. Campaign-finance experts say the system has become obsolete because it places unrealistic restrictions on candidate spending.

McCain obtained a $3 million line of credit in November, but did not secure the loan with the matching funds. Instead he used his fundraising list and a personal life insurance policy as collateral.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=19666

Doesn't look like I left out too much.

 

[Larkinn]

Let's try THIS again ....



Doesn't look like I left out too much.

Right. Not that much. Only the reason why McCain can't pull out of public funding. Thats not relevant at all when discussing McCain getting sued for pulling out of public funding.

 

[Gunny]

Right. Not that much. Only the reason why McCain can't pull out of public funding. Thats not relevant at all when discussing McCain getting sued for pulling out of public funding.

Oh, so now it's not that he took a loan with public funding as collateral that he didn't but it's why he can't pull out of public funding ... I see ... this is a question that changes every time I come up with an answer.

If he couldn't pull out of public funding he would have been accused instead of only being investigated to see whether or not he can ... right?

So why is it YOU think he cannot withdraw from public funding?

 

[Gunny]

Right. Not that much. Only the reason why McCain can't pull out of public funding. Thats not relevant at all when discussing McCain getting sued for pulling out of public funding.

Here's more of the article:

...Past requests by candidates to withdraw from the system, including ones from Elizabeth Dole in 2000 and Dean in 2004, have been approved by a vote of the election commission. But the commission currently does not have a quorum and would be unable to approve McCain’s request.

Bob Biersack, a spokesman for the FEC, said that while the practice of the FEC had been to vote on such requests, it is not required by law.

“The statute says a vote of four commissioners is required to certify someone as eligible,” he said. “There is nothing in the statute that talks about withdrawing from the program.”

Brad Smith, a former chairman of the Federal Election Commission and now a law professor at Capital University Law School in Columbus, Ohio, said McCain should have no legal impediment because he has not received any public money and he does not appear to have encumbered it.

“The best interpretation of the law is that he can do this,” Smith said.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=19666

So I STILL don't see your point. Question going to change again?

 

[Larkinn]

Oh, so now it's not that he took a loan with public funding as collateral that he didn't but it's why he can't pull out of public funding ... I see ... this is a question that changes every time I come up with an answer.

WTF? This is incoherent.

If he couldn't pull out of public funding he would have been accused instead of only being investigated to see whether or not he can ... right?

Under FEC rules, a candidate who uses a certification for federal funds as collateral for a loan must remain within the public financing system. However McCain didn't entirely do that. He said "if things go badly, I will get public financing". Adding the conditional may change things...as I said, its unclear.

 

[Gunny]

WTF? This is incoherent.

Hardly. You accused me first of leaving one thing out, then when I showed you were wrong about that you came up with something else I supposedly left out.

Under FEC rules, a candidate who uses a certification for federal funds as collateral for a loan must remain within the public financing system. However McCain didn't entirely do that. He said "if things go badly, I will get public financing". Adding the conditional may change things...as I said, its unclear.

Did you bother reading my post or the link I provided? McCain took out his loan with a life insurance policy as collateral, not public funding.

 

[Larkinn]

Hardly. You accused me first of leaving one thing out, then when I showed you were wrong about that you came up with something else I supposedly left out.

Umm, no. I accused you of leaving out the same thing, twice.

Did you bother reading my post or the link I provided? McCain took out his loan with a life insurance policy as collateral, not public funding.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/21/johnmccain.barackobama

if McCain had not enjoy the fundraising success that comes with primary victories, however, his campaign told the bank he would accept matching public funds from the FEC. Under US election rules, McCain then would be forced to agree to strict spending limits.

 

[Larkinn]

Decent explanation of the issue.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/mccains_fec_problem.php

McCain's FEC Problem
By Paul Kiel - February 22, 2008, 1:17PM

We noted this yesterday. But The Washington Post does a good job today in sizing up the situation and its possible mammoth consequences for McCain's campaign.

There are really two completely separate issues here.

First, McCain opted in to the public finance system for the primaries last year. It meant that his struggling campaign would get $5.8 million in public matching funds in March. Now that he's effectively the Republican nominee, he wants out, because the system entails a spending limit of $54 million through the end of August. He's almost spent that much already, according to the Post.

So the McCain campaign sent the Federal Election Commission a letter (pdf) earlier this month saying that he was opting out. But there's a problem. And FEC Chairman David Mason, a Republican, made it plain in his letter (pdf) yesterday: McCain can't tell the FEC that he's out of the system. He can only ask.

And the FEC, which normally has six commissioners, can't give him an answer until it has a quorum of four commissioners. It currently only has two. That's because the Senate has been deadlocked over four nominees; Democrats insist on a separate confirmation vote for vote-suppression guru Hans von Spakovsky, and Republicans insist on a single vote for all nominees.

The second issue has to do with McCain's tricky loan and whether the FEC will conclude that it locked him into the system. But for now, that's really ancillary to the first issue.

It is a serious issue. As the Post reports, "Knowingly violating the spending limit is a criminal offense that could put McCain at risk of stiff fines and up to five years in prison."

It's really unclear as to what might happen next. McCain's lawyer says he's out of the system and that's that. It's unclear if they'll respond to Mason's letter. And it's unclear if the FEC can do anything or be forced to do anything, without the necessary quorum. It's literally an unprecedented situation.

For now, however, the consequences for the dispute are mostly political for McCain, as election law expert Rick Hasen writes:

McCain faces at least a political problem. More than anyone else, Sen. McCain's name is synonymous with campaign finance reform (think McCain-Feingold). If he's arguably in violation of the law, that will tarnish his reputation. He may be able to make technically correct arguments that he is not in violation, but the smell is bad.

Note: Hasen cites Mark Schmitt on a certain irony. Pretty much everyone agrees that the public financing system for the primaries is broken -- the spending limits are too low and the payouts are too late (March). As Steve Weissman of the Campaign Finance Institute put it to me, the primary system in its current state is "basically only for losing candidates" -- candidates without the fundraising wherewithal to really compete.

But McCain has refused to support efforts to fix the system, so in a way, he has himself to blame for the fact that the system is so unworkable that he's possibly bent the rules to get out of it.

 

[jreeves]

Right. Not that much. Only the reason why McCain can't pull out of public funding. Thats not relevant at all when discussing McCain getting sued for pulling out of public funding.

Sounds like he is going to use public funding for the general election though.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89538146

McCain intends to take public funds. He accuses Obama of breaking a promise to do the same. But the cash machine built by the Obama campaign may dwarf the $84 million federal grant that he would get from Washington under public financing.

McCain and Obama seemed to strike an agreement on public financing months ago. If both were nominated and one said yes, so would the other. Obama even answered in the affirmative on a questionnaire that asked if he would use public funds.

Since then, however, Obama's fundraising has shot into the stratosphere. The higher it goes, the less incentive he has to take public funds.

McCain is making the promise a campaign issue. "I made a promise to the American people that I would" take public funds, he said in a recent campaign appearance. "And he made a promise. Apparently he may not keep that."