McCain is the Greatest Flip Flopper of all time

[jreeves]

Why? Just because that's what Bush did, you think Obama will too?

Under Bush, Federal Spending Increases at Fastest Rate in 30 Years

Since 2001, even with record low inflation, U.S. federal spending has increased by a massive 28.8% (19.7% in real dollars)—with non-defense discretionary growth of 35.7% (25.3% in real dollars)—the highest rate of federal government growth since the presidencies of Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson. This increase has resulted in the largest budget deficits in U.S. history, an estimated $520 billion in fiscal year 2004 alone. Furthermore, the projected spending for 2005 is a conservative estimate, since it doesn’t include at least $50 billion for the 2005 cost of the Iraq occupation.

The Republican Congress has enthusiastically assisted the budget bloat. Inflation-adjusted spending on the combined budgets of the 101 largest programs they vowed to eliminate in 1995 has grown by 27 percent.

The GOP was once effective at controlling nondefense spending. The final nondefense budgets under Clinton were a combined $57 billion smaller than what he proposed from 1996 to 2001. Under Bush, Congress passed budgets that spent a total of $91 billion more than the president requested for domestic programs. Bush signed every one of those bills during his first term. Even if Congress passes Bush’s new budget exactly as proposed, not a single cabinet-level agency will be smaller than when Bush assumed office.

Republicans could reform the budget rules that stack the deck in favor of more spending. Unfortunately, senior House Republicans are fighting the changes. The GOP establishment in Washington today has become a defender of big government.

I agree we need to cut social spending dramatically.....


Here I thought the democrats were in control of both houses of Congress.

 

[sealybobo]

Obama has proposed 1 trillion dollars in new governmental spending. What makes me think that Obama wants to spend us into bankruptcy given Carter and Clinton? Because Obama isn't Clinton or Carter correct? Duh....

I will school you if needs be, Democrats and Republicans have spent us into a 9 trillion dollars of debt.

ok, i'll give you that both parties spend too much, but pick one.

one spends on the top 10 percent and the other spends on the other 90. one spends corporations overseas and one backs american labor.

the dems wil spend in america and on america and the other spends in iraq.

basically, the dems are the lesser of two evils.

reagan tripled the debt and bush doubled it.

oh, I forgot, you don't think the debt matters. then start paying just the min. on your credit card and max out it out. see if that matters stupid.

 

[Gunny]

God I feel so much dumber having read sealyboobo's crap ... like I need to have the inside of my skull scraped.

 

[jreeves]

ok, i'll give you that both parties spend too much, but pick one.

one spends on the top 10 percent and the other spends on the other 90. one spends corporations overseas and one backs american labor.

the dems wil spend in america and on america and the other spends in iraq.

basically, the dems are the lesser of two evils.

reagan tripled the debt and bush doubled it.

oh, I forgot, you don't think the debt matters. then start paying just the min. on your credit card and max out it out. see if that matters stupid.

I give you Bush, he was never a conservative.....

But Reagan, Vetoed bills only to have Democrats in Congress pass more and more spending bills over top of his vetoes....
AllPolitics - Surprise! Congress Overrides A Reagan Veto - September 20, 1982
When the ayes and the nays were totted up, it appeared at first to be a devastating defeat for Ronald Reagan. Both the House of Representatives and the Senate voted to override the President's veto last month of a $ 14.2 billion supplemental spending bill. It marked the first time that Congress had overturned a Reagan veto of an economic measure, * and it did so in impressive numbers: the vote in the House was 301 to 117 -- 22 more than the two-thirds needed for an override; in the Republican-controlled Senate the tally was 60 to 30, exactly the required margin. But if the rebuke was supposed to sting, the White House appeared surprisingly unruffled. "We're going to have a lot more chances, 'cause I'm going to do a lot more vetoing." said a feisty Reagan as he campaigned for Republican candidates in Utah last Friday. " Any time there is an attempt to bust the budget, I will veto."

 

[jreeves]

ok, i'll give you that both parties spend too much, but pick one.

one spends on the top 10 percent and the other spends on the other 90. one spends corporations overseas and one backs american labor.

the dems wil spend in america and on america and the other spends in iraq.

basically, the dems are the lesser of two evils.

reagan tripled the debt and bush doubled it.

oh, I forgot, you don't think the debt matters. then start paying just the min. on your credit card and max out it out. see if that matters stupid.

Here's a little waste for you....both Dems and Reps on that list...

