Man blocks black delivery driver in Oklahoma neighborhood

[Polishprince]

Why would you think Miller should respond to them?

Because he just wasn't representing himself, he was also representing his employer whose truck he was driving.

Causing a big fuss, and trying to cause a conflict with the leader of the HOA is no way to make friends and future sales in the highly competitive furniture business.

 

[Levant]

Beyond that, is there something else I need to know?

Since you asked ...my wife and my kids are black.

I'm not FROM Missouri...I'm from Tacoma Park Maryland.

How sad for them, to be under the thumb of a racist. But you didn't say what race you are and I didn't ask what race your wife and kids are.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Table 43A

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

��

	Total arrests	Percent distribution1	Total arrests	Percent distribution1
Race	Ethnicity
Offense charged	Total	White	Black or African American	American Indian or Alaska Native	Asian	Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander	Total	White	Black or African American	American Indian or Alaska Native	Asian	Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander	Total2	Hispanic or Latino	Not Hispanic or Latino	Total	Hispanic or Latino	Not Hispanic or Latino
TOTAL	7,710,900	5,319,654	2,115,381	164,430	92,737	18,698	100.0	69.0	27.4	2.1	1.2	0.2	6,343,684	1,191,334	5,152,350	100.0	18.8	81.2
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter	8,957	3,953	4,778	105	94	27	100.0	44.1	53.3	1.2	1.0	0.3	7,050	1,472	5,578	100.0	20.9	79.1
Rape3	18,776	12,794	5,376	267	289	50	100.0	68.1	28.6	1.4	1.5	0.3	15,316	4,090	11,226	100.0	26.7	73.3
Robbery	66,789	29,025	36,187	676	641	260	100.0	43.5	54.2	1.0	1.0	0.4	57,048	12,823	44,225	100.0	22.5	77.5
Aggravated assault	298,040	184,527	100,393	6,736	5,078	1,306	100.0	61.9	33.7	2.3	1.7	0.4	254,614	65,056	189,558	100.0	25.6	74.4
Burglary	134,542	91,581	39,617	1,590	1,422	332	100.0	68.1	29.4	1.2	1.1	0.2	114,027	23,200	90,827	100.0	20.3	79.7
Larceny-theft	669,983	448,193	201,086	11,987	7,324	1,393	100.0	66.9	30.0	1.8	1.1	0.2	540,174	78,106	462,068	100.0	14.5	85.5
Motor vehicle theft	69,002	44,512	22,305	1,151	818	216	100.0	64.5	32.3	1.7	1.2	0.3	56,263	14,392	41,871	100.0	25.6	74.4
Arson	6,946	4,938	1,740	137	101	30	100.0	71.1	25.1	2.0	1.5	0.4	5,790	1,055	4,735	100.0	18.2	81.8
Violent crime4	392,562	230,299	146,734	7,784	6,102	1,643	100.0	58.7	37.4	2.0	1.6	0.4	334,028	83,441	250,587	100.0	25.0	75.0
