Man found shot to death in his car...but...where did the gun come from?

[2aguy]

Britain banned and confiscated guns, ushering in an era of 0 gun violence.....er....or not.......

Murder probe launched after passer-by finds man shot dead in parked car | Metro News

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Britain banned and confiscated guns, ushering in an era of 0 gun violence.....er....or not.......

Murder probe launched after passer-by finds man shot dead in parked car | Metro News

Same place all the other firearms came from...

The Gun Fairy!

When you lose a bullet in Merry ol'London the Gun Fairy brings a new gun while you sleep...

( Yes, but in my defense I am insane and just wanted to have another answer than the actual fact black market is the answer... )

 

[Vagabond63]

Britain banned and confiscated guns, ushering in an era of 0 gun violence.....er....or not.......

Murder probe launched after passer-by finds man shot dead in parked car | Metro News

Thanks for making the anti-gunners case for them. Shotguns haven't been banned in the UK; they are widespread and can be stolen or bought legally and used for illegal purposes

 

[2aguy]

Britain banned and confiscated guns, ushering in an era of 0 gun violence.....er....or not.......

Murder probe launched after passer-by finds man shot dead in parked car | Metro News

Thanks for making the anti-gunners case for them. Shotguns haven't been banned in the UK; they are widespread and can be stolen or bought legally and used for illegal purposes

Hmmmm....and yet those aren't the guns being smuggled into the country...at rates the British police say they can't stop.

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

 

[Vagabond63]

... and as if on cue, we get another regurgitated cut and paste that has nothing to do with the OP and is a pathetic attempt to deflect from the failure of the OP's pursuit of an NRA aganda. Name one country in the world that has a 100% sucess rate preventing smuggling of any kind. Back to the OP, shotguns are legally available in the UK which makes them easier to obtain or be used for criminal purposes.

 

[2aguy]

... and as if on cue, we get another regurgitated cut and paste that has nothing to do with the OP and is a pathetic attempt to deflect from the failure of the OP's pursuit of an NRA aganda. Name one country in the world that has a 100% sucess rate preventing smuggling of any kind. Back to the OP, shotguns are legally available in the UK which makes them easier to obtain or be used for criminal purposes.

Don't need to....just need to show that the gun crime rate in Britain has nothing to do with it's gun control laws......since Britain had a low gun murder rate when guns were allowed, and now has the same low gun murder rate after they banned and confiscated guns...showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their already low gun murder rate.

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.....can't explain that fact, or the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns over the last 26 years, our gun murder rate dropped 49%....our rate fell while yours stayed the same......and our gun crime rate dropped 75%....you can't explain that with your theory.........so, using science, that means your theory is wrong....

 

[Vagabond63]

Don't need to....just need to show that the gun crime rate in Britain has nothing to do with it's gun control laws......since Britain had a low gun murder rate when guns were allowed, and now has the same low gun murder rate after they banned and confiscated guns...showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their already low gun murder rate.

Except that you are missing the whole point behind UK firearms legislation. Hopefully this article will enlighten you,
"“Perhaps not necessarily at first,” he says. “In fact, for the next four years gun crime continued to increase, by about 105 per cent over that period.”

But that doesn’t mean it was a failure. The reason gun crime continued to rise was because the definition was too wide-ranging; it included everything and anything, every single report where a victim reported that a gun was used, even if that gun was never fired, even if it was a replica, or a fake, or even a toy. So by 2003, the laws were refined.

The use of air weapons and pellet guns, which made up a large number of gun crime complaints, was taken out of the Firearms Act and put under the auspices of the new Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003, which meant gun crime figures purely under their Firearms Act definition began to decrease markedly thanks to reclassification taking air weapons out of the equation.

Squires says: “In fact, gun crime began to decrease for about 10 or 12 years after that, and it’s only in the last two years that we’ve seen it start to creep up again.”

Firearms Act: Twenty years on, has it made a difference?

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.....can't explain that fact, or the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns over the last 26 years, our gun murder rate dropped 49%....our rate fell while yours stayed the same......and our gun crime rate dropped 75%....you can't explain that with your theory.........so, using science, that means your theory is wrong....

I have, several times, but you just keep ignoring it and just regurgitate the same NRA BS. Here's the link AGAIN, What Caused the Crime Decline? The report comes to several possible reasons or a combination of several reasons, but what is marked is the fact that private gun ownership had no discernable effect.

 

[Vagabond63]

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.

