Massive, Hidden Object in Space

[American Horse]

I do understand. However, any "stars" out side of Sol influence have nothing to do with Tyche's position or state or orbital configuration as they are too far away (4 LY, 13 LY, 29 LY, 27 LY). The orbital time line of Tyche is based on where it is assumed to be, in orbit around the sun and the only influence there would be the sun itself on what it is-- dark Jupiter or what have you.

WISE will yield much data on this and this is exciting.

Robert

Robert, you need to take into account the period time frame of 27,000,000 years: that's a long time; but not so much astronomically. I recall a few years back in Astronomy Magazine, an article that showed there would be numerous relative close passes from stars that might have an affect way out there where a body was in delicate balance and might be pulled one way or the other.

Our stellar neighborhood is a dynamic one. At one time our sun had some untold number of siblings. They are mostly long departed, but others have come into our vicinity to confuse our view of things.

The orbital timeline is not subject to debate. If it is out there at about 1.5 to 1.7 LY from Sol, its orbital time line will be 27 M years.

If you are speaking 'stars' moving in and out of our Sol Space, that too is not likely, since anything close to something like that would destroy the chance of life to begin here, 4.3 billion years hence. What happens is within about 30 LY of us, enough foreign unknowns move and are swung out of normal orbiting due to any number of events, but they are fleeting or passing events.

But stars are rotating on their own axis, and the orbiting is fixed positions by the galactic influences of location. This s real overview stuff a nd not technical but its essentially the way its set up.This is a good exchange.

Robert

Here is a comment by Adrian L. Melott. Department of Physics and Astronomy. University of Kansas. Lawrence: (He calls it by it's former name Nemesis)


Sun's Rumored Hidden Companion May Not Exist After All
(He refers to the 27-MY cycle and says in part)

" - If Nemesis existed and had this kind of an orbit, its orbit would not be regular," Melott told SPACE.com. "Calculations indicate its orbit would change by 20 to 50 percent due to the gravitational attraction of stars as they pass by us, and the movement of the sun in the galaxy."

Thus, a celestial body like Nemesis couldn't explain such a long-standing, steady cycle, because its orbit itself would not be steady over such a long period of time.

Melott said his data basically puts the final nail in the coffin of the Nemesis idea. But others aren't so sure. Some in the field question whether the fossil record is really accurate enough to establish a cycle going back that far.

"To that I would say, yes we can, now that the accuracy has improved so much," Melott said. "And even if there were errors in the timing, that wouldn't cause something to appear so clockwork and regular, it would smear the signal out."

Melott and Bambach said it leaves the question of what's causing the extinction cycle totally open.



And I will repeat a snippet from my post #38 above; re your words bolded above:
vis: "But stars are rotating on their own axis, and the orbiting is fixed positions by the galactic influences of location. This s real overview stuff a nd not technical but its essentially the way its set up."

" - In the plane of the galaxy the Sun is located in the small spiral arm we call the Orion arm (or local arm) which is really just connection between the two nearest major spiral arms (the Sagitarius and Perseus arms)... [SNIP] ... We pass through a major spiral arm about every 100 million years, taking about 10 million years to go through . . . "

Curious About Astronomy: How often does the Sun pass through a spiral arm in the Milky Way?

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Robert, you need to take into account the period time frame of 27,000,000 years: that's a long time; but not so much astronomically. I recall a few years back in Astronomy Magazine, an article that showed there would be numerous relative close passes from stars that might have an affect way out there where a body was in delicate balance and might be pulled one way or the other.

Our stellar neighborhood is a dynamic one. At one time our sun had some untold number of siblings. They are mostly long departed, but others have come into our vicinity to confuse our view of things.

The orbital timeline is not subject to debate. If it is out there at about 1.5 to 1.7 LY from Sol, its orbital time line will be 27 M years.

If you are speaking 'stars' moving in and out of our Sol Space, that too is not likely, since anything close to something like that would destroy the chance of life to begin here, 4.3 billion years hence. What happens is within about 30 LY of us, enough foreign unknowns move and are swung out of normal orbiting due to any number of events, but they are fleeting or passing events.

But stars are rotating on their own axis, and the orbiting is fixed positions by the galactic influences of location. This s real overview stuff a nd not technical but its essentially the way its set up.

This is a good exchange.

Robert

Here is a comment by Adrian L. Melott. Department of Physics and Astronomy. University of Kansas. Lawrence: (He calls it by it's former name Nemesis)


Sun's Rumored Hidden Companion May Not Exist After All
(He refers to the 27-MY cycle and says in part)

" - If Nemesis existed and had this kind of an orbit, its orbit would not be regular," Melott told SPACE.com. "Calculations indicate its orbit would change by 20 to 50 percent due to the gravitational attraction of stars as they pass by us, and the movement of the sun in the galaxy."

Thus, a celestial body like Nemesis couldn't explain such a long-standing, steady cycle, because its orbit itself would not be steady over such a long period of time.