Property crime4	880,473	589,224	264,748	14,865	9,665	1,971	100.0	66.9	30.1	1.7	1.1	0.2	716,254	116,753	599,501	100.0	16.3	83.7
Other assaults	794,787	512,025	254,360	15,711	10,348	2,343	100.0	64.4	32.0	2.0	1.3	0.3	654,150	125,007	529,143	100.0	19.1	80.9
Forgery and counterfeiting	37,724	25,140	11,637	335	548	64	100.0	66.6	30.8	0.9	1.5	0.2	31,565	5,301	26,264	100.0	16.8	83.2
Fraud	89,610	58,572	28,387	1,419	1,088	144	100.0	65.4	31.7	1.6	1.2	0.2	74,521	9,636	64,885	100.0	12.9	87.1
Embezzlement	11,174	6,923	3,955	122	159	15	100.0	62.0	35.4	1.1	1.4	0.1	9,252	1,193	8,059	100.0	12.9	87.1
Stolen property; buying, receiving, possessing	69,874	44,179	23,661	881	819	334	100.0	63.2	33.9	1.3	1.2	0.5	57,379	11,278	46,101	100.0	19.7	80.3
Vandalism	134,794	91,176	38,887	2,949	1,552	230	100.0	67.6	28.8	2.2	1.2	0.2	112,716	21,479	91,237	100.0	19.1	80.9
Weapons; carrying, possessing, etc.	126,332	68,756	54,715	1,094	1,390	377	100.0	54.4	43.3	0.9	1.1	0.3	100,312	23,663	76,649	100.0	23.6	76.4
Prostitution and commercialized vice	23,502	12,928	9,109	95	1,309	61	100.0	55.0	38.8	0.4	5.6	0.3	21,484	4,379	17,105	100.0	20.4	79.6
Sex offenses (except rape and prostitution)	35,157	25,338	8,403	587	751	78	100.0	72.1	23.9	1.7	2.1	0.2	28,928	7,398	21,530	100.0	25.6	74.4
Drug abuse violations	1,234,178	871,295	333,113	14,148	13,345	2,277	100.0	70.6	27.0	1.1	1.1	0.2	1,044,789	211,692	833,097	100.0	20.3	79.7
Gambling	2,465	1,000	1,198	11	205	51	100.0	40.6	48.6	0.4	8.3	2.1	1,390	341	1,049	100.0	24.5	75.5
Offenses against the family and children	64,357	43,371	18,530	1,895	510	51	100.0	67.4	28.8	2.9	0.8	0.1	51,589	5,999	45,590	100.0	11.6	88.4
Driving under the influence	736,644	597,919	108,703	13,150	14,323	2,549	100.0	81.2	14.8	1.8	1.9	0.3	604,136	147,221	456,915	100.0	24.4	75.6
Liquor laws	128,453	100,687	18,743	6,973	1,876	174	100.0	78.4	14.6	5.4	1.5	0.1	102,624	15,979	86,645	100.0	15.6	84.4
Drunkenness	251,490	193,042	37,781	17,412	2,825	430	100.0	76.8	15.0	6.9	1.1	0.2	233,325	52,491	180,834	100.0	22.5	77.5
Disorderly conduct	248,716	158,533	78,192	9,770	1,926	295	100.0	63.7	31.4	3.9	0.8	0.1	186,261	24,553	161,708	100.0	13.2	86.8
Vagrancy	18,048	12,823	4,458	482	261	24	100.0	71.0	24.7	2.7	1.4	0.1	16,649	2,557	14,092	100.0	15.4	84.6
All other offenses (except traffic)	2,413,408	1,666,825	663,086	54,410	23,550	5,537	100.0	69.1	27.5	2.3	1.0	0.2	1,947,281	317,928	1,629,353	100.0	16.3	83.7
Suspicion	432	237	129	65	1	0	100.0	54.9	29.9	15.0	0.2	0.0	390	15	375	100.0	3.8	96.2
Curfew and loitering law violations	16,720	9,362	6,852	272	184	50	100.0	56.0	41.0	1.6	1.1	0.3

