Maybe the bailout is the right thing to do

[Ravi]

Interesting article in the NYTs that explains why the bailout is really needed, and it doesn't have much to do with saving the asses on Wall Street.

If banks don't feel comfortable loaning to each other, no one gets credit, for one. People stop buying things, businesses can't pay their employees.

A run on money funds could force fund managers to shy away from commercial paper, fearing the loans were no longer safe. One reason given by the Reserve Primary Fund for breaking the buck was that it had bought Lehman commercial paper with a face value of $785 million that was now worth little because of its bankruptcy. If money market funds became fearful of buying commercial paper, that would make it far more difficult for companies to raise the cash needed to pay employees, for instance. At that point, it would not just be the credit markets that were frozen, but commerce itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/b...1222956540-2Det0ggd1c6+1EnmvNEvsA&oref=slogin

 

[DiamondDave]

This IS more about the credit market than Wall Street...

Still does not make it the job of the government to do this..

People who work and succeed... who do not fuck up and buy more than they should... will still get the credit... Businesses who earn profit and do things the right way will still get the credit.... good business is good business... it is the fucked up people buying above their means and extending their credit, and the businesses doing the same, that will suffer if no bailout comes

 

[Ravi]

This IS more about the credit market than Wall Street...

Still does not make it the job of the government to do this..

People who work and succeed... who do not fuck up and buy more than they should... will still get the credit... Businesses who earn profit and do things the right way will still get the credit.... good business is good business... it is the fucked up people buying above their means and extending their credit, and the businesses doing the same, that will suffer if no bailout comes

Did you even read the article?

Just as important, in the eyes of federal officials, was that money market funds had long been viewed by investors as akin to bank accounts — a safe place to store cash and earn interest on that money. Despite lacking federal deposit insurance, these funds held $3.4 trillion in assets.
“Breaking the buck was the Rubicon,” said a federal official. “This was the first time in the crisis that you could see stories talking about how it was affecting real people.”
Since that Monday, big institutional investors — like pension funds and college endowments — had been pulling money out of money funds. On Tuesday, individual investors joined the stampede.

I do everything right, and yet if gone uncorrected this entire mess could hurt me just as much as it could hurt Joe Podunk that bought a McMansion...why should I suffer for things others have done?

 

[DiamondDave]

Did you even read the article?

I do everything right, and yet if gone uncorrected this entire mess could hurt me just as much as it could hurt Joe Podunk that bought a McMansion...why should I suffer for things others have done?

Business will still do and seek out good business... if it will be profitable to extend you some credit, a business WILL indeed do it... as long as we still have a free society and economic system

Now without government mandate to loan to losers who have no ability to actually pay back and who would never normally qualify for a loan because of the high risk and bad business evaluation... some individuals may suffer in getting loans... but.. nobody has a RIGHT to credit..

It is not the government's place or job to do this... unless you believe in increased governmental control over your life... service to the state.

 

[WillowTree]

It was not the right thing to do and every single Senator knows it. They said so before they voted for it. They said they did not like this bill. So why if it is so right did we the taxpayer have to pay six million dollars to toy arrow makers?

 

[Ravi]

Business will still do and seek out good business... if it will be profitable to extend you some credit, a business WILL indeed do it... as long as we still have a free society and economic system

Now without government mandate to loan to losers who have no ability to actually pay back and who would never normally qualify for a loan because of the high risk and bad business evaluation... some individuals may suffer in getting loans... but.. nobody has a RIGHT to credit..

It is not the government's place or job to do this... unless you believe in increased governmental control over your life... service to the state.

No, but I do believe the government should correct the mistakes it has made. And as far as I can tell, this mess is directly attributable to the government's lack of regulation.

A bank won't extend credit if it cannot get it itself.

 

[DiamondDave]

No, but I do believe the government should correct the mistakes it has made. And as far as I can tell, this mess is directly attributable to the government's lack of regulation.

A bank won't extend credit if it cannot get it itself.

No.... the mess is more directly attributed to government mandates such as CRA... bad loans... forcing banks to be required to give out loans it normally would not... and then now us bailing out those same bad loans with even more taxpayer money

Business will ALWAYS seek out good business in a free system with a free economy... that is the nature of business.... so if credit is profitable, it would be extended by business.. the business WOULD find a way to gain the profit than can be derived

 

[Ravi]

No.... the mess is more directly attributed to government mandates such as CRA... bad loans... forcing banks to be required to give out loans it normally would not... and then now us bailing out those same bad loans with even more taxpayer money

Nope, there was no force involved. Rather there was a lack of oversight. Even if that were the truth, which it isn't, it would still be the government's responsibility to clean up it's own mess.

Business will ALWAYS seek out good business in a free system with a free economy... that is the nature of business.... so if credit is profitable, it would be extended by business.. the business WOULD find a way to gain the profit than can be derived

Show me where this has ever worked.

 

[DiamondDave]

Nope, there was no force involved. Rather there was a lack of oversight. Even if that were the truth, which it isn't, it would still be the government's responsibility to clean up it's own mess.