Oh, and it's not my theory, I think you have me confused with someone else. My contention is that our firearms legislation stopped more mass shootings. How many mass shootings have occurred in the US since 1997 compared with the UK? Our gun control legislation works.

 

[2aguy]

Don't need to....just need to show that the gun crime rate in Britain has nothing to do with it's gun control laws......since Britain had a low gun murder rate when guns were allowed, and now has the same low gun murder rate after they banned and confiscated guns...showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their already low gun murder rate.

Except that you are missing the whole point behind UK firearms legislation. Hopefully this article will enlighten you,
"“Perhaps not necessarily at first,” he says. “In fact, for the next four years gun crime continued to increase, by about 105 per cent over that period.”

But that doesn’t mean it was a failure. The reason gun crime continued to rise was because the definition was too wide-ranging; it included everything and anything, every single report where a victim reported that a gun was used, even if that gun was never fired, even if it was a replica, or a fake, or even a toy. So by 2003, the laws were refined.

The use of air weapons and pellet guns, which made up a large number of gun crime complaints, was taken out of the Firearms Act and put under the auspices of the new Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003, which meant gun crime figures purely under their Firearms Act definition began to decrease markedly thanks to reclassification taking air weapons out of the equation.

Squires says: “In fact, gun crime began to decrease for about 10 or 12 years after that, and it’s only in the last two years that we’ve seen it start to creep up again.”

Firearms Act: Twenty years on, has it made a difference?

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.....can't explain that fact, or the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns over the last 26 years, our gun murder rate dropped 49%....our rate fell while yours stayed the same......and our gun crime rate dropped 75%....you can't explain that with your theory.........so, using science, that means your theory is wrong....

I have, several times, but you just keep ignoring it and just regurgitate the same NRA BS. Here's the link AGAIN, What Caused the Crime Decline? The report comes to several possible reasons or a combination of several reasons, but what is marked is the fact that private gun ownership had no discernable effect.

And you don't understand the issue.......

Regardless of whether private ownership helped reduce crime....the major point, the point you are desparately trying to ignore....

As more Americans went out, bought, owned and carried guns.........the gun crime rate did not go up......

Let me repeat....

As more Americans went out, bought, owned and carried guns....the gun crime rate did not go up...

It went down.....which means gun ownership among law abiding people does not increase the gun crime rate....as even Britain showed by the fact that when you were allowed to own guns, your gun murder rate was low......

So again...try to understand what exactly happened....

And as to people owning guns helping to lower the crime rate...

1) It helps for the victim who has a gun....it stops the rape, robbery or murder for that victim.....in America this happens 1.1 million times a year according to our Centers for Disease Control.....or 1.5 million times a year according to our Department of Justice Research...both government agencies that are anti-gun......

2) Actual research showing that armed citizens help reduce the crime rate...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness*




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: cemood@wm.edu Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

 

[2aguy]

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.

Oh, and it's not my theory, I think you have me confused with someone else. My contention is that our firearms legislation stopped more mass shootings. How many mass shootings have occurred in the US since 1997 compared with the UK? Our gun control legislation works.

You didn't have mass shootings in the first place....and the last 5 mass shooters were not stopped by your gun control laws but by dumb luck....one shooter changed his mind, the other one posted his attack on line before he executed it, so gun control did nothing to stop mass public shootings in Britain...in particular, since criminals have access to all the guns they want...

And again....the British police have stated they can't control the increasing......increasing.....number of illegal guns flooding Britain...

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

 

[2aguy]

And you, like tommy, can't explain how your theory.......more guns = more gun crime.

Oh, and it's not my theory, I think you have me confused with someone else. My contention is that our firearms legislation stopped more mass shootings. How many mass shootings have occurred in the US since 1997 compared with the UK? Our gun control legislation works.

You averaged about one mass public shooting every 10 years......you almost had 4.....and the other two stories show that gun control didn't stop the gunmen from murdering people, they just didn't decide to when they were in the public place with a gun.


The last story in this post shows that if someone wants to shoot lots of people in Britain, they are fully able to do it....

5/4/18 2 boys planning attack, steal girlfriend's dad's guns

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------



.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the updat, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?


-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'


15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.

=======




'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.







Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester



Ten people, including two children, were taken to hospital after a shooting at a street party in the Moss Side area of Manchester.


Armed police officers rushed to the scene on a residential street at 2.30am on Sunday, where a party was being held following a Caribbean Carnival at a nearby park.