Manhunt for "Oathkeeper"

[Luissa]

So when Obama starts forcing people into slave labor, building concentration camps, and revoking the citizenship of minority groups you can start bringing up Nuremberg... Until then, stop with the fear. I personally, don't want another far right wing nut job listening to this crap then deciding to bomb another building where I live.

 

[Luissa]

I don't see it that way at all.

It's easy to go with the flow.

It is much, much, MUCH more difficult to shake off training, peer pressure and fear of consequences.

The examples are as long as history itself.

Look to Nuremberg..."Yes, it was wrong but I was only following orders."

Any and all reinforcement of the personal conviction to do what's right in the face of orders to the contrary is important.

If the situation has deteriorated to the point that the government believes these orders a necessary, without the knowledge that their would be a revolt within the ranks, what would keep the government from simply ordering that those who disobey these orders will be summarily executed?

It is important that service members know without doubt that there will be others who have their back if this hypothetical scenario becomes a real world situation.

i find your lack of faith disturbing.

our servicemen and women don't need a fringe group looking for a fight to know that they can't do any of the things the oathkeeprs pledge not to do - and that others will stand with them against any such order.

honestly ask yourself - if i pledged every day to punch you in the nose if you said an ill word about my mother -even though you've never had any inclination to- how many days do you think it would take before i found a reason to interpret a comment in such a way that it left you with a bloody nose?

the oathkeepers are a group looking for a fight - and everyone should have enough life experience to know that if you go around with a chip on your shoulder you'll find a way to get it knocked off.

I am a veteran.

No offense, but your analogy is ridiculous.

The Oathkeepers aren't looking for a fight...they only reinforce a duty to uphold the Constitution.

Don't think it can happen here?

I present exhibit A...Hurricane Katrina Response.

Confiscation of firearms

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, National Guard troops, and US Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."



Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection.



A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[73][74]



Even National Guard troops, armed with assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.[75]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#cite_note-74

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_firearms

​

I'm sure our leftist opposition won't argue, as this happened under Bush. <grim emoticon>
​

IN the military don't you already take an oath to uphold the constitution?

 

[L.K.Eder]

hilarious hitler and nazi comparisons.

the ss had a special oath, too.

inspired by honour and stuff.

 

[Missourian]

How about if they go AWOL if they think the President wasn't born here? Is that part of the oath?

Deflection from the point, but of course the answer is no.

Obama is the president.



Nuremberg.

I also wonder if those same people would have helped the Japanese who were forced into camps?

I certainly hope not.

But that is the point exactly.

Understanding that this was a crime...it was an illegal order, no matter how logical it seemed at the time is exactly why this type of reinforcement is necessary.

What is the point of bringing up Nuremberg? Like I said fear mongering only makes things worse, spreads hates, and causes people to do stupid shit like bomb federal buildings.

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

​

 

[Missourian]

So when Obama starts forcing people into slave labor, building concentration camps, and revoking the citizenship of minority groups you can start bringing up Nuremberg... Until then, stop with the fear. I personally, don't want another far right wing nut job listening to this crap then deciding to bomb another building where I live.

Your partisanship forces your focus on Obama.

 

[Luissa]

Deflection from the point, but of course the answer is no.

Obama is the president.



Nuremberg.



I certainly hope not.

But that is the point exactly.

Understanding that this was a crime...it was an illegal order, no matter how logical it seemed at the time is exactly why this type of reinforcement is necessary.

What is the point of bringing up Nuremberg? Like I said fear mongering only makes things worse, spreads hates, and causes people to do stupid shit like bomb federal buildings.

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

​

Comparing that to Nuremberg is disrespecting the Jewish people who lived in Germany, and any innocent german who lived through it... LIke I said, stop spreading the hate.


And you might have a point if these Oathkeepers were actually helping groups that actually have their rights taken away by law enforcement daily, kind of like what the ACLU does.

Before anyone brings up Randy Weaver or any of that bullshit, comparing that to Nuremberg is also pretty ******* stupid..

 

[Missourian]

i find your lack of faith disturbing.

our servicemen and women don't need a fringe group looking for a fight to know that they can't do any of the things the oathkeeprs pledge not to do - and that others will stand with them against any such order.

honestly ask yourself - if i pledged every day to punch you in the nose if you said an ill word about my mother -even though you've never had any inclination to- how many days do you think it would take before i found a reason to interpret a comment in such a way that it left you with a bloody nose?

the oathkeepers are a group looking for a fight - and everyone should have enough life experience to know that if you go around with a chip on your shoulder you'll find a way to get it knocked off.

