McCain turns down FEC matching funds

[jillian]

Everyone is missing the entire picture here. It was Obama that pledged public funding, should he win the nomination. It is Obama that balked when McCain agreed. Obama has now stated that he will not accept publc funds. McCain is simply covering his ass. You damn leftist morons are all foaming at the mouth about this, yet no one dares to call Obama on his reversal of hs own pledge.

P.S. Jillian, that is called flip-flopping.

uh uh... you're getting it backwards. obama said he'd use the funds IF THE REPUB AGREED. McCain is the one backing out. I'd say THAT'S the flip flop. ;o)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

uh uh... you're getting it backwards. obama said he'd use the funds IF THE REPUB AGREED. McCain is the one backing out. I'd say THAT'S the flip flop. ;o)

Learn to read, They pledged to use the funds after the primary season, a separate event. Obama has since recanted. Mc Cain has not.

 

[jillian]

Learn to read, They pledged to use the funds after the primary season, a separate event. Obama has since recanted. Mc Cain has not.

they have the right to decline the funds if they haven't benefitted from them.

mccain did benefit from them .... and now he wants to weasel out of the restrictions.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

they have the right to decline the funds if they haven't benefitted from them.

mccain did benefit from them .... and now he wants to weasel out of the restrictions.

Again READ and comprehend. McCain did not benefit from any funds. But that is beside the point. McCain and Obama made a pledge that after the Primaries they would use matching funds. McCain has not left that agreement but Obama has.

Two separate events, before the conventions is one and after is another, Different amounts are involved as well. Just admit you do not care when a liberal "flip flops" and we will be done here.

 

[jillian]

Again READ and comprehend. McCain did not benefit from any funds. But that is beside the point. McCain and Obama made a pledge that after the Primaries they would use matching funds. McCain has not left that agreement but Obama has.

Two separate events, before the conventions is one and after is another, Different amounts are involved as well. Just admit you do not care when a liberal "flip flops" and we will be done here.

Concern yourself with your own reading comprehension first....

McCain DID benefit from the funds because he took a loan based on them.

That so hard for you to figure out?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Concern yourself with your own reading comprehension first....

McCain DID benefit from the funds because he took a loan based on them.

That so hard for you to figure out?

Yet you have no evidence. McCain has claimed his loan was NOT based on those funds, are you now a mind reader? Do you have any evidence at all he is lying?

But agian you are avoiding the point. McCain and Obama PLEDGED that after the Conventions they BOTH if they won, would use matching funds and the limits they impose, which is SEPARATE from the issue of whether McCain can withdraw from this PHASE of it.

Obama has since recanted and stated he would NOT abide by the agreement. Thus he has FLIP FLOPPED , or at least as you claim McCain has.

Do though keep trying to change the subject and muddy the water with things that have nothing to do with Obama FLIP FLOPPING.

 

[Gunny]

they have the right to decline the funds if they haven't benefitted from them.

mccain did benefit from them .... and now he wants to weasel out of the restrictions.

Problem is, there is no concrete evidence that McCain has benefitted from them. You are jumping to a conclusion based on partisanship when it is clear for the links that whether or not McCain acutally did benefit from them is UNCLEAR.

The determination will be made the FEC if and when it decides to actually become a real entity. But we both know that won't matter. This will just go in the file with the rest of the baseless "Bush lied ..." stories we've had to suffer the past 7 years.

If McCain is indeed guilty of no wrongdoing and wins the Presidency, that will not spare us from having to listen to the accusation once a quarter along with any other unsupported allegations y'all wish to regurgitate.

 

[Gunny]

Concern yourself with your own reading comprehension first....

McCain DID benefit from the funds because he took a loan based on them.

That so hard for you to figure out?

Really? There are 3 different links in this thread with differing accounts. You choose to accept as fact only the one that suits your political agenda.

I'd call that a problem with objectivity.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

uh uh... you're getting it backwards. obama said he'd use the funds IF THE REPUB AGREED. McCain is the one backing out. I'd say THAT'S the flip flop. ;o)

Here you go sweety. It is even a liberal source. So it must be true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/15/obama-wont-pledge-to-tak_n_86900.html

 

[Dogger]

There are legal and factual questions which should be resolved, but a one thing is clear: McCain did receive benefits from participating in the Matching Funds Program.

If you think I'm lying, you can review the 27 pages of Loan documents at http://www.fec.gov/press/press2008/20080220c1image.pdf, or you can review the DNC Lawsuit allegations at http://democrats.org/page/-/pdf/20070414_DNCComplaint.pdf.

The DNC lawsuit has arguments and factual allegations. The relevant portions of the loan docs are set out starting with paragraph 44 (bottom, page 13). Take the legal arguments for what they are worth, but the facts alleged match the loan documents.

Had McCain pledged his matching funds as loan security, he would no doubt be committing a felony with his current campaign spending. However, Mr. Straight Talk tried to do an end run around around clear legal requirements with provisions that effectively provided as follows: "I'm not granting a security interest today (wink, wink), but if my campaign tanks and donations dry up, I'll reapply for matching funds, campaign until I get them, grant you a first priority security interest in those funds, and use them to pay you back."