Hey Toby...what are the per capita numbers?

 

[Levant]

Why would you think Miller should respond to them?

Because he just wasn't representing himself, he was also representing his employer whose truck he was driving.

Causing a big fuss, and trying to cause a conflict with the leader of the HOA is no way to make friends and future sales in the highly competitive furniture business.

Once again, did Stewart have a "leader-of-the-HOA" badge? Or official car? Uniform? No; he was just one more vigilante asshole. I wouldn't have responded to him.

 

[Missourian]

Beyond that, is there something else I need to know?

Since you asked ...my wife and my kids are black.

I'm not FROM Missouri...I'm from Tacoma Park Maryland.

How sad for them, to be under the thumb of a racist. But you didn't say what race you are and I didn't ask what race your wife and kids are.

You asked if there was anything else you needed to know...and I told you what else you needed to know.

 

[Missourian]

How sad for them, to be under the thumb of a racist.

Have you heard the expression that to a hammer everything looks like a nail?

Since every issue you see is race related...anyone who disagrees must be a racist. Shed your blinders. See again.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Another one to file under "working while black"....
Man blocks black delivery driver in an Oklahoma neighborhood

Just typical HOA Nazis thinking they can police the world.

When I drove delivery for a local paint company, I got stopped by HOA folks all the time down in the Potomac area. I just cooperated with them, gave them the info that they thought they needed and was off to do the delivery.

Why did the driver not tell them who the delivery was for?

I had a guy out to my house to detail my cars and my motorcycles. He got there about 7:30am, set up his pop-up awning and went to work.

About three hours later he's knocking on my door, telling me that someone came by and told him he couldn't do that there. I walked outside and saw the president of our HOA walking away. I called to him, and he walked back, running his mouth about how the guy couldn't be working on cars in my driveway. The bylaw actually states there's to be no mechanical work performed. I told him if he can't be bothered to know what the rules actually say, then he should stay away from homeowners until he does. I also told him to stop hassling the guy taking care of my cars.

Presidents of HOA's are nothing, and the guy in Oklahoma wasn't even that...

 

[August West]

no where near as bad as blacks MURDERING whites

Most white murder victims are murdered by whites. Most black murder victims are murdered by blacks. Your point?

hahahhahahah WRONG
blacks only 13% of the population...whites over 4 times that with 66%--yet:
white on black murders 229
black on white murders 500
!!!! booooom baby
undeniably blacks murder whites at a much, much higher rate

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

ucr.fbi.gov

I said that most white murder victims are killed by whites and most black victims are killed by blacks. This really shouldn`t be hard.

 

[Andylusion]

“All we want to know is why you’re in here and who gave you the gate code,” the second homeowner said. “That’s all we need to know.”

That is a perfectly legitimate question, and here was his reply.....

Miller responded, “It’s none of your business. I’m going out, that’s where I’m going.”

Why would you think Miller should respond to them? Did Stewart have a badge? An official HOA vehicle or uniform? Miller had a company truck with a company uniform and Stewart wasn't supposed to accept that as evidence to back up Miller's story about why he was there yet Stewart had nothing except his word and Miller was supposed to accept just that alone? You're a ******* hypocrite and a racist if you think Miller should have just accepted Stewart because, afterall, Stewart was the white guy.

Again... grow up. Why not answer the question?

Instead of sitting around "I don't have to answer anyone!"... how about.... answer the questions, and go about your life without needlessly causing drama?

You needlessly cause drama, and want to whine and cry that your life is filled with drama.

Stop. Stop being a prick. If someone asks you a question, what is it to you, to answer the question?

Got your nose stuck so far up your own butt, you can't answer? Just answer the question.

Again, I've done this. I'm not asking anyone to do anything, I have not lived out in my life. I've had people ask me what the heck I was doing numerous times. It never crossed my mind "Oh I shouldn't have to answer!"

Why? Because I'm a good person. I do not have my head shoved so far up my self centered ego, that I can't simply answer the questions.

It's that same mentally that results in people fighting with police, and end up shot or arrested, and then crying about it. NO, ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Stop escalating stuff.

By the way, it's all that same stupid mentality that "I don't have to answer to anyone!" is why so many men end up divorced, and wondering why they can't find a good wife.

No, you are garbage human being, that's why.

See, this is why people like me, are simply better people. When others asked me what I was doing, and where I as going... it never occurred to me "Well.... I should not have to answer that! I'm a full asshole, and I never should have to answer anyone!".

Never occurred to me. I just, like any adult human being with a sense of decency... Answered the questions asked, and was sent on my way with zero drama.

That's what separates men, form toddlers. Being a man, is not acting like stuck up caveman who doesn't have to answer anyone.

 

[Andylusion]

How sad for them, to be under the thumb of a racist.