Melott said his data basically puts the final nail in the coffin of the Nemesis idea. But others aren't so sure. Some in the field question whether the fossil record is really accurate enough to establish a cycle going back that far.

"To that I would say, yes we can, now that the accuracy has improved so much," Melott said. "And even if there were errors in the timing, that wouldn't cause something to appear so clockwork and regular, it would smear the signal out."

Melott and Bambach said it leaves the question of what's causing the extinction cycle totally open.

For me, I would highly question him and his position any day, any time. That is not possible, for if it were, Sol would also fall to that sort of influence, thus changing our celestial dynamics and Earth's position in the Solar System and that would negate life forming.

So many of these people do not do this all the time, or everyday and so they postulate without all the parameters of the bigger picture.

Totally false.

On the other hand, for an example, I am doing an image of The Great Attractor. When I first studied it and found out about and it became the THE news around the news and around the Astronomy world, it was incredible.

Everything in our quadrant of the universe was moving toward this and everyone was trying to find out what it was. I loved it. Then, lo, as new mods were added to the HST, it was discovered that the The Great Attractor wasn't so great after all, and only about 12% for mass and influence they thought. Then, even bigger, beyond TGA, was The Shapley Super Cluster, the largest mass in the universe we know of now.

And THAT was the culprit for drawing everything in 1/4 of the universe toward it at 14% the speed of light. The most massive cluster of galaxies known, ever.

The point is here that so many used to argue that the TGA was a black hole, others, a singularity, still others had some other wild brain theory.

The point here is until we "See" Tyche in some spectra, this is all academic conjecture.

Hope that is helpful.

Robert

 

[BrianH]

So let me see if I understand what you're saying...

This object cannot be seen, but the effects on the objects around it make it "obvious" that there is "something" there correct? And this object is affecting things around it in such a way that it is suggested that it must be 6 times larger than Jupiter? (I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to make sure I understand what's being stated here.)

It makes sense that there has to be some type of gravitation force from "something" that causes on other things. It wouldn't make much sense to assume that these other things are being affected by nothing. I wonder if this "object" is a giant mass of dark matter...possibly the largest we've seen yet? Or do they assume that it's not dark matter?

 

[BrianH]

Ok, I actually just read the link on the OP. WOW....I had no clue of any of this...Very interesting.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

So let me see if I understand what you're saying...

This object cannot be seen, but the effects on the objects around it make it "obvious" that there is "something" there correct? And this object is affecting things around it in such a way that it is suggested that it must be 6 times larger than Jupiter? (I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to make sure I understand what's being stated here.)

It makes sense that there has to be some type of gravitation force from "something" that causes on other things. It wouldn't make much sense to assume that these other things are being affected by nothing. I wonder if this "object" is a giant mass of dark matter...possibly the largest we've seen yet? Or do they assume that it's not dark matter?

Perfectly correct. Yes. However, DM is now questioned to even exist along with Dark Energy. They are now trying to find if there is any new models to apply to unseen mass. Wild and confusing. They will not know until they have instruments to "see" it in the real, not conjecture.

Good questions,

Robert

 

[BrianH]

So let me see if I understand what you're saying...

This object cannot be seen, but the effects on the objects around it make it "obvious" that there is "something" there correct? And this object is affecting things around it in such a way that it is suggested that it must be 6 times larger than Jupiter? (I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to make sure I understand what's being stated here.)

It makes sense that there has to be some type of gravitation force from "something" that causes on other things. It wouldn't make much sense to assume that these other things are being affected by nothing. I wonder if this "object" is a giant mass of dark matter...possibly the largest we've seen yet? Or do they assume that it's not dark matter?

Perfectly correct. Yes. However, DM is now questioned to even exist along with Dark Energy. They are now trying to find if there is any new models to apply to unseen mass. Wild and confusing. They will not know until they have instruments to "see" it in the real, not conjecture.

Good questions,

Robert

You know, if this "thing" is proven to actually be an object...it will be one the greatest space discoveries IMO. This proves that there are so many things in our world that are left to be discvoered. I makes me wonder how much that isn't discovered even here on earth. Things we can't see. If this thing is clear then it may be a great discovery to see "what" makes it transluscent.

 

[DiveCon]

So let me see if I understand what you're saying...

This object cannot be seen, but the effects on the objects around it make it "obvious" that there is "something" there correct? And this object is affecting things around it in such a way that it is suggested that it must be 6 times larger than Jupiter? (I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to make sure I understand what's being stated here.)

It makes sense that there has to be some type of gravitation force from "something" that causes on other things. It wouldn't make much sense to assume that these other things are being affected by nothing. I wonder if this "object" is a giant mass of dark matter...possibly the largest we've seen yet? Or do they assume that it's not dark matter?

Perfectly correct. Yes. However, DM is now questioned to even exist along with Dark Energy. They are now trying to find if there is any new models to apply to unseen mass. Wild and confusing. They will not know until they have instruments to "see" it in the real, not conjecture.

