Ray From Cleveland
Diamond Member
- Aug 16, 2015
- 97,215
- 37,440
- 2,290
Another person who is completely wrong about everything.
Most murders happen because someone wants someone else dead. Most murders, by far, are committed by criminals with long records for whom it was already illegal for them to have a gun but, surprisingly, when planning to break the law to commit murder, they don't care about the law. Most murders are black-on-black gang-related murders. Did you know that black women are murdered at twice the rate that are white women?
Gun murders are absolutely a product of the availability of guns. Knife murders are a product of unavailability of guns while knives were available. Choking murders are a product of the unavailability of guns and knives but the availability of hands.
Most crime-of-passion murders against women are not committed with guns; women are beaten or strangled. To get the gun takes at least some bit of planning.
Except none of that is true. Most murders in the US are committed with guns.
The US had 18,319 homicides in 2019. Of those, 14,839 were committed with guns.
Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control
Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United States, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and developmentwww.gunpolicy.org
As for "gang related" murders, that's simply not true, either. According to the National Gang Center, between 2008 and 2012, the number of "Gang related" murders was between 1659 and 2363. In short, only a fraction of all homicides committed.
National Youth Gang Survey Analysis: Measuring the Extent of Gang Problems
The NGC conducted an annual survey of law enforcement agencies to assess the extent of gang problems. This page shows data measuring the extent of gang problems.nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov
You're completely wrong about most murders. Most murders are gang-related murders where people don't really know each other more than superficially.
Simply not true. 32% of homicides in the US are family members. 51% victims are known to the killer. Only 5% are people being killed by complete strangers. (Another 12% are unknown, because they don't know who killed the person.)
View attachment 501971
Except, again, this isn't true. Going back to the above Gun Policy.org figures.Women are routinely beaten to death by the men, or women, in their lives. Banning guns does nothing to reduce crime; it may reduce some gun crime but then the crimes will simply be crimes instead of gun crimes.
Japan completely bans guns. They had 334 homicides a year with only ONE of those involving a gun.
Guns in Japan — Firearms, gun law and gun control
Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Japan, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and developmentwww.gunpolicy.org
The United Kingdom mostly banned guns. They had 809 homicides with only 32 of those being committed with guns.
Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control
Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in United Kingdom, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and developmentwww.gunpolicy.org
Let's use the closest analog to the US, Canada. Canada allows some gun ownership, but it's not considered a right and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a gun.
They had 651 homicides with only 249 of those committed with guns.
Guns in Canada — Firearms, gun law and gun control
Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Canada, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and developmentwww.gunpolicy.org
As the Onion put it...
View attachment 501972
The difference in murder rates has far more to do with gang violence and drug laws, and even culture, than it does with guns.
Naw, buddy, it's the guns. Culturally, Canada isn't really that different from us. They have gangs, they have poverty, they don't have that many guns and they don't have that many murders.
Now, if you want to make the argument that because the US doesn't deal well with other factors like racism, poverty, addiction and mental illness, you might have a point. We have a shitty record on those things. Our priorities are fucked up. It's what you can expect when a country lets a guy like Trump become President.
But the fact is, the US is the only G-7 country that allows this kind of gun policy, and we get exactly the expected result. If you let a mentally ill, addicted or poor person have easy access to a gun, you are going to get exactly these kinds of results.
Except all your statistics ignore one important thing: Race.
People in Japan kill less people because they don't have guns? Japanese Americans pretty much the same in our country. Why are mostly or all white suburbs virtually gun crime free? We have access to all kinds of guns.
53% of all US murders are committed by a group that's 7% of our population--black males. Second in line are Hispanic males.
The citizens in Sweden always had guns. No problems. They were the second most safest country in the world. Today it's the most violent country in Europe. So what changed, did they get more guns? No. What changed is they allowed middle-east refugies into their country. Are we going to learn any lessons from Sweden and like places? Not if Democrats are in charge.