Have you heard the expression that to a hammer everything looks like a nail?

Since every issue you see is race related...anyone who disagrees must be a racist. Shed your blinders. See again.

DEAD ON RIGHT.

 

[Polishprince]

no where near as bad as blacks MURDERING whites

Most white murder victims are murdered by whites. Most black murder victims are murdered by blacks. Your point?

hahahhahahah WRONG
blacks only 13% of the population...whites over 4 times that with 66%--yet:
white on black murders 229
black on white murders 500
!!!! booooom baby
undeniably blacks murder whites at a much, much higher rate

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

ucr.fbi.gov

I said that most white murder victims are killed by whites and most black victims are killed by blacks. This really shouldn`t be hard.

That is certainly true. Murderers like to stay in their own communities to commit their crimes, and blacks and whites are not equally distributed through every community.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

That doesn't sound right - the part about a private individual can stop you from leaving and question you.

It's a private road.

Imagine I live on a farm with a mile long driveway. As I drive in, I see you coming out. I position my truck so you can't proceed. I have every right to do that...it's my property and my driveway. I can also question you "who are you and what are you doing here?"

You don't have to answer...but you also can't force me to move. You CAN call the police...and THEY can ask me to move...or comed out and investigate. Totally legal.

Same idea here...it's a private road. That's why I don't understand why the driver didn't call the police.

Edit-these long quote streams are out of hand.

But this "driveway" road is a common road used by many others and one of those many others gave permission for me to be on that road. So how can you, as someone who had no knowledge of the permission given, lawfully detain me on that road by refusing to let me leave simply because you were not privy to the permission given?

Because I suspect there is a protocol for deliveries...and passcodes are for residents only. The use of the passcode in and of itself gave them probable cause...he shouldn't have had it...but he did. They wanted to know how he got it. You have to remember...this is all private property. It doesn't have to be about racism. Just the sign on the door off the van and the use of a passcode was all out may have taken...and the race of the driver was irrelevant.

Can you concede that this is possible?

Of course I can concede that it's possible, almost anything is possible however that doesn't mean it's the most likely explanation. And I understand security protocols and the concern that is caused when they are not followed.

So try to look at this as not just a single incident but a series of incidents. This is how I would attempt to gather information regarding what happened and why

1. At what point did the HOA agents determine that there was someone in the complex allegedly without
authorization?
a. Do they have a watchpoint setup where they monitor all trafficc
2. How did they discover that there was someone in the complex allegedly without authorization?
3. Once they realized this, did they know that the entity that had breached their security was in a delivery truck or only that someone other than a resident had used the passcode?
etc. etc. etc.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Stop. Stop being a prick. If someone asks you a question, what is it to you, to answer the question?

It's very simple. We're not required to under the law.

 

[Missourian]

That doesn't sound right - the part about a private individual can stop you from leaving and question you.

It's a private road.

Imagine I live on a farm with a mile long driveway. As I drive in, I see you coming out. I position my truck so you can't proceed. I have every right to do that...it's my property and my driveway. I can also question you "who are you and what are you doing here?"

You don't have to answer...but you also can't force me to move. You CAN call the police...and THEY can ask me to move...or comed out and investigate. Totally legal.

Same idea here...it's a private road. That's why I don't understand why the driver didn't call the police.

Edit-these long quote streams are out of hand.

But this "driveway" road is a common road used by many others and one of those many others gave permission for me to be on that road. So how can you, as someone who had no knowledge of the permission given, lawfully detain me on that road by refusing to let me leave simply because you were not privy to the permission given?

Because I suspect there is a protocol for deliveries...and passcodes are for residents only. The use of the passcode in and of itself gave them probable cause...he shouldn't have had it...but he did. They wanted to know how he got it. You have to remember...this is all private property. It doesn't have to be about racism. Just the sign on the door off the van and the use of a passcode was all out may have taken...and the race of the driver was irrelevant.