Citizens Against Government Waste:

The French Kiss Off Award
to Representative Mike Thompson (D-Calif.) for $211,509 in olive fruit fly research in Paris, France

The Taxpayers Get Teed Off Award
to House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) for $3 million for The First Tee in the defense appropriations bill.

The Tax Dollars on Drugs Award
to Representative John Murtha (D-Pa.) for $23 million for the National Drug Intelligence Center.

The Pantheon of Pork Awardto Senator Robert Byrd (D-W.VA) for $386 million in pork.

The Narcissist Award
to Representative Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) for $1,950,000 for the Charles B. Rangel Center for Public Service

The Pig in Sheep's Clothing Awardto Montana Senators Max Baucaus (D) and Jon Tester (D) for $148,950 for the Montana Sheep Institute.

The Unidentified Fiscal Object
Award to Representative Ann Esshoo (D-Calif.) for $1.6 million for the Allen Telescope Array.

See how one can be partisan....

 

[midcan5]

God I feel so much dumber having read sealyboobo's crap ... like I need to have the inside of my skull scraped.

Not an answer.

Reagan and Bush both, because of their tax policies, have brought America closer to being a third world nation. The infrastructure is collapsing as the rich move money and jobs off shore.

And social spending, so called socialistic entitlements, only account for 4% of each tax dollar. Given that, the wingnuts are barking up the wrong tree, but corporations love that they do.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

 

[jreeves]

Not an answer.

Reagan and Bush both, because of their tax policies, have brought America closer to being a third world nation. The infrastructure is collapsing as the rich move money and jobs off shore.

And social spending, so called socialistic entitlements, only account for 4% of each tax dollar. Given that, the wingnuts are barking up the wrong tree, but corporations love that they do.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

BS 685 billion is not 4% of each tax dollar.

 

[sealybobo]

Here's a little waste for you....both Dems and Reps on that list...

Citizens Against Government Waste:

The French Kiss Off Award
to Representative Mike Thompson (D-Calif.) for $211,509 in olive fruit fly research in Paris, France

The Taxpayers Get Teed Off Award
to House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) for $3 million for The First Tee in the defense appropriations bill.

The Tax Dollars on Drugs Award
to Representative John Murtha (D-Pa.) for $23 million for the National Drug Intelligence Center.

The Pantheon of Pork Awardto Senator Robert Byrd (D-W.VA) for $386 million in pork.

The Narcissist Award
to Representative Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) for $1,950,000 for the Charles B. Rangel Center for Public Service

The Pig in Sheep's Clothing Awardto Montana Senators Max Baucaus (D) and Jon Tester (D) for $148,950 for the Montana Sheep Institute.

The Unidentified Fiscal Object
Award to Representative Ann Esshoo (D-Calif.) for $1.6 million for the Allen Telescope Array.

See how one can be partisan....

Isn't it funny that even though the Dems control both houses, the GOP still spent the most pork in 2007? That's the only way the Dems could get anything done with a one person majority. You gotta pay the GOP to get them to help fix America. If you don't give them their pork, they'll take their toys and go home.

 

[midcan5]

BS 685 billion is not 4% of each tax dollar.

The stat is from Bageant's book linked above, but no footnote. It is hard to find exact statistics in this area although government spending in total has become a large part of the GDP.

 

[sealybobo]

BS 685 billion is not 4% of each tax dollar.

Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do.

 

[jreeves]

The stat is from Bageant's book linked above, but no footnote. It is hard to find exact statistics in this area although government spending in total has become a large part of the GDP.

This might help, for determining what level social spending plays......

Doesn't look like 4% though...

 

[jreeves]

Isn't it funny that even though the Dems control both houses, the GOP still spent the most pork in 2007? That's the only way the Dems could get anything done with a one person majority. You gotta pay the GOP to get them to help fix America. If you don't give them their pork, they'll take their toys and go home.

Actually the DEMS had more earmarks than the GOP, so they are the biggest pigs this year.

 

[jreeves]

Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do.

Liberals are all idiots....My proof.....


Sealybobo(liberal)-----

"Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do."

 

[editec]

This might help, for determining what level social spending plays......

Doesn't look like 4% though...



View attachment 5686

WELFARE is 4% of the national budget.

Welfare actually comes out of the FICA revenue.

Social Security and Medicade are both paid for by social security taxes and medicade taxes.

