Man who Burned a Quran Fired from Transit Job... I smell... LAWSUIT!

[Si modo]

There is a curious irony to this debate, if I am free to be an a_hole, why does my employer have to tolerate me? Having worked in corporate America a long time, be aware that your freedom may extend to the door being shown you and not in a good way.

"The answer is a pretty clear "yes" in the majority of circumstances. Because most states have "at will" employment laws, getting fired for online behavior of almost any sort is probably legal, with a few possible exceptions. To be more blunt about it, an employee probably doesn't even have to write negatively about their employer (or consort with criminals) in order to be fired. The noteworthy exceptions primarily involve an employee's: 1) union activicties; 2) pre-existing employment contracts or workplace policies; and 3) whistleblowing or protected activities."

FindLaw's Common Law: Legal Topic: Employee Rights

Poor Midcan. If one reads the entire link, one notices that the examples of those fired all represented themselves as employees of those organizations from which they were fired.

 

[ConHog]

I doubt the at will clause applies here since most government employees are contracted employees meaning of course that there are clauses in said contract. I would like to see the NJTA employment contract.

 

[Ravi]

Is he covered by the union. If not, he hasn't a prayer.

If the Company employs me, I agree to conform to the rules and regulations of the Company. Iunderstand that if I am employed in a position not covered by a labor agreement, my employment will be "at will", and that myemployment can be terminated at any time, with or without cause and with or without advance notice, by either the Company or myself.

New Jersey Transit

 

[Dick Tuck]

I doubt the at will clause applies here since most government employees are contracted employees meaning of course that there are clauses in said contract. I would like to see the NJTA employment contract.

So you don't think it's insane that a train ticket puncher, and makes a very reasonable living at it, and is paid by the STATE for putting little holes in train tickets, is an asshat for proclaiming to be an affiliate of an anti-STATE organization?

 

[Gremlin]

According to the NJT Employment application they do have 'non-agreement' positions:

If the Company employs me, I agree to conform to the rules and regulations of the Company. I
understand that if I am employed in a position not covered by a labor agreement, my employment will be "at will", and that my
employment can be terminated at any time, with or without cause and with or without advance notice, by either the Company or myself.

Just not sure what sort of job "assistant train-consist coordinator" is

 

[Trajan]

Easy

If you do something in your off hours that makes the company look bad ...your FIRED

uhm no that won't do.

can you be specific please?

Like, oh lets say you employ me and i go to a strip club and get thrown out? and you find out about it?

Or, I am involved with the local PTA and am very negatively verbal about the school administration?

Or I fall behind in my property taxes and my name is printed in the local paper....?

Like, oh lets say you employ me and i go to a strip club and get thrown out? and you find out about it?

If you are employed by a church, then yes...you probably get fired
If not, probably nobody cares

Or, I am involved with the local PTA and am very negatively verbal about the school administration?

If you are employed by the school, there is a good chance you could get fired, depending on what you said. If you collect garbage...I don't think anyone cares

Or I fall behind in my property taxes and my name is printed in the local paper

Again, it depends on the context of your employment. If you work for the town in question and are behind in your property taxes you could be fired

Oh so now you are making an integrity argument...that is the integrity of your employer is delineated as to your off hours conduct ...by what? written rules? Osmosis?

Okay I'll play- so what does a religious protest have to do with driving a train or repairing NJ buses? What if he belonged to that whack jobs church and they had burned the koran and he was in a widely disseminated photograph of the event?

Your position is his employer has a legal right to fire him?

You just cannot make up conduct rules by fiat..........this will go to trial, the transit auth. will have to show how their business is effected by this mans actions and even then.......

authority and regulation as to such has to be enumerated, not made up on the spot. its in the bill of rights or something.....and where there are differences of opinion, court.

 

[Trajan]

Is he covered by the union. If not, he hasn't a prayer.

If the Company employs me, I agree to conform to the rules and regulations of the Company. Iunderstand that if I am employed in a position not covered by a labor agreement, my employment will be "at will", and that myemployment can be terminated at any time, with or without cause and with or without advance notice, by either the Company or myself.

New Jersey Transit

good catch.


I beg to differ though, in that a court will decide if his termination is legal if his is truly the reason he was terminated.

I am sure he'll ask them to show cause of some sort even if they say they are not required to based on the timeliness, photo in the paper, fired.

Was he a bad employee etc etc.?

I agree though, it may be problematic; a judge is going to have to allow that line of inquiry or you're right, he hasn't a prayer.

 

[Dick Tuck]

According to the NJT Employment application they do have 'non-agreement' positions:

If the Company employs me, I agree to conform to the rules and regulations of the Company. I
understand that if I am employed in a position not covered by a labor agreement, my employment will be "at will", and that my
employment can be terminated at any time, with or without cause and with or without advance notice, by either the Company or myself.

Just not sure what sort of job "assistant train-consist coordinator" is

Good find. Although the wingnuts see employment as a private contract, I'm sure they'll twist in their paths to deny that fact. Personally, I think the ACLU is right for jumping into this, and think they have a mediocre case, but should pursue it. Even thought this asshat is sucking on the State teat, while claiming enrollment in an anti-statist organization, and suing the State for exercising a contract clause this ticket puncher agreed to, I think he has every right to be a public douche bag.

 

[rightwinger]

uhm no that won't do.

can you be specific please?

Like, oh lets say you employ me and i go to a strip club and get thrown out? and you find out about it?

Or, I am involved with the local PTA and am very negatively verbal about the school administration?