I am a veteran.

No offense, but your analogy is ridiculous.

The Oathkeepers aren't looking for a fight...they only reinforce a duty to uphold the Constitution.

Don't think it can happen here?

I present exhibit A...Hurricane Katrina Response.

Confiscation of firearms

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, National Guard troops, and US Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."



Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection.



A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[73][74]



Even National Guard troops, armed with assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.[75]

Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

I'm sure our leftist opposition won't argue, as this happened under Bush. <grim emoticon>
​

IN the military don't you already take an oath to uphold the constitution?

Yes, and they didn't...kinda makes you think it might require a little reinforcement...doesn't it?

 

[Luissa]

I want to know what happened in 2009 that prompted this group to be formed other than Obama being elected?

 

[L.K.Eder]

Deflection from the point, but of course the answer is no.

Obama is the president.



Nuremberg.



I certainly hope not.

But that is the point exactly.

Understanding that this was a crime...it was an illegal order, no matter how logical it seemed at the time is exactly why this type of reinforcement is necessary.

What is the point of bringing up Nuremberg? Like I said fear mongering only makes things worse, spreads hates, and causes people to do stupid shit like bomb federal buildings.

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

​

shut up.
nuremberg laws were about race.
nuremberg trials were about oaths and consequences of oaths.
nuremberg lebkuchen are delicious.
you are ridiculous.
and should slink away.
idiot influx redux

 

[Luissa]

And speaking of Rick Perry, if you are an oathkeeper how do you feel about him not pardoning a innocent man and letting him be put to death?

 

[Ravi]

What is the point of bringing up Nuremberg? Like I said fear mongering only makes things worse, spreads hates, and causes people to do stupid shit like bomb federal buildings.

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

​

shut up.
nuremberg laws were about race.
nuremberg trials were about oaths and consequences of oaths.
nuremberg lebkuchen are delicious.
you are ridiculous.
and should slink away.
idiot influx redux

Higher ups rescinded the idiot's orders to confiscate weapons. There is no evidence that any were confiscated and there is no police officer that was duty bound to obey that illegal order.

(The rest of the story).

 

[Missourian]

Comparing that to Nuremberg is disrespecting the Jewish people who lived in Germany, and any innocent german who lived through it... LIke I said, stop spreading the hate.

I can see you have no clue what you are talking about.

You need to have at least a little understand of the topic before you reply Luissa.

The Jewish victims of Nazi atrocities INSISTED on the Nuremberg trials...is was where nazi war criminals were BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

Please, pick up a history book, go to Wikipedia.

Talk about knee-jerk.

The defense the German war criminals invoked at Nuremberg time and time again was "We are not responsible, we were just following orders".

And you might have a point if these Oathkeepers were actually helping groups that actually have their rights taken away by law enforcement daily, kind of like what the ACLU does.

They are helping people by reinforcing the oath to protect the Constitution and not follow orders that deprive citizens of their rights.

Before anyone brings up Randy Weaver or any of that bullshit, comparing that to Nuremberg is also pretty ******* stupid..

Since you have already made evident your ignorance on the subject, I'll ignore this.

 

[Missourian]

What is the point of bringing up Nuremberg? Like I said fear mongering only makes things worse, spreads hates, and causes people to do stupid shit like bomb federal buildings.

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

shut up.
nuremberg laws were about race.
nuremberg trials were about oaths and consequences of oaths.
nuremberg lebkuchen are delicious.
you are ridiculous.
and should slink away.
idiot influx redux

Google translation into English - "L.K. Elker has nothing intelligent to contribute."

Thanks.

 

[Luissa]

Comparing that to Nuremberg is disrespecting the Jewish people who lived in Germany, and any innocent german who lived through it... LIke I said, stop spreading the hate.

I can see you have no clue what you are talking about.

You need to have at least a little understand of the topic before you reply Luissa.

The Jewish victims of Nazi atrocities INSISTED on the Nuremberg trials...is was where nazi war criminals were BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

Please, pick up a history book, go to Wikipedia.

Talk about knee-jerk.

The defense the German war criminals invoked at Nuremberg time and time again was "We are not responsible, we were just following orders".

And you might have a point if these Oathkeepers were actually helping groups that actually have their rights taken away by law enforcement daily, kind of like what the ACLU does.

They are helping people by reinforcing the oath to protect the Constitution and not follow orders that deprive citizens of their rights.