Can you concede that this is possible?

Of course I can concede that it's possible, almost anything is possible however that doesn't mean it's the most likely explanation. And I understand security protocols and the concern that is caused when they are not followed.

So try to look at this as not just a single incident but a series of incidents. This is how I would attempt to gather information regarding what happened and why

1. At what point did the HOA agents determine that there was someone in the complex allegedly without
authorization?
a. Do they have a watchpoint setup where they monitor all trafficc
2. How did they discover that there was someone in the complex allegedly without authorization?
3. Once they realized this, did they know that the entity that had breached their security was in a delivery truck or only that someone other than a resident had used the passcode?
etc. etc. etc.

All good questions. But...in all likelihood we (you, me and USMB) will never be privy to that information...those facts. We can only work with three information we have. Many have taken one fact...that the driver was of a certain race...and chosen that as the pivot point on which to build an argument...based on personal bias...or agenda/narrative...or they are true believers...that race is the basis of all decision making.

Most of the people replying to this thread wouldn't give a damn about it if the driver was white. Because that would be acceptable. It isn't racism to stop a white guy.

If it isn't racism to stop a white guy...it can't be racism to stop a black guy for the same reason. A white guy might get stopped 1,000 times a year asst this HOA and we never hear about it.

Jumping to the conclusion that it must be racism and there is no other possibility is a bias all it's own...IMO.

 

[Polishprince]

Stop. Stop being a prick. If someone asks you a question, what is it to you, to answer the question?

It's very simple. We're not required to under the law.

Sure, you have the right to remain silent.

But if you are in business, either for yourself or representing your employer whose name is on the side of your vehicle, it doesn't make much sense to be impolite. Mr. Miller left a bad taste in the mouth of the people in the subdivision, who will be less likely to buy their next ottoman from that store.

If I were his boss, I'd fire him for his faux pas in public relations.

Further, he's on PRIVATE property. If you are on private property, you should be willing and able to explain yourself if everyone on the property doesn't know that you are there.

 

[Polishprince]

If someone is working in office or a factory floor, and you see someone that is unfamiliar, walking on in, would you ask him what he's up to? How about if you were in your apartment, watching TV or something, and you suddenly saw someone in your bathroom? Would a terse explanation "I was just leaving" be satisfactory to you? Maybe he was sent by the landlord to fix the toilet or something but he didn't want to give you an explanation?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

That doesn't sound right - the part about a private individual can stop you from leaving and question you.

It's a private road.

Imagine I live on a farm with a mile long driveway. As I drive in, I see you coming out. I position my truck so you can't proceed. I have every right to do that...it's my property and my driveway. I can also question you "who are you and what are you doing here?"

You don't have to answer...but you also can't force me to move. You CAN call the police...and THEY can ask me to move...or comed out and investigate. Totally legal.

Same idea here...it's a private road. That's why I don't understand why the driver didn't call the police.

Edit-these long quote streams are out of hand.

But this "driveway" road is a common road used by many others and one of those many others gave permission for me to be on that road. So how can you, as someone who had no knowledge of the permission given, lawfully detain me on that road by refusing to let me leave simply because you were not privy to the permission given?

Because I suspect there is a protocol for deliveries...and passcodes are for residents only. The use of the passcode in and of itself gave them probable cause...he shouldn't have had it...but he did. They wanted to know how he got it. You have to remember...this is all private property. It doesn't have to be about racism. Just the sign on the door off the van and the use of a passcode was all out may have taken...and the race of the driver was irrelevant.

Can you concede that this is possible?

Of course I can concede that it's possible, almost anything is possible however that doesn't mean it's the most likely explanation. And I understand security protocols and the concern that is caused when they are not followed.

So try to look at this as not just a single incident but a series of incidents. This is how I would attempt to gather information regarding what happened and why

1. At what point did the HOA agents determine that there was someone in the complex allegedly without
authorization?
a. Do they have a watchpoint setup where they monitor all trafficc
2. How did they discover that there was someone in the complex allegedly without authorization?
3. Once they realized this, did they know that the entity that had breached their security was in a delivery truck or only that someone other than a resident had used the passcode?
etc. etc. etc.