Or I fall behind in my property taxes and my name is printed in the local paper....?

Like, oh lets say you employ me and i go to a strip club and get thrown out? and you find out about it?

If you are employed by a church, then yes...you probably get fired
If not, probably nobody cares

Or, I am involved with the local PTA and am very negatively verbal about the school administration?

If you are employed by the school, there is a good chance you could get fired, depending on what you said. If you collect garbage...I don't think anyone cares

Or I fall behind in my property taxes and my name is printed in the local paper

Again, it depends on the context of your employment. If you work for the town in question and are behind in your property taxes you could be fired

Oh so now you are making an integrity argument...that is the integrity of your employer is delineated as to your off hours conduct ...by what? written rules? Osmosis?

Okay I'll play- so what does a religious protest have to do with driving a train or repairing NJ buses? What if he belonged to that whack jobs church and they had burned the koran and he was in a widely disseminated photograph of the event?

Your position is his employer has a legal right to fire him?

You just cannot make up conduct rules by fiat..........this will go to trial, the transit auth. will have to show how their business is effected by this mans actions and even then.......

authority and regulation as to such has to be enumerated, not made up on the spot. its in the bill of rights or something.....and where there are differences of opinion, court.

No...basically, I am making a your employer can fire you any time he wants, for any type of reason type of of argument. At will employment

Merely deliniating specific cases an employer may choose to fire you

 

[ConHog]

Ok, here is the code of ethics that they claim he violated, let us see.

New Jersey Transit

I don't see a violation here.

 

[mal]

Department of Labor and Workforce Development | Wage and Hour Compliance FAQs

Q. Does my employer have to give me notice when he/she fires me? Do I have to give notice when I quit?

A. No. Notice is not required by either party based on the fact that New Jersey is an "employment at will" state, meaning that an employer or employee may terminate the relationship at any time, without a reason, without cause.

The ACLU Knows this... And will Sue anyway.

A Court will Decide, not your Links.



peace...

 

[PixieStix]

If you burn the flag you cannot be prosecuted. If you burn the flag and the front page of the newspaper says "Here is John Smith who is employed by so and so burning the flag" you can be fired

If you do something in your private life that puts your employer in a bad light...you can be fired for it

Does that include eating too much and getting fat, if you work for a health food store?

Or do you have to conform and eat health food?

 

[ConHog]

It seems to me that the application he signed that stated that he could be fired without warning for violating the code of ethics means that he could not be fired without warning for any other reason, and in fact his bosses even say he violated the code of ethics. So I would say that the issue rests SOLELY on did he violate the code of ethics? It appears to me that he did not.

 

[del]

Ok, here is the code of ethics that they claim he violated, let us see.

New Jersey Transit

I don't see a violation here.

he's an employee, not a vendor

 

[ConHog]

Ok, here is the code of ethics that they claim he violated, let us see.

New Jersey Transit

I don't see a violation here.

he's an employee, not a vendor

which is exactly why I don't see a violation. Unless there is another code of ethics for employees that I'm missing. I'm p
retty good with the Google and I haven't found one. The only code of ethics I see is one that controls the employee/vendor relation.

 

[Trajan]

No...basically, I am making a your employer can fire you any time he wants, for any type of reason type of of argument. At will employment

Merely deliniating specific cases an employer may choose to fire you

okay so you're not making a judgment it appears.

do you think he should have been fired?

 

[Trajan]

As a general note;

call me a cynic but; if a protest by Muslims resulted in one of them burning a bible and he/she was fired from a county, state, fed. job with the same stipulations ravi posted above, I suspect we’d be hearing a great deal more about 1st amend. rights and what a travesty the firing is and that the employer is punishing them for a display of free speech and that this is just another example of a anit-muslim bias......am I wrong?

 

[ConHog]

As a general note;

call me a cynic but; if a protest by Muslims resulted in one of them burning a bible and he/she was fired from a county, state, fed. job with the same stipulations ravi posted above, I suspect we’d be hearing a great deal more about 1st amend. rights and what a travesty the firing is and that the employer is punishing them for a display of free speech and that this is just another example of a anit-muslim bias......am I wrong?

You are not wrong. Ravi would be the first one on here defending the Muslim.

 

[Ravi]

As a general note;

call me a cynic but; if a protest by Muslims resulted in one of them burning a bible and he/she was fired from a county, state, fed. job with the same stipulations ravi posted above, I suspect we’d be hearing a great deal more about 1st amend. rights and what a travesty the firing is and that the employer is punishing them for a display of free speech and that this is just another example of a anit-muslim bias......am I wrong?

Yes...as a matter of fact, you are wrong. I would personally fire anyone that burned any sacred text if they were in my employ. I cannot afford to lose business.

 

[ConHog]

As a general note;

call me a cynic but; if a protest by Muslims resulted in one of them burning a bible and he/she was fired from a county, state, fed. job with the same stipulations ravi posted above, I suspect we’d be hearing a great deal more about 1st amend. rights and what a travesty the firing is and that the employer is punishing them for a display of free speech and that this is just another example of a anit-muslim bias......am I wrong?

Yes...as a matter of fact, you are wrong. I would personally fire anyone that burned any sacred text if they were in my employ. I cannot afford to lose business.

You are lying. There is not a single person here who doesn't believe that if a Muslim burned the Bible and was fired that you would be defending him.

And I personally don't believe that your arguments have anything to do with real life, so I find it completely possible that you would defend a man on here who in real life you would fire.