Before anyone brings up Randy Weaver or any of that bullshit, comparing that to Nuremberg is also pretty ******* stupid..

Since you have already made evident your ignorance on the subject, I'll ignore this.

Looks like you need to pick up a History book, idiot! Since you were talking about taking away citizen rights, I figured you were talking about the fact that Nazi's held propaganda rallies there, and is where they passed the law to take away the citizenship of Jews.
Google Nuremberg Rallies!!
Now tell me how the Nuremberg trials prove your point.

 

[Missourian]

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

shut up.
nuremberg laws were about race.
nuremberg trials were about oaths and consequences of oaths.
nuremberg lebkuchen are delicious.
you are ridiculous.
and should slink away.
idiot influx redux

Higher ups rescinded the idiot's orders to confiscate weapons. There is no evidence that any were confiscated and there is no police officer that was duty bound to obey that illegal order.

(The rest of the story).

Right...never happened. Just ignore it.

[youtube]kf8trl69kzo&NR=1[/youtube]

You are correct, they were not duty bound to follow that illegal order.

But they followed it anyway.

Sounds like the reinforcement of the duty to refuse an illegal order is required.


​

 

[Luissa]

Comparing that to Nuremberg is disrespecting the Jewish people who lived in Germany, and any innocent german who lived through it... LIke I said, stop spreading the hate.

I can see you have no clue what you are talking about.

You need to have at least a little understand of the topic before you reply Luissa.

The Jewish victims of Nazi atrocities INSISTED on the Nuremberg trials...is was where nazi war criminals were BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

Please, pick up a history book, go to Wikipedia.

Talk about knee-jerk.

The defense the German war criminals invoked at Nuremberg time and time again was "We are not responsible, we were just following orders".

And you might have a point if these Oathkeepers were actually helping groups that actually have their rights taken away by law enforcement daily, kind of like what the ACLU does.

They are helping people by reinforcing the oath to protect the Constitution and not follow orders that deprive citizens of their rights.

Before anyone brings up Randy Weaver or any of that bullshit, comparing that to Nuremberg is also pretty ******* stupid..

Since you have already made evident your ignorance on the subject, I'll ignore this.

Not my fault you should have used the Nuremberg rallies to prove your point, rather than the Nuremberg Trials.

 

[Luissa]

You could have also sited that Nuremberg was the site of a concentration camp... LOL

 

[ogibillm]

Because it has already happened here. See above...illegal search and seizures, illegal confiscation of firearms...violating Constitutional rights...but they were just following orders.

Nuremberg redux.

​

shut up.
nuremberg laws were about race.
nuremberg trials were about oaths and consequences of oaths.
nuremberg lebkuchen are delicious.
you are ridiculous.
and should slink away.
idiot influx redux

Higher ups rescinded the idiot's orders to confiscate weapons. There is no evidence that any were confiscated and there is no police officer that was duty bound to obey that illegal order.

(The rest of the story).

ta. da.

that someone somewhere might make a mistake and issue such an order is not crazy.

that it would become a problem is.

 

[Missourian]

You could have also sited that Nuremberg was the site of a concentration camp... LOL

I figured "I was just following orders" was a dead giveaway to exactly what I was referring to.

That is what the Nuremberg trials are best known for, eliminating "Just following orders" as a defense for committing a crime.

 

[Luissa]

Comparing that to Nuremberg is disrespecting the Jewish people who lived in Germany, and any innocent german who lived through it... LIke I said, stop spreading the hate.

I can see you have no clue what you are talking about.

You need to have at least a little understand of the topic before you reply Luissa.

The Jewish victims of Nazi atrocities INSISTED on the Nuremberg trials...is was where nazi war criminals were BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

Please, pick up a history book, go to Wikipedia.

Talk about knee-jerk.

The defense the German war criminals invoked at Nuremberg time and time again was "We are not responsible, we were just following orders".

And you might have a point if these Oathkeepers were actually helping groups that actually have their rights taken away by law enforcement daily, kind of like what the ACLU does.

They are helping people by reinforcing the oath to protect the Constitution and not follow orders that deprive citizens of their rights.

Before anyone brings up Randy Weaver or any of that bullshit, comparing that to Nuremberg is also pretty ******* stupid..

Since you have already made evident your ignorance on the subject, I'll ignore this.

And I wonder why they insisted on them being brought to justice, and in Nuremberg? Could it because that is where they voted to have their rights taken away?