All good questions. But...in all likelihood we (you, me and USMB) will never be privy to that information...those facts. We can only work with three information we have. Many have taken one fact...that the driver was of a certain race...and chosen that as the pivot point on which to build an argument...based on personal bias...or agenda/narrative...or they are true believers...that race is the basis of all decision making.

Most of the people replying to this thread wouldn't give a damn about it if the driver was white. Because that would be acceptable. It isn't racism to stop a white guy.

If it isn't racism to stop a white guy...it can't be racism to stop a black guy for the same reason. A white guy might get stopped 1,000 times a year asst this HOA and we never hear about it.

Jumping to the conclusion that it must be racism and there is no other possibility is a bias all it's own...IMO.

Are you unaware of the number of people on this message board alone who have readily admitted and stated unequivocally that if they see a black person in their neighborhood they consider them a criminal suspect? As long as there is a significant portion of the U.S. population who believes as they do and acts on it then we will continue to have these incidents.

What each of us views as "suspicious" depends on a lot of factors - our experiences with others of difference races, cultures, religions, etc., how much we are influenced by what we see and hear in the media, how educated/knowledgable we are and also by any training we may have had in relation to the those fields which include the detection of suspicious behavior.

So it's not the stopping the individuals that makes it racism or not, it's why they are viewed with suspicion in the first place. If they randomly stop white drivers and question then and let them pass but always stop black drivers or delay them longer or as in this case, prevent then from leaving, then yeah, the root cause may be racism.

If they had a stopped a couple of white drivers and blocked them to keep them from leaving, I would still be of the same opinion as I am with this driver - that the HOA agents ahad no lawful authority to demand the information from the drivers that they did and certainly were violating the law by detaining them against their willl. And remember, had the driver "trespassed" on one of the homeowners property by going around the blockade, it isn't exactly outside of the realm of possibility that the HOA agents would have tried to use that "crime" to send the police after him or complain to his boss, so he opted to stay right where he was until the situation got resolved.

 

[Polishprince]

Are you unaware of the number of people on this message board alone who have readily admitted and stated unequivocally that if they see a black person in their neighborhood they consider them a criminal suspect? As long as there is a significant portion of the U.S. population who believes as they do and acts on it then we will continue to have these incidents.

There are numerous communities in America that are virtually or literally 100% Honky. Its going to pique people's interest when someone of non-honky ethnicity drops in.

I'm sure that the neighbors would be peaking out their windows if I walked down the streets of Watts or Bed Stuy or numerous other Ghettos that the residents don't know me, too.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Sure, you have the right to remain silent.

This isn't a Miranda issue since they not police officers, far too many people demand things of people which they are not entitled to. And why are you blaming the victim for refusing to comply with an unauthorized demand?

And just for the record I do run a business and I am generally polite to everyone I encounter since I know it's easier to make your way through life by cooperating than resisting however, we can't continue to concede every little thing due to the issues of others and on some days, I'm simply unable to even when I know it will cause me inconvenience, or time, or money or possibly time dealing with the legal system.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Are you unaware of the number of people on this message board alone who have readily admitted and stated unequivocally that if they see a black person in their neighborhood they consider them a criminal suspect? As long as there is a significant portion of the U.S. population who believes as they do and acts on it then we will continue to have these incidents.

There are numerous communities in America that are virtually or literally 100% Honky. Its going to pique people's interest when someone of non-honky ethnicity drops in.

I'm sure that the neighbors would be peaking out their windows if I walked down the streets of Watts or Bed Stuy or numerous other Ghettos that the residents don't know me, too.

Peaking out the windows is one thing, running up to you, demanding to know who you are and what you're doing in their neighborhood and then blocking your vehicle to prevent you from leaving is something entirely different.