In the meantime, however, the Loan Documents gave the Bank control over McCain's matching funds by requiring Bank consent before he spent or encumbered them (Paragraph 47) and requiring compliance with the rules of the matching funds program to preserve his right to receive those funds (Paragraph 48). That is the very essence of a security agreement - setting aside collateral, preserving it and tying it up so that it remains available to satisfy repayment of a loan.

Even if it's not "security" as provided by federal law, though, the funds were used as an inducement for the loan. That is an unmistakeable benefit to McCain.

In addition, several states have ballot access requirements (fee payments, signature collection requirements, etc.) that are reduced or excused if the candidate participates in the matching funds program. THE DNC alleges that McCain used his eligibility certification to avail himself of those relaxed access benefits.

So the facts reveal two things: 1) McCain got two clear benefits from participating in the program; and 2) anyone who still believes the McCain "Straight Talk" Myth should seek the help of others before conducting any personal business.

 

[Paulie]

Why would you want someone worse?

I don't personally see any of them as worse than the other. I think they all suck equally.

Bush was supposed to be a fiscal conservative, and he's endorsed spending on quite a liberal level. I don't see McCain being any better. His talk means NOTHING to me. Neither does anything in his record, in regards to how conservative he MIGHT be. He's going to be a good little bitch for the establishment if he gets elected. You wait and see.

 

[jreeves]

There is no one running who is worse or more ignorant on economic issues.

There is 30 years of public service to judge from, wonder how his fiscal responsibility is from that record?

 

[jreeves]

I don't personally see any of them as worse than the other. I think they all suck equally.

Bush was supposed to be a fiscal conservative, and he's endorsed spending on quite a liberal level. I don't see McCain being any better. His talk means NOTHING to me. Neither does anything in his record, in regards to how conservative he MIGHT be. He's going to be a good little bitch for the establishment if he gets elected. You wait and see.

You have to judge people from their legislative histories, 0 dollars in earmarks that is different than 'most politicians'.

 

[jillian]

Here you go sweety. It is even a liberal source. So it must be true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/15/obama-wont-pledge-to-tak_n_86900.html

I don't think I disputed that Obama said he'd take public funds if his republican adversary did, honey.

But again, that's not illegal. Getting a loan based on the public funds and THEN changing your mind probably is.

 

[Gunny]

I don't personally see any of them as worse than the other. I think they all suck equally.

Bush was supposed to be a fiscal conservative, and he's endorsed spending on quite a liberal level. I don't see McCain being any better. His talk means NOTHING to me. Neither does anything in his record, in regards to how conservative he MIGHT be. He's going to be a good little bitch for the establishment if he gets elected. You wait and see.

While I will agree with you that I don't see them as all that different, McCain is the lesser of the evils, IMO, and while I was considering the not voting thing ... the lefties on this board the past week have proven why the Democrats are the worse choice and have no business being in power.

A bunch of immature children who have resorted to acting like children because the strain is on them as their boy shows himself to be the buffoon he is time and again.

Now someone call ME a racist. Dirtbags.

 

[Dogger]

It's hard to believe that the editor of the Harvard Law Review would making a binding commitment without any discussion of the terms. Indeed, here are Obama's exact words: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

That is an agreement to negotiate and nothing else. Inferring a binding agreement from that is unfounded, as Obama wants to resolve the issues regarding the participation of "third parties." In other words, he does not want to tie his hands and then get overun by attacks from Sec. 527 groups like the Swiftboat Liars for Bush.

McCain has not agreed to terms, so Obama is properly concerned about sandbagging. And given McCain's tricky behavior on primary campaign funding, Obama should not tie his own hands when McCain has proven he will ignore his obligations the minute it suits him.

 

[Larkinn]

Well, except for the fact he says he's not.

Hmm I think the chairman of the FEC knows more about the FEC than McCain does, no?

I realize you on the left are just frothing at the mouth at his not being able to compete and that's the only thing driving this train, but I really don't care whether he is or is not.

Tell HIM he has to stay in cuz you said so. Don't tell me.

He doesn't have to stay in cause I said so. Its the FEC and the courts words that matter on this. But its ok when Republicans break the law, right?

 

[Larkinn]

Everyone is missing the entire picture here. It was Obama that pledged public funding, should he win the nomination. It is Obama that balked when McCain agreed. Obama has now stated that he will not accept publc funds. McCain is simply covering his ass. You damn leftist morons are all foaming at the mouth about this, yet no one dares to call Obama on his reversal of hs own pledge.

P.S. Jillian, that is called flip-flopping.

Obama pledged ORALLY.

McCain took out a LOAN with the federal money as collateral.

You do, I hope, realize the difference?

 

[Larkinn]

Again READ and comprehend. McCain did not benefit from any funds.

Yes, actually he did. He got a loan based on the fact that if he did poorly he would accept the funds.

 

[Larkinn]

Yet you have no evidence. McCain has claimed his loan was NOT based on those funds, are you now a mind reader? Do you have any evidence at all he is lying?

Umm, seriously? Its pretty much known what the agreement was. McCain has a different interpretation of the events. However it is proven FACT that McCain referenced the federal funding and said if he was doing poorly he would take that funding to pay back the loan.