They are really in a different budget than military, welfare, and so forth,

That is why they are taken out of our paychecks as SEPARATE ITEMS from FICA.

Now unless you think (as you obviously do) that social security is welfare, then you must also sign onto the same principle that something like military pension is ALSO welfare.

I happen to think that both are merely social contracts being fulfilled.
People piad for social security insurance, so that is not welfare/

People also paid for their military pensions with their service, so that is not welfare either.

Why some of you have trouble understanding these obvious facts, I cannot quite understand.

 

[jreeves]

WELFARE is 4% of the national budget.

Welfare actually comes out of the FICA revenue.

Social Security and Medicade are both paid for by social security taxes and medicade taxes.

They are really in a different budget than military, welfare, and so forth,

That is why they are taken out of our paychecks as SEPARATE ITEMS from FICA.

Now unless you think (as you obviously do) that social security is welfare, then you must also sign onto the same principle that something like military pension is ALSO welfare.

I happen to think that both are merely social contracts being fulfilled.
People piad for social security insurance, so that is not welfare/

People also paid for their military pensions with their service, so that is not welfare either.

Why some of you have trouble understanding these obvious facts, I cannot quite understand.

Medicaid and Medicare both use general taxes to fund their programs.

Medicaid funding accounts for 12.8 percent of general fund appropriations for FY 2001. Major developments include the following.


General fund appropriations for Medicaid for FY 2001 increased by 7.4 percent over spending levels in FY 2000, compared with an overall growth rate of 6.6 percent for general fund appropriations.


Growth in total Medicaid appropriations-general funds and earmarked funds-is 6.4 percent for FY 2001.


Earmarked revenues for Medicaid decreased as a percentage of state support from 16.5 percent in FY 2000 to 15.7 percent in FY 2001. Forty-one states earmarked funds for Medicaid
MEDICAID FUNDING


Funding for Medicare comes partially from payroll taxes, known as FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) taxes. FICA comprises Social Security tax and Medicare tax. The rate of the Medicare tax is 2.9 percent. Employers withhold 1.45 percent from their employees and match it with another 1.45 percent [Ref]. High-income Social Security beneficiaries also pay income tax on their Social Security income, some of which goes toward Medicare. This money goes into a trust fund used to pay doctors, hospitals and private insurance companies when Medicare patients use their services. This trust fund has been more difficult to manage than the Social Security trust fund, because health care expenditures are harder to track and can change quickly. Medicare Part B is partially (about 25 percent) paid for by premiums and co-pays. In all, Medicare costs about $277 billion per year, roughly 13 percent of the total federal budget [Ref].

HowStuffWorks "How Medicare Works"

 

[midcan5]

Liberals are all idiots....My proof.....

Sealybobo(liberal)-----

"Gop voters are so dumb...

That is proof? You may have actually proven beyond a reasonable doubt the truth of the categorization of GOP voters. Why do they vote against their own interests is the question, not your personal biases towards trickle down.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

 

[editec]

Jjeeves.

Thanks for the heads up explaining the actual numbers and where fuding is coming from.

Now look at the chart I weas responding to where those numbers represent about 75% of the budget.

You see my point?

That chart is specious. It pretends that the social security and medicade are run on the same budgets as everything else,

They aren't.

 

[jreeves]

Jjeeves.

Thanks for the heads up explaining the actual numbers and where fuding is coming from.

Now look at the chart I weas responding to where those numbers represent about 75% of the budget.

You see my point?

That chart is specious. It pretends that the social security and medicade are run on the same budgets as everything else,

They aren't.

Actually even excluding entitlement programs, means tested welfare is in excess of 434 billion a year. Means tested welfare would include among other things, Welfare, foodstamps, WIC, head start programs for the poor, housing assistance programs....etc....

While entitlements should be included in that figure, a good portion of Medicare is funded from general revenue, Medicaid is strictly funded from general tax revenue and Social Security is being used for general programs.

 

[jreeves]

That is proof? You may have actually proven beyond a reasonable doubt the truth of the categorization of GOP voters. Why do they vote against their own interests is the question, not your personal biases towards trickle down.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

Gop voters actually believe in personal responsibility and small government. It's not that they are against charity, they are against government mandated charity. They believe that the people hold the solutions to society's problems and not the government. They believe that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector.

 

[Charles_Main]

Seems to me sense he has secured the nomination, Obama is making a serious run for this title. I have not seen someone make so many fundamental position changes in such a short time ever in my 20 years of following politics.