Good questions,

Robert

You know, if this "thing" is proven to actually be an object...it will be one the greatest space discoveries IMO. This proves that there are so many things in our world that are left to be discvoered. I makes me wonder how much that isn't discovered even here on earth. Things we can't see. If this thing is clear then it may be a great discovery to see "what" makes it transluscent.

yes, the greatest, till the next one


btw, it might not be "translucent" we just might not have anything that can detect it, yet

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Both post of you fellas are correct. It is dark as it has no light source to shine outwards. They are called "Dark Jupiters" for no other description yet. Another words, they are huge like Jupiter, but never ignited as stars.

Hope that's helpful for clarification.

Robert

 

[BrianH]

Perfectly correct. Yes. However, DM is now questioned to even exist along with Dark Energy. They are now trying to find if there is any new models to apply to unseen mass. Wild and confusing. They will not know until they have instruments to "see" it in the real, not conjecture.

Good questions,

Robert

You know, if this "thing" is proven to actually be an object...it will be one the greatest space discoveries IMO. This proves that there are so many things in our world that are left to be discvoered. I makes me wonder how much that isn't discovered even here on earth. Things we can't see. If this thing is clear then it may be a great discovery to see "what" makes it transluscent.

yes, the greatest, till the next one


btw, it might not be "translucent" we just might not have anything that can detect it, yet

I guess my next question would be... Is it blocking out whatever is behind it? Or is it like dark matter and transluscent, but distorting things behind it?

 

[DiveCon]

You know, if this "thing" is proven to actually be an object...it will be one the greatest space discoveries IMO. This proves that there are so many things in our world that are left to be discvoered. I makes me wonder how much that isn't discovered even here on earth. Things we can't see. If this thing is clear then it may be a great discovery to see "what" makes it transluscent.

yes, the greatest, till the next one


btw, it might not be "translucent" we just might not have anything that can detect it, yet

I guess my next question would be... Is it blocking out whatever is behind it? Or is it like dark matter and transluscent, but distorting things behind it?

well, one of the ways they have detected something is when it passes in front of a star
that was posted either in this thread or one of the others

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I guess my next question would be... Is it blocking out whatever is behind it? Or is it like dark matter and transluscent, but distorting things behind it?

It is a mass about 6 times the size of jupiter, orbiting about 1.5LY out from our sun. It orbits every 23 million years around the sun and is at the outer limit of Sol's influence. This is the known postulate for Tyche, as of today. It remains to be proven and verified what this is, for certain.

Robert

 

[BrianH]

I guess my next question would be... Is it blocking out whatever is behind it? Or is it like dark matter and transluscent, but distorting things behind it?

It is a mass about 6 times the size of jupiter, orbiting about 1.5LY out from our sun. It orbits every 23 million years around the sun and is at the outer limit of Sol's influence. This is the known postulate for Tyche, as of today. It remains to be proven and verified what this is, for certain.

Robert

Is it blocking out things behind it? Or is it so hidden that they can even determine that?

 

[Robert_Stephens]

At this distance it has not even been seen. Just supposed by its behavior as known on other objects described. It is totally conjectured to be as described and I always hold off on any data until it is verified, on things like this.

Good query, however,

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I'm amazed of how much hoopla this news made yesterday and now nothing, other than Space Com and NASA.

Weird.

Astronomers Doubt Giant Planet 'Tyche' Exists in Our Solar System| Giant Planet Tyche Not Likely to Exist, Say Experts | Space.com

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

And notice everyone, and this is how it all goes, today they do NOT think it is there.......

I always wait on stuff like this as it is always a reach out into the dark until it is absolutely verified.

Bad deal, and frustrating. But, it lets you see the fallibility of discovery and its quest.

Robert

 

[Two Thumbs]

Here is the data on the large exo-solar body out past the Oort Cloud that some have been posting about as well myself about the dark jupiter. they are closer to finding enough data on this dark object to substantiate its definition. This has been a postulate for several years now but this is more compelling if they can resolve this mass.

Wonderful data. This too is the basis for Nibiru and other far fetched postulations.

Scientists, telescope hunt massive hidden object in space – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Robert

Very cool.

If it is officially found. Would it me a planet or called something else?

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Don't know, they say now it isn't there, today-- its a sham. Read that article above with the graphic.

Terral will love this.

Robert

 

[editec]

Any theory based on the notion that there is something "massive" in our solar system that we have as yet not discovered is completely preposterous.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Don't know, they say now it isn't there, today-- its a sham. Read that article above with the graphic.

Terral will love this.

Robert

Lame

That would have been interesting.

As far as Terral goes, we shouldn't hear from him for days. Since we were all supposed to die yesterday.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Don't know, they say now it isn't there, today-- its a sham. Read that article above with the graphic.

Terral will love this.

Robert

Lame

That would have been interesting.

As far as Terral goes, we shouldn't hear from him for days. Since we were all supposed to die yesterday.

No, that's March 15th when the poles shift and we all die.