Show me where this has ever worked.

yes.. there WAS indeed force involved... many of these loans are REQUIRED in the legislation... read again, Ravi

Good business will always seek out good business opportunities... it is the nature of free business.. whether you wish to believe it or not, Ravi

 

[Ravi]

yes.. there WAS indeed force involved... many of these loans are REQUIRED in the legislation... read again, Ravi

sigh...show me...we've done exhaustive threads on this very topic. Nowhere is it written that banks were obligated to loan out money to people that cannot pay it back.

Good business will always seek out good business opportunities... it is the nature of free business.. whether you wish to believe it or not, Ravi

So it's never actually been done before, is that what you are saying? Sorry, I don't by the libertarian pipe dream. As far as I know it has never been successful.

 

[editec]

Did you even read the article?

No, but I do understand why the credit crises is doing to destroy this economy if something isn't done.

I do everything right, and yet if gone uncorrected this entire mess could hurt me just as much as it could hurt Joe Podunk that bought a McMansion...why should I suffer for things others have done?

Because you work for a living, dude.

Had you been smart enough to be to the manor born, you would not be one of the sheep that gets fleeced every couple decades.

Blame your parents. Blame your stars.

But for the love of GOD don't blame the people that are actually responsible, because, dude, they ARE reading this board and they take it personally when somebody blames them for their mistakes

And they do have the ability to destroy you in ways you can never quite prove, but only intuit.

 

[DiamondDave]

sigh...show me...we've done exhaustive threads on this very topic. Nowhere is it written that banks were obligated to loan out money to people that cannot pay it back.

So it's never actually been done before, is that what you are saying? Sorry, I don't by the libertarian pipe dream. As far as I know it has never been successful.

Mandates within the act Ravi... it's right there... open your fucking eyes

business has CONTINUALLY done business and extended credit to good business situations... IT IS THE FUCKING NATURE OF BUSINESS IN A FREE BUSINESS ECONOMY... it takes place now.. it has taken place in the past... and it will continue to take place as long as we do not have a goddamn Marxist socialism system

 

[Larkinn]

This IS more about the credit market than Wall Street...

Still does not make it the job of the government to do this..

People who work and succeed... who do not fuck up and buy more than they should... will still get the credit... Businesses who earn profit and do things the right way will still get the credit.... good business is good business... it is the fucked up people buying above their means and extending their credit, and the businesses doing the same, that will suffer if no bailout comes

No, the problem is that they might not. My parents have felt the shrinking of credit already, and they have perfect credit.

 

[Larkinn]

It was not the right thing to do and every single Senator knows it. They said so before they voted for it. They said they did not like this bill. So why if it is so right did we the taxpayer have to pay six million dollars to toy arrow makers?

To get House Republicans to sign on. They like that sort of thing.

 

[Ravi]

Mandates within the act Ravi... it's right there... open your fucking eyes

business has CONTINUALLY done business and extended credit to good business situations... IT IS THE FUCKING NATURE OF BUSINESS IN A FREE BUSINESS ECONOMY... it takes place now.. it has taken place in the past... and it will continue to take place as long as we do not have a goddamn Marxist socialism system

As if. We've never had a free business economy. As far as I know, since the cavemen traded rocks for stones, no one ever has. If you know of one, please show it to me.

And I'd like you to show me what you are talking about in regards to banks being forced to make bad loans. This claim has been repeated over and over again and no one has come up with any proof.

 

[manifold]

Did anyone else see the clips, after the failed house vote, of the republican representives saying that they liked the bill, but voted against it out of spite because they were offended by Pelosi's partisan speech? Un-be-fucking-leavable!

 

[Larkinn]

yes.. there WAS indeed force involved... many of these loans are REQUIRED in the legislation... read again, Ravi

Good business will always seek out good business opportunities... it is the nature of free business.. whether you wish to believe it or not, Ravi

This bullshit again? They weren't forced to do anything. The majority of the loans made were by companies who didn't fall under CRA, CRA was weakened by Bush in '05, exactly when subprime mortgages really started to take off, and there is such a thing called predatory lending practices. These things actually HURT the poor and there were "omg" community groups trying to get it to stop.

This is worlds away from CRA. Its about profit, and the banks were making shitloads of money.

 

[Ravi]

Did anyone else see the clips, after the failed house vote, of the republican representives saying that they liked the bill, but voted against it out of spite because they were offended by Pelosi's partisan speech? Un-be-fucking-leavable!

Link? That would be funny. I just saw the one of Barney Frank laughing at their crybaby tactics.

 

[manifold]

Link? That would be funny. I just saw the one of Barney Frank laughing at their crybaby tactics.

found it.

thought it was worth it's own thread.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/59894-republican-representatives-voted-against-bailout-out-of-spite.html#post816224

 

[DiamondDave]

This bullshit again? They weren't forced to do anything. The majority of the loans made were by companies who didn't fall under CRA, CRA was weakened by Bush in '05, exactly when subprime mortgages really started to take off, and there is such a thing called predatory lending practices. These things actually HURT the poor and there were "omg" community groups trying to get it to stop.

This is worlds away from CRA. Its about profit, and the banks were making shitloads of money.

Because banks making shitloads of money are always in financial trouble and